How To Make a Terrorist

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Looking at the 9/11 bombers and the higher-ups in al Queda, apparently you make a terrorist by starting with people with at least some money and at least middle-class backgrounds, give them access to western educations, and then have the West do everything in its power to avoid criticizing radical Muslim rhetoric because you don’t wish to offend anyone.
[/quote]

The recruiting is a bit different for attacks on the West, I’d imagine. But most of the bombers in the middle east itself (blowing up school buses and the like) are usually young men without jobs, with little chance of getting married or being able to support a family. The extremists provide what amounts to a welfare program, and by steps ensnare the young man. After his death, he is promised his family will be taken care of.

For a very, very interesting take on this, get a copy of one of Nelly Lahoud’s books. Her thesis is that we’ve allowed the radical islamists to frame the debate in a way that is incommensurable with liberalism as a separate secular value. Interesting stuff.

42

[quote]nephorm wrote:

The recruiting is a bit different for attacks on the West, I’d imagine. But most of the bombers in the middle east itself (blowing up school buses and the like) are usually young men without jobs, with little chance of getting married or being able to support a family. The extremists provide what amounts to a welfare program, and by steps ensnare the young man. After his death, he is promised his family will be taken care of.

For a very, very interesting take on this, get a copy of one of Nelly Lahoud’s books. Her thesis is that we’ve allowed the radical islamists to frame the debate in a way that is incommensurable with liberalism as a separate secular value. Interesting stuff.[/quote]

I’ve no doubt you’re right about that – and I do think it’s important to differentiate between those who are recruited to essentially blow themselves up at or near their own homes, and those who are the hard-core terrorists and planners. The latter are far more worrisome to me, at least at the moment.

I should check out that book though – sounds quite interesting.

43

[quote]hedo wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
There’s a difference between understanding the motives of a terrorist, and sympathising with a terrorist. This is not subtle, it 's obvious. But way to subtle for quite a few people on this list.

Sun Tzu taught us that it’s important to know your ennemy. He was a wise man. That’s why his teachings are still read to this day.

Other generals were convinced he got it wrong and thought it would be wiser to storm in, kill them all and let god sort them out… But these generals remain nameless, forgotten in history, their teachings are not studied.

They seem to have a hell of a lot of followers though.

Grant
Pershing
Patton
MacArthur
Montgomery
Zukov
Abrams
Schwartzkopf
Franks

Tzu had it right for his times. The folks listed above have been studied and hardly forgotten. They got it right for their times.

The US hasn’t “killed them all and let God sort them out since MacArthur”. The current strategy, simplisticly put, is to get inside the command and control structures of our enemy, eliminate the C&C, and then attack them with overwhelming force at their weakest points. In other words tip the balance in your favor.

What strategy were you referring to? Perhaps you could list a Field Manual reference?
[/quote]
I was talking about the “outrage” when someone tried to point out the motives of the terrorists.

It’s probably just the “right to remain ignorant”?

But perhaps you’re implying that Sun Tzu’s teaching don’t apply anymore. I’m convinced none of the generals on your list agree with you.

44

[quote]optprime wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
No leftist was happy when 9/11 happened. There were far too many people who were just trying to make a life for themselves and their families for any attack on them to be warranted. In fact, all anarchists and socialists immediately condemned it.

One of these two options must be true about this statement.

A. You are being dishonest.

B. You are simply ignorant about that which you speak.

I think it’s probably B, but either way, not good. [/quote]

You find a few morons everywhere. Hell, I bet if you look hard enough, you’d find a few on this list. Some people are gleeing over the riots in France. I know, I know, that’s hard to imagine.

45

[quote]nephorm wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
Looking at the 9/11 bombers and the higher-ups in al Queda, apparently you make a terrorist by starting with people with at least some money and at least middle-class backgrounds, give them access to western educations, and then have the West do everything in its power to avoid criticizing radical Muslim rhetoric because you don’t wish to offend anyone.

The recruiting is a bit different for attacks on the West, I’d imagine. But most of the bombers in the middle east itself (blowing up school buses and the like) are usually young men without jobs, with little chance of getting married or being able to support a family. The extremists provide what amounts to a welfare program, and by steps ensnare the young man. After his death, he is promised his family will be taken care of.

For a very, very interesting take on this, get a copy of one of Nelly Lahoud’s books. Her thesis is that we’ve allowed the radical islamists to frame the debate in a way that is incommensurable with liberalism as a separate secular value. Interesting stuff.[/quote]

Don’t forget they are apparantly drugging the bombers in Iraq.

46

[quote]Professor X wrote:
AZMojo wrote:
How did a thread about terrorists turn into a gay marriage debate?

I mentioned it once in reference to why religion can sometimes lead to debates not based in logic and it blew up from there because a certain poster above is looking for fault in absolutely anything that I type.[/quote]

No fun when this ball gets thrown back at you huh?

47

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Wow, I think thunder actually struck a huge nerve with all you liberals. Why don’t you all just regroup and admit you just had your ass kicked intelectually. Very well thought out replies thunder, it couldn’t have been put better.

No, what strikes a nerve is when people ingest the President’s garbage propaganda about how innocent this country is, and then spew it back out without proof other than, “George I says so”. [/quote]

George Bush said all that that Thunder said? Wow. He should let Thunder talk more often.

Its okay to agree with things that are right regardless of who says them. Not everything Bush says is wrong, just like everything Clinton said was not wrong. Use YOUR mind.

48

[quote]btm62 wrote:

No fun when this ball gets thrown back at you huh?[/quote]

You clearly don’t know me. I enjoy playing ball. I just hate limp wrists.

49

Wow, talk about a crappy thread. Let me guess, they hate our freedom?

Morons.

50

[quote]vroom wrote:

Morons.[/quote]

Specifically, who are the morons, Vroom?

Before I reply, I want to be clear, so the rest of us don’t have to be audience to your usual “I wasn’t talking about you…I was only kidding” backpedaling.

51

Well, since I have no room for backpedalling, you, for one.

52

[quote]vroom wrote:
Well, since I have no room for backpedalling, you, for one.
[/quote]

Poor Vroom.

So the days of Vroom’s pretentious Pseudo-Intellectual posturing have come to an end, not with a bang, but a whimper. The best you have to offer is to call me names.

My expectations of you engaging in a debate and offering something other than smugness or cant has dropped again - but can you have negative expectations?

Enjoy irrelevance.

53

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
hedo wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
There’s a difference between understanding the motives of a terrorist, and sympathising with a terrorist. This is not subtle, it 's obvious. But way to subtle for quite a few people on this list.

Sun Tzu taught us that it’s important to know your ennemy. He was a wise man. That’s why his teachings are still read to this day.

Other generals were convinced he got it wrong and thought it would be wiser to storm in, kill them all and let god sort them out… But these generals remain nameless, forgotten in history, their teachings are not studied.

They seem to have a hell of a lot of followers though.

Grant
Pershing
Patton
MacArthur
Montgomery
Zukov
Abrams
Schwartzkopf
Franks

Tzu had it right for his times. The folks listed above have been studied and hardly forgotten. They got it right for their times.

The US hasn’t “killed them all and let God sort them out since MacArthur”. The current strategy, simplisticly put, is to get inside the command and control structures of our enemy, eliminate the C&C, and then attack them with overwhelming force at their weakest points. In other words tip the balance in your favor.

What strategy were you referring to? Perhaps you could list a Field Manual reference?

I was talking about the “outrage” when someone tried to point out the motives of the terrorists.

It’s probably just the “right to remain ignorant”?

But perhaps you’re implying that Sun Tzu’s teaching don’t apply anymore. I’m convinced none of the generals on your list agree with you.[/quote]

Read much or studied any of those guys wreckless? Just curious why you would say that.

Leave the left and right shit out of it for a second and talk strategy.

Claify the kill them all let God sort em out comment if you please.

54

[quote]Poor Vroom.

So the days of Vroom’s pretentious Pseudo-Intellectual posturing have come to an end, not with a bang, but a whimper. The best you have to offer is to call me names.

My expectations of you engaging in a debate and offering something other than smugness or cant has dropped again - but can you have negative expectations?

Enjoy irrelevance.[/quote]

Speaking of pseudo-intellectual posing… nice tripe.

Anyway, like others, your posts are from the point of view of a westerner.

While I don’t claim to deeply understand how the Arabic world views us, it certainly isn’t going to be through western eyes and values as are obviously central to the posts you and others have made in this thread.

Until you can at least wrap your head around the fact that other people have other viewpoints, that rightly or wrongly they have different ideas and values, you’ll find it very difficult to come up with reasonable statements.

Instead, we hear that they hate our freedom. What a crock of shit. Ignorant viewpoints like that just serve to widen the gulf between the basic civilizations involved.

Anyhow, don’t bother falling back on terms like appeasement or anything like that. I’ve repeatedly called for the use of force as well as other means to combat terrorism. There is no appeasement in my statements.

Thankfully, we are only at war with a small number of fundamentalists, not with Islam, the Muslim world, or the Arab world. Hopefully we can keep it that way. Spreading blanket hatred and ignorance isn’t going to work in anyones favor.

55

[quote]Professor X wrote:
btm62 wrote:

No fun when this ball gets thrown back at you huh?

You clearly don’t know me. I enjoy playing ball. I just hate limp wrists.[/quote]

I know you all too well. I’ve read enough of your off topic, word twisting, ignore the point posts. You remind me of the Monty Python sketch where the guy goes into a room and says, “I’ve come for an argument.” You offer just as much substance as that guy in the sketch. As far as your wrist problem goes, maybe try a search on this site. I’m sure you can find some exercises to help you out.

56

[quote]btm62 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
btm62 wrote:

No fun when this ball gets thrown back at you huh?

You clearly don’t know me. I enjoy playing ball. I just hate limp wrists.

I know you all too well. I’ve read enough of your off topic, word twisting, ignore the point posts. You remind me of the Monty Python sketch where the guy goes into a room and says, “I’ve come for an argument.” You offer just as much substance as that guy in the sketch. As far as your wrist problem goes, maybe try a search on this site. I’m sure you can find some exercises to help you out. [/quote]

You talk a lot for someone who offers no substance at all or even a decent point of view. That seems to be the curse of ignorance, however. Thanks for your contribution, by the way. I rate it right next to “decent shits I’ve taken while reading the Victoria Secret’s catalogue”. Please post more.

57

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I rate it right next to “decent shits I’ve taken while reading the Victoria Secret’s catalogue”. [/quote]

I don’t know about you, but I don’t shit while reading the Victoria Secret’s catalogue.

Oh, gotcha… two pleasures in one! I knew that medical degree of yours was good for something! Pardon me while I go to the bathroom…

58

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Oh, gotcha… two pleasures in one! I knew that medical degree of yours was good for something! Pardon me while I go to the bathroom…[/quote]

Careful with that prostate, neph, it’s delicate.

I’d just like to pipe up and say that this thread is BS in that there is no room for tolerating terrorism. Any lefties who try to play this off as “oh they didn’t have a choice, it’s USA’s fault that they hate us enough to BLOW THEMSELVES UP…” WTF?

C’mon guys, let’s not forget what liberalism is all about, huh? In your rush to condemn anything that the right has to say, you are making complete assholes of yourselves. This matter is something that we should all agree with. Dangerous people should not be handled with kid gloves. You do not walk up to a snarling rottweiler and try to give it a kiss.

Right now, we have assholes who train snarling rottweilers and let them loose on the neighborhood to bite our kids. Wake the fuck up! You put the damn dogs down. You capture the assholes who are doing this. And when you are hauling that dickhead animal trainer off to jail, and he cries about how it’s not his fault that he made the dogs that way you call bullshit on him. CALL BULLSHIT.

What happened to standing up for freedom and liberty? What happened to valuing the ideals of democracy, responsibility to our fellow man, and indeed – the rest of the world? What happened to making the whole world a better place? I swear to God if another one of you lefty apologists get on here and says it’s Bush’s fault one more time I’m going to post another goddamn mile-long sermon about how pissed off I am that the liberal movement has turned into the party of pussies. KNOCK IT OFF!!

We are stonger than this. Whining about Bush? I suspect he might very well be an evil, manipulative asshole, but saying that it’s his fault we have terrorism is complete bullshit. Bush is doing the right thing here. In my analogy of the snarling dogs running through the neighborhood, you guys would have us lock ourselves in our houses and hide? FUCK that! You stand up to oppression… don’t condone it! What kind of “liberal” are you that you don’t fight against the enemies of liberty?

And you know who the enemies of liberty are. And I better not hear “the President of the United States.” I know you hate him, but that’s no reason to spew bullshit about the guy. He’ll be gone soon, don’t worry.

59

[quote]Professor X wrote:
btm62 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
btm62 wrote:

No fun when this ball gets thrown back at you huh?

You clearly don’t know me. I enjoy playing ball. I just hate limp wrists.

I know you all too well. I’ve read enough of your off topic, word twisting, ignore the point posts. You remind me of the Monty Python sketch where the guy goes into a room and says, “I’ve come for an argument.” You offer just as much substance as that guy in the sketch. As far as your wrist problem goes, maybe try a search on this site. I’m sure you can find some exercises to help you out.

You talk a lot for someone who offers no substance at all or even a decent point of view. That seems to be the curse of ignorance, however. Thanks for your contribution, by the way. I rate it right next to “decent shits I’ve taken while reading the Victoria Secret’s catalogue”. Please post more.[/quote]

I didn’t think my reply was that lengthy. Your scatological reference certainly speaks to how clever you really are. Your right however, I do feel a little bad about having nothing to offer this thread, other than to jump in and give you a little taste of what its like to try have an intelligent discussion with you on the forum. I would imagine that if you flushed yourself along with your decent shit, we wouldn’t know the difference. Try a woman. Much better than a catalog and easier on the wrists.

60

Loth,

Do you really see anyone suggesting that terrorism be tolerated?

If so, why don’t you point it out.

There is a difference between understanding the mechanisms that promote terrorism and suggesting tolerance for it.

There might be some wing nuts in the real world suggesting so, but I don’t think anyone in here has a tolerance viewpoint.