This makes sense in most instances, I don’t think abortion is one of them. Before you get an abortion, you must first get pregnant. Getting pregnant always involves “unsafe” sex. In almost all abortion cases a woman participated willingly in that. And then after her fault, she waits 5 months until a human being inside her is sentient and then she decides to kill it. I don’t think the right to bodily autonomy trumps the right to life as it is not only any life but a life she willingly produced and let live up to a point when it is a human being (again my opinion when life begins).
I’m not against abortion per se, but after a sentient human is formed. Up to 3 months there is enough time to decide and if you are going into an abortion clinic at 6 months, I think the right of the baby then trumps the right of the mother.
This may be the disagreement point of this argument, as you are making the case that bodily autonomy always trumps life and I am not willing to go that route. I think circumstance matters but also that a right to life trumps inconvenience abortion. The baby is in my opinion not “using” the mother, as it has no fault in her doing. The mother gave the baby the life and then takes it away. That’s something else.
If you can logically make the argument why this is not the case; then I’m willing to hear it. Why would bodily autonomy trump life in this case? I actually am overthinking some of my positions because if this discussion.
I don’t think consent to sex is the same as consent to pregnancy. I think it’s a popular argument though. I think what it does is set up an artificial contact that those arguing for pro life use to get around the right to bodily autonomy.
I agree partially. At the point the child is viable, I think then the right to life should be preserved, and the abortion process should only remove a living child. Not kill it.
That is why I’m continuing the conversation. I recently watched all abortion debate with Matt Dillihunty. I think he is a much better proponent than I, because he is very good at linguistics and making logical arguments. I encourage you to watch it. He shows that pro life arguments are not logically consistent (or at least the ones used here).
It actually is. You are knowingly engaging in sex. Sex leads at some days in the month to pregnancy. For almost all women this time point is circa known (11-23 days after period). Then the man and woman don’t prevent pregnancy through condoms, pill, etc. and then the women doesn’t take either ulipristal or levonorgestrel to prevent pregnancy afterwards. At that point it is consent to pregnancy in my opinion.
But you are right, this argument is not logically consistent all the way through. I think it leads to a moral dilemma though. As the whole situation could be avoided.
I don’t say viable. I say sentient or CNS acivity. Children older than a few months try to crawl away from the suction of the vacuum during an abortion. What would be the problem with in the context of pregnancy, when the child is formed enough then the right to life (or rather the law to not kill such a child) trumps the right to do what you want with your body, after about 7 months you can remove the child when it can live on its own? Is that logically inconsistent?
Not sentient: abortion is possible (to 3 months)
Sentient: can’t kill it (up to 7 months)
Can live on its own: you can remove it, still not kill it
I mean I don’t care if other people kill their babies personally, but I think there is a moral and logical problem here.
What about the argument that dependency on the mother doesn’t lend the right to kill or neglect a baby? A baby is dependent from conception until about a few years old, but a mother can kill it after birth. Why before birth? She has to support that baby through her body after birth why not before?
I keep checking to see if there’s any new stuff about how to blow up with dbol and keep it all, but it’s always a giant paragraph. Both seem to be super smart though, as I can’t understand most of it.
Trust me… there isn’t. I hate running dbol as the classic ‘kickstart’ for that reason. Even alongside Testosterone in moderate-high doses you will gain a bunch of weight from dbol and lose it mid cycle which is demoralizing. I’m not saying you won’t retain ANYTHING, but the big swollen look you get from it doesnt stay. Its great for temporary strength gains etc for say an untested competition. Its just not great for permanent gains period.
@wanna_be you won’t blow up even if you develop a Tren producing tumor that secretes directly into your blood stream, so give up the hope on this topic.
Seriously, thanks @wanna_be and @iron_yuppie for giving the hint that we are out of place. I’ll not prolong the political discussion and get back to answering newbies that ask how to use hCG, proviron, Clomid and tamoxifen simultaneously for PCT. I think I just got bored and @mnben87 provided some excitement to me.
Good discussion @mnben87. If I knew you in real life, I’d drink some beers with you and talk about these topics in a respectful and sincere manner, since you seem to be a good sparring partner to test for one’s own biases and shortcomings. That’s the value of conversation.
I love this statement so much. I hate only speaking with people that share my views by I hate even more trying to speak to someone else that cannot handle their emotions. Too many people have their ego tied to their political beliefs… on both sides of the political spectrum.
Same. I think it is best to just get back to gear. I do have a rebuttal, but I don’t think I am moving the needle at this point.
I also share in the frustration of seeing those who gain 25 lbs in one cycle. I think often this can be explained by a few things:
They were very lean from a cut before hand, and gain muscle, water and fat from the cycle.
They were not very developed to start with. Gains are easier if you are less developed even with AAS.
Good genetics. This isn’t always the case, but not everybody responds the same.
How people progress. Some just put on muscle and strength early on, then plateau really hard (for example the legendary lifter Kaz, claims to have started with a 600 lb deadlift at 16, but his best ever was 837, I have put more on my deadlift than the Kaz, I don’t necessarily believe him on his 16 YO deadlift claim though). Some slowly gain, but are consistent, and end up really developed. Some lucky bastards start really well and keep progressing. Some poor bastard start weak and don’t progress much. I think I am option 2, as I haven’t gained all that quickly, but I keep making progress and after a long time, I am fairly developed.
They are just getting really fat and water bloated. They think it is solid, but it is far from.
No offense to any member here but I’ve seen a lot of before pics and pics of people with current issues (such as potential gyno) and they did not look like they were developed enough to cycle. They ARE going to gain a lot more than someone with a more filled out and developed frame. However, they are also more likely to gain less quality weight as you said and/or potentially lose any quality due to the lack of commitment and discipline.
@studhammer off topic buttt… Parts of Texas are currently getting hit by a gnarly ice storm. If this encompasses where you live can you send me a picture or two of the ice accumulation?
I’m not sure I believe in set criteria required in order to cycle. Rather I believe an individual simply needs to know how to eat properly and maintain a decent routine in the gym whilst simultaneously being aware of the risks associated with AAS use.
I’d argue learning about the pharmacodynamics/pharmacokinetics relating to AAS and studying basic human physiology and whatnot ought to be more of a pre-requisite for use as opposed to a hypothetical lifting standard (i.e 1000lb total minimum) or body composition.
The reason I like to see a certain experience level is to ensure the person is in this for the long haul. How many lifters lift for 6 months or a year, and then hardly ever set foot in the gym. In that case, a cycle is almost all negative (given they quit).
This is the same for my benchmark reasoning for cycling. Whats the point in messing up your HPTA or taking any risk if you are going back to a sedentary lifestyle as most do. I’ve been at the same gym now for 13 years which is the longest I’ve lived in a certain area. I’ve seen people come and go over that time and I can only think of 3-4 individuals who have maintained a consistent presence.
I agree here however I do believe a body composition of ones natural peak should be a set point for launching into AAS. If you look like you barely lift I doubt you are at your natural peak. If you are at 20%BF I doubt you are at your natural peak. These are my only points. You don’t have to lift “X” weight or be jacked as some people just don’t get there no matter what they do.
Hasn’t really started here yet but its predicted for the next couple of days. I may be able to get some but, Texans REALLY don’t know how to drive in rain much less ice/snow. They all freak out at the first sign of moisture on the roads and slow to a crawl. (Hell, we’ll drive 100 mph on a dry road but one drop on the windshield and its nothing but brake lights)
I drove thru all kinds of shit for 12 years in Wyoming but I’m not inclined to drive around looking for good pics with these crazies! LOL
Your state also doesn’t have the plows, the ability to salt the roads, to go with inexperienced winter drivers. It isn’t just the drivers, but they are part of the problem.
In my state, MN, plenty are not great at driving in snow, but the roads are taken care of fairly well.
As a side note, this is my first year with snow tires. OMG are they amazing. I would easily take a FWD car with snow tires over an AWD car with all seasons. AWD just lets you accelerate, snow tires allow better acceleration, stopping and turning.
I swear I laughed when I read this! In Germany everybody puts on snow tires in October and puts on summer tires in March or April. I thought everyone living in a region where it snows does this. I never knew
I think we are past this point in this thread
I think you made really good points in your post. I just wanna put out an example.
In my last natural bulk which was circa 14 weeks, I went from 185 lbs to 205 lbs. My squat went up 40 lbs. My bench went up 15. I am not very strong. My squat is at 360 lbs.
Body fat change was from circa 13% at the beginning to around 17-18% in the end. So 5.5 kg were pure fat, while 4 kg were muscle.
With AAS in the mix these numbers would have jumped even more. Fat gain would have been lower, muscle gain would have been higher. 15 lbs on the bench would have probably been at least doubled.
So I think his numbers are not outrageous. For @mnben87 I think you are really developed especially strength wise, that’s why jumps are way smaller, same for @blshaw probably, as you are really developed muscle wise.
If I were guessing somewhere between 10-25% of people do this in my state which is cold and snowy (It has gotten below 0F each day for like a week straight now). I will say a good all season tire more biased for cold weather is pretty good. Not comparable to snow tires IMO.
Next cycle, I am committing to getting really lean beforehand, so I am not afraid to eat and bulk. I think I can get a good ratio of muscle to fat if I shoot for say 10-15 lbs of gain over a longer cycle of say 16 weeks. AAS certainly helps the ratio of muscle and fat in a bulk and in a cut (but I think for my level AAS should be used for bulking).
Lately despite all my never doing 19 Nor talk, NPP has been calling. Not sure if I’ll do it, but was thinking of running it really low like 100-200 mg/wk. I’ll probably just end up with Test and EQ, and through in Tbol at some point (maybe beginning and end for 4 weeks each since I’ll probably do a longer lower dose cycle).
The goal after the bulk is to be about 205 lbs @ 5’10", but jacked (currently 210, but a bit softer than I would like, a faint 4 pack is present). I am thinking starting from 190-195 is about where I need to be. Goal is to total over 1,000 lbs in a bench / deadlift competition in the 198 lb class. I figure if I have good abs at 205, then a water cut should get me there, and I won’t be carrying around a lot of extra weight that puts me in a higher weight class. And to be jacked of course.