How Young is too Young to Date?

Off Topic
81

[quote]jj-dude wrote:
P.S. I didn’t answer your question: How young is too young? The youngest age-wise you can date is 17. Federal law only recognizes 18 as the legal age of consent and a lawyer friend of mine once told me of a client who got (edit almost) into federal trouble with texting his 17 year old girlfriend. Since the texts went to an out of state server then back, it became a federal matter. He was of age of consent, but that doesn’t matter.

– jj[/quote]

I know threads tend to take on a life of their own, but I asked more as a social propriety question, i.e., how would an ordinary person tend to view the situation from a ‘social mores’ standpoint? This particular situation involved someone who is presently 20, but since I work around teenagers, the social stigmas involved with the age dynamics are unique.

It was of interest to me since I work with adolescents as a high school teacher. If people on here were to view the situation as overly creepy or socially inappropriate, a similar reaction is likely to be the case locally, which could cause legitimate problems for me at work, up to and possibly including termination as the absolute worst case scenario.

82

[quote]JR249 wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:

And I pretty much said what anyone of us says here has no bearing on the op in my post. But, he did ask for a bunch of strangers opinions, so here they are. Regardless of how he takes them.
[/quote]

I wanted to have an unbiased gauge as to whether or not ordinary persons would find it overly creepy, because I may be one of the few people whose professional career could be adversely impacted by overly negative public opinion due to working directly with adolescents. It wasn’t exactly a question that was good to circulate among co-workers or HR/admin, so this venue actually proved beneficial.[/quote]

Yeah, I get that with work. That does make sense, as you said earlier asking around the workplace might “raise a red flag”.

83

[quote]Silyak wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:
Your 34 and she’s 20? Can you not find someone your own age? I know that sounds really harsh, but I mean really. If I was 34 I would want to date an adult, not a kid. Im 21 myself, and thats something I would never do. But, what ever you think is best for yourself, do it. Don’t worry about what bunch of strangers think on the internet.[/quote]

How old are you? Can you say for sure what you’ll feel in the future? And besides, what YOU feel has little bearing on what HE feels…

If he want’s to fuck 19 year old midget strippers with orange hair when he’s 75, that’s HIS RIGHT… As long as it isn’t breaking any laws or infringing on another person’s rights, what does anyone else have to say about what another person wants? It’s none of our business…[/quote]

This is true, I really can’t say how I would feel in the future. But, I would like to think that I would at least not date a 20 year old at 34. And I pretty much said what anyone of us says here has no bearing on the op in my post. But, he did ask for a bunch of strangers opinions, so here they are. Regardless of how he takes them.
[/quote]
If a 20 year old woman is old enough to date a 20 year old man, she’s old enough to date a 34 year old (or a 60 year old for that matter). Either she is mature enough to make relationship decisions for herself or she isn’t.

There is no evidence to suggest that as men age they have shifting standards for attractiveness in women. If a woman is attractive to a twenty year old man, it’s not odd that she would be attractive to a 34 year old man.

A 34 year old man in good shape could be in fantastic shape and would likely have more power and status than a 20 year old man, so it’s not odd that a woman would find the 34 year old attractive.

One would hope that the 34 year old is capable of making his own relationship decisions.

So two consenting adults are choosing to have a relationship and it’s not odd that they are attracted to each other. What bothers you? [/quote]

I think you kind of took my opinion in a different light than I originally intended. I don’t mean that a 34 year old couldn’t pull a 20 something, or even that if the younger of the two wasn’t mature enough for it, that the relationship shouldn’t happen. I merely gave my opinion on it. I simply said that I don’t think that is something I would do, but I never said what the OP should do. I simply gave my opinion on the matter to let him deduct his own opinions from it.

84

[quote]Young33 wrote:

[quote]Silyak wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:
Your 34 and she’s 20? Can you not find someone your own age? I know that sounds really harsh, but I mean really. If I was 34 I would want to date an adult, not a kid. Im 21 myself, and thats something I would never do. But, what ever you think is best for yourself, do it. Don’t worry about what bunch of strangers think on the internet.[/quote]

How old are you? Can you say for sure what you’ll feel in the future? And besides, what YOU feel has little bearing on what HE feels…

If he want’s to fuck 19 year old midget strippers with orange hair when he’s 75, that’s HIS RIGHT… As long as it isn’t breaking any laws or infringing on another person’s rights, what does anyone else have to say about what another person wants? It’s none of our business…[/quote]

This is true, I really can’t say how I would feel in the future. But, I would like to think that I would at least not date a 20 year old at 34. And I pretty much said what anyone of us says here has no bearing on the op in my post. But, he did ask for a bunch of strangers opinions, so here they are. Regardless of how he takes them.
[/quote]
If a 20 year old woman is old enough to date a 20 year old man, she’s old enough to date a 34 year old (or a 60 year old for that matter). Either she is mature enough to make relationship decisions for herself or she isn’t.

There is no evidence to suggest that as men age they have shifting standards for attractiveness in women. If a woman is attractive to a twenty year old man, it’s not odd that she would be attractive to a 34 year old man.

A 34 year old man in good shape could be in fantastic shape and would likely have more power and status than a 20 year old man, so it’s not odd that a woman would find the 34 year old attractive.

One would hope that the 34 year old is capable of making his own relationship decisions.

So two consenting adults are choosing to have a relationship and it’s not odd that they are attracted to each other. What bothers you? [/quote]

I think you kind of took my opinion in a different light than I originally intended. I don’t mean that a 34 year old couldn’t pull a 20 something, or even that if the younger of the two wasn’t mature enough for it, that the relationship shouldn’t happen. I merely gave my opinion on it. I simply said that I don’t think that is something I would do, but I never said what the OP should do. I simply gave my opinion on the matter to let him deduct his own opinions from it.[/quote]

But you do say that you would like to think that you wouldn’t go after a 20 year old at 34. That to me implies you think there is something wrong with it. What do you see wrong with it?

85

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]jj-dude wrote:
Federal law only recognizes 18 as the legal age of consent and a lawyer friend of mine once told me of a client who got (edit almost) into federal trouble with texting his 17 year old girlfriend. Since the texts went to an out of state server then back, it became a federal matter. He was of age of consent, but that doesn’t matter.
– jj[/quote]

For what purpose?

State law generally supplies the age-of-consent rules to sexual contact. Exceptions might be child pornography laws and limited circumstances involving prostitution, sex trafficing or cases that involve state border crossings. I suspect “texting” involved images of minors, i.e., child pornography, not mere consent to sexual contact. [/quote]

As I understand this – and this was related to me basically over beers, and I am emphatically not a lawyer – the person in question was sexting his GF. Age of consent in Illinois is 17 and she was 17 but he was 18 or 19. That federal charges could be imposed because of where the network traffic was routed was the loophole that let the state make the threat. Think about that. The salient point of this is that if you are texting the person sitting next to you, you still might be breaking federal law.

– jj

86

[quote]JR249 wrote:

[quote]jj-dude wrote:
P.S. I didn’t answer your question: How young is too young? The youngest age-wise you can date is 17. Federal law only recognizes 18 as the legal age of consent and a lawyer friend of mine once told me of a client who got (edit almost) into federal trouble with texting his 17 year old girlfriend. Since the texts went to an out of state server then back, it became a federal matter. He was of age of consent, but that doesn’t matter.

– jj[/quote]

I know threads tend to take on a life of their own, but I asked more as a social propriety question, i.e., how would an ordinary person tend to view the situation from a social more standpoint? This particular situation involved someone who is presently 20, but since I work around teenagers, the social stigmas involved with the age dynamics are unique.

It was of interest to me since I work with adolescents as a high school teacher. If people on here were to view the situation as overly creepy or socially inappropriate, a similar reaction is likely to be the case locally, which could cause legitimate problems for me at work, up to and possibly including termination as the absolute worst case scenario.
[/quote]

My direct experience is that it really is a non-issue since people aren’t really going to know what your ages are unless you run up and tell them. I look a bit young for my age and she deports herself maturely so the assumption is that while there is an age gap, it doesn’t matter.

Your second paragraph though is the key: Keep your personal public lives absolutely separate. It is absolutely nobody’s business what you do outside of work and unless there is some unavoidable reason (like she works with you) there is no reason for anyone to even know about her. Even if she does work there, again, nobody has to know anything unless you blab it. Keeping things really low key does tend to make people respect your privacy. Do not give people objects of curiosity…

See if you have a lady friend you are dating and are sincere about, that’s nice. If they get the impression you are on the make for underage girls or there is anything even remotely predatory going on you will have Hell to pay.

Hope this helps,

– jj

87

[quote]Silyak wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:

[quote]Silyak wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:
Your 34 and she’s 20? Can you not find someone your own age? I know that sounds really harsh, but I mean really. If I was 34 I would want to date an adult, not a kid. Im 21 myself, and thats something I would never do. But, what ever you think is best for yourself, do it. Don’t worry about what bunch of strangers think on the internet.[/quote]

How old are you? Can you say for sure what you’ll feel in the future? And besides, what YOU feel has little bearing on what HE feels…

If he want’s to fuck 19 year old midget strippers with orange hair when he’s 75, that’s HIS RIGHT… As long as it isn’t breaking any laws or infringing on another person’s rights, what does anyone else have to say about what another person wants? It’s none of our business…[/quote]

This is true, I really can’t say how I would feel in the future. But, I would like to think that I would at least not date a 20 year old at 34. And I pretty much said what anyone of us says here has no bearing on the op in my post. But, he did ask for a bunch of strangers opinions, so here they are. Regardless of how he takes them.
[/quote]
If a 20 year old woman is old enough to date a 20 year old man, she’s old enough to date a 34 year old (or a 60 year old for that matter). Either she is mature enough to make relationship decisions for herself or she isn’t.

There is no evidence to suggest that as men age they have shifting standards for attractiveness in women. If a woman is attractive to a twenty year old man, it’s not odd that she would be attractive to a 34 year old man.

A 34 year old man in good shape could be in fantastic shape and would likely have more power and status than a 20 year old man, so it’s not odd that a woman would find the 34 year old attractive.

One would hope that the 34 year old is capable of making his own relationship decisions.

So two consenting adults are choosing to have a relationship and it’s not odd that they are attracted to each other. What bothers you? [/quote]

I think you kind of took my opinion in a different light than I originally intended. I don’t mean that a 34 year old couldn’t pull a 20 something, or even that if the younger of the two wasn’t mature enough for it, that the relationship shouldn’t happen. I merely gave my opinion on it. I simply said that I don’t think that is something I would do, but I never said what the OP should do. I simply gave my opinion on the matter to let him deduct his own opinions from it.[/quote]

But you do say that you would like to think that you wouldn’t go after a 20 year old at 34. That to me implies you think there is something wrong with it. What do you see wrong with it?[/quote]

For me personally, it would just be the age and what that entails with it. Granted it’s not always the case, but 9/10 times they’re simply not going to be mature to your level yet(at 34) and even if they are “mature” they still haven’t even had a chance to have the experiences and gain the knowledge you have yet.

I mean I am amazed at my self how much I’ve matured/learned/changed in the past 3 years(18-21). From that viewpoint I think (most of the time) the younger one will just not be matured enough, but that is also a personal as thing: as far as what one considers mature and how mature ones self is.

But, also I try not to speak in black and white, as nothing is ever that simple or cut and dry. This chick very well could be mature and handle situations like someone many years her senior. However, I just think that is a rarity. Not impossible, just rare.

88

Also, another thought popped into my head. If you have to ask, you probably already know the answer. I mean, if you value your job(if it was otherwise you wouldn’t be asking) it’s best not to chance it I think. Regardless of the social reaction/opinions of this thread, I think if you have to ask, then it’s probably a little too risky for your job and reputation.

89

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:
Your 34 and she’s 20? Can you not find someone your own age? I know that sounds really harsh, but I mean really. If I was 34 I would want to date an adult, not a kid. Im 21 myself, and thats something I would never do. But, what ever you think is best for yourself, do it. Don’t worry about what bunch of strangers think on the internet.[/quote]

If he want’s to fuck 19 year old midget strippers with orange hair when he’s 75, .[/quote]
This is MattyXL’s dream right here.

90

[quote]Young33 wrote:
For me personally, it would just be the age and what that entails with it. Granted it’s not always the case, but 9/10 times they’re simply not going to be mature to your level yet(at 34) and even if they are “mature” they still haven’t even had a chance to have the experiences and gain the knowledge you have yet.[/quote]

Which is where you can provide experiences and share knowledge.

People change over time, no matter how young, old, mature or immature they are. Experiences change people and time changes people. Dating is just a way to share those experiences with someone else; you “mature” together, building a set of common experiences, and changing together.

In fact I’d almost say that openness to new experiences and new ideas is one of the things that makes younger women appealing, from a purely platonic sense.

When you start putting things into terms like “not mature enough”, what exactly do you mean? If she respects you and is respectful herself, how much more mature does she need to be?

91

uh, a mature girl under the age of 26?

YEAH RIGHT !!!

92

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:
For me personally, it would just be the age and what that entails with it. Granted it’s not always the case, but 9/10 times they’re simply not going to be mature to your level yet(at 34) and even if they are “mature” they still haven’t even had a chance to have the experiences and gain the knowledge you have yet.[/quote]

Which is where you can provide experiences and share knowledge.

People change over time, no matter how young, old, mature or immature they are. Experiences change people and time changes people. Dating is just a way to share those experiences with someone else; you “mature” together, building a set of common experiences, and changing together.

In fact I’d almost say that openness to new experiences and new ideas is one of the things that makes younger women appealing, from a purely platonic sense.

When you start putting things into terms like “not mature enough”, what exactly do you mean? If she respects you and is respectful herself, how much more mature does she need to be?[/quote]

That’s an interesting way to look at it, I(obviously) never even thought of it that way.

Maturity, yes I could see it as respect, both to herself and others. But, I also think it can be interpersonal interactions. The way she deals with others, both in conflict and mutual agreement. Or, simply situations where she faces difficulty. I simply think that the way a young women and older women would deal with such things would be completely different.

93

[quote]Claudan wrote:
uh, a mature girl under the age of 26?

YEAH RIGHT !!! [/quote]

Actually, by the time my wife was 25 she had done hospice care on both her grandfather and her father (really sad story with brain cancer). Guys (and girls) her age she found pretty much insufferably sheltered and petty. They were still obsessing about who as dating who, were sort of kinda of committed to worthy social causes if it didn’t interfere with their drinking schedules and had no depth of character to appreciate the people around them or the world. In short, they were arrested cases (in graduate school to boot) of adolescent selfishness.

So yeah, it is certainly possible. Depends on life experiences, upbringing (did your family think old folks were venerable or just a pain in the ass?) and character.

– jj

94

[quote]jj-dude wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]jj-dude wrote:
Federal law only recognizes 18 as the legal age of consent and a lawyer friend of mine once told me of a client who got (edit almost) into federal trouble with texting his 17 year old girlfriend. Since the texts went to an out of state server then back, it became a federal matter. He was of age of consent, but that doesn’t matter.
– jj[/quote]

For what purpose?

State law generally supplies the age-of-consent rules to sexual contact. Exceptions might be child pornography laws and limited circumstances involving prostitution, sex trafficing or cases that involve state border crossings. I suspect “texting” involved images of minors, i.e., child pornography, not mere consent to sexual contact. [/quote]

As I understand this – and this was related to me basically over beers, and I am emphatically not a lawyer – the person in question was sexting his GF. Age of consent in Illinois is 17 and she was 17 but he was 18 or 19. That federal charges could be imposed because of where the network traffic was routed was the loophole that let the state make the threat. Think about that. The salient point of this is that if you are texting the person sitting next to you, you still might be breaking federal law.

– jj[/quote]
Sounds like a good bar story, but a couple things are missing. First, sexting is not illegal unless you have nude pictures of minors. As far as I am aware, age of consent doesn’t apply to child pornography anyways. If she’s under 18, it’s child pornography. It doesn’t really matter what state you are in.

If they were having sex in Illinois and they said that sex was now governed by federal law because they also communicated across state lines, that seems like a very weak argument and the person in question needs a new lawyer. Sex with a minor isn’t even a federal crime.

Also, you mention a theft charge that the person involved pleaded guilty to. So, basically, I feel like this is something that sounds worse than it is because a lot of details were left out.

95

If it’s just sexual, and if it’s legal I say play ball. I’m in a band and we bag young (legal) chicks all day every day. Nothing beats young innocent tender poonani. Now, if you want a relationship, it’s best to stay within a certain range. But given that men tend to prize youth and beauty above all, I tend to find wisdom with the half your age plus 7 rule.

96

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
As long as you are not violating any laws, who gives a shit?

I date women in their early 20’s all the time. Generally there is a sweet spot with young sophisticated, intelligent, attractive women: around age 22 - 24 they get tired of dealing with young, stupid, poor, immature, poorly read, never traveled anywhere, etc… guys their age and long for a mature, seasoned man who can open up their world a little. That’s when I swoop right in, "how YOU doin’? <<>>.

I’ll take them to a few nice restaurants, jazz clubs, maybe a bed and breakfast out in “wine country” and I’ll have them on the hook for months. No one has ever been rude about the age difference. Every once in a while the girl will feel a little self conscious and express some discomfort dating someone twice her age, at which point I give her the gift of missing me for a little bit. Simple.

Some of them are more mature than others. And they tend to be liberal (which leads to some very interesting conversations!). But at the end of the day, there’s nothing like nailing a woman in her early 20’s. It’s the definition of “WINNING” for a man in his 40’s.[/quote]

+1 this post. But I’d say late teens is fair game too. 18+ and I’m on it like a ninja.

97

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I think you’re doing the right thing. My field is similarly uptight and until changing jobs and contexts (from working as a children’s therapist in community mental health to working in a medical practice) I found even posting on TNation risky as a female, though if I were male it wouldn’t matter.

It’s not worth your career.[/quote]

I don’t understand why anyone would choose a career that they could lose over something they did in their private lives off hours. WTF kinda bullshit is that?

How is it anyone’s business what you do on the internet ON YOUR TIME?

If you got fired over that (or for dating an adult female who happens to be younger), couldn’t you sue your employer for wrongful termination? I mean, what is the justification for firing someone who doesn’t break the law or who dates someone unaffiliated with their employer, but who happens to be younger?

Like seriously, why on earth would you “professionals” allow yourself to be controlled like that? Who the fuck are they to control you? And why would you submit to said control?[/quote]

I don’t have answers to the questions about why people would care, but they do. Why I do the work is that I find satisfaction and meaning in it. I also have a great deal of fun doing it. [/quote]I’m sure you’re great at what you do. And I’m sure it’s stressful. Which is why I think you should be able to go to a bar and have a drink if you want to without fearing for your career. That is pretty ridiculous. You all need to organize.[quote]

In speculating about the whys of the attitudes I would remind you that “legal” and “moral” are not always the same thing, and even if “moral” isn’t at play “wise” may be. I was willing to accompany my ex-boyfriend to his favorite dive bar occasionally when I worked a distance away. When I took a job closer I no longer wished to be seen there. He thought it was stupid. I get that. But it is what it is.
[/quote]So you felt that your job was at risk if someone saw you at a BAR? Really? And you chalk that up to “it is what it is”? That doesn’t strike you as a “tad” bit oppressive? But it would be OK if you were a man, right? Dude, THAT’s the kind of discrimination that I feel women should be fighting for, cuz if that’s legitimate, it’s BULLSHIT. Why are you not up in arms against this double standard? I mean, that directly affects YOU…[quote]

No sense debating the age difference - we’ve been 'round that block before on these forums. I find that age difference distasteful and would have at 20, other people don’t. [/quote]

The age difference isn’t the issue, the issue is that just because someone finds something “distasteful”, they can cost a person their career. Last time I checked this is a free country… If you go to work, do a good job and go home, who gives a shit what you do as long as you are not breaking the law? I mean, you guys aren’t publicly elected officials or anything. And he’s a teacher and you’re a psychologist (or something like that), so it’s not like you’re bringing home a shit ton of money (not a judgement just a fact)…

Why deal with that level of unjustified scrutiny? I mean it’s 2014… We have an African American president, openly gay congressmen, but EmilyQ might lose her job if she’s seen at a dive bar and the OP might lose his job if he’s seen out with a younger woman who NOT a former student? You guys are fucking crazy to put up with that kind of bullshit. I’d sue the shit out of an employer who terminated me for such reasons.
[/quote]

I’ve been thinking about this as I’ve gone about my life. I think for me one of the issues with the dive bar is that it would potentially have put me in a weird social context with the parents of my clients. In the sort of place I normally frequent (restaurant/grill type places, nicer pubs) I’m hanging out with the people I’m with. Dive bars are not necessarily that way. Am I going to be drinking up with the parents of my clients who have substance abuse issues? And then Tuesday at 3 suggest that they reorder their priorities?

I think the OP may face similarly difficult issues socially. Will his almost-twenty-year-old girl be hanging out with friends a year or two younger? Will she take OP to parties with her, where her friends’ younger siblings will be present?

Lastly, I’ve said before that I am not a political animal. I have no particular interest in dive bars or much of anything else others might view as morally suspect. I like my job and have made peace with my pay.

I’m going to a school meeting tomorrow morning to push back at school administrators who are isolating a young client of mine who is exhibiting psychotic symptoms. She has been put in a room alone and is being educated via Skype. She apparently got in trouble for waving to classmates via video. I am not supposed to attend these meetings because I can’t bill for them through my current employer, but I will fight over the issue if anyone realizes I’ve gone. I will fight with the school until they show some compassion and then I will undoubtedly have to defend myself when the school calls my employer with ruffled feathers. That, to me, is a fight worth fighting. There is only so much time in a day. Defending my God-given right to get drunk at a hole in the wall just doesn’t make the grade.

98

How old is too old?

If the grass has grown, its time to play.

99

[quote]orion wrote:
How old is too old?

If the grass has grown, its time to play.

[/quote]

Haha

if she bleeds, she breeds?

100

[quote]Young33 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
How old is too old?

If the grass has grown, its time to play.

[/quote]

Haha

if she bleeds, she breeds?[/quote]

Actually, for most of human history, that was true.