[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
The only way that happens when you hit 17/18/19, in today’s world, is if you take out a government or student loan, or have parents willing to pay (rarely the case ime), work a few jobs, and extend your time spent in university by a few years. Then when you finally do graduate, you’re much older (min 22) and in debt.[/quote]
You didn’t mention scholarships dawg.[/quote]
or the GI Bill.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Man, SonOfWolf may go down as one of the best trolls of all time.
OP has caused a fight about generation gap and the job market.
Bravo to you, sir. [/quote]
I donno man, he dips as much as deadlifts. That’s troll weak sauce.
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
You think just because you have pretty piece of paper that you paid 50K for, that MEANS SOMETHING? LOL
Unless you can PERFORM and PROVIDE REAL VALUE, you are worthless. No matter how much that pretty piece of paper cost you.
[/quote]
yea? What if you have the piece of paper AND provide real value?â?¦then what?
I know that a large construction equipment company in MN DUMPED EVERYONE who didn’t have that piece of paper (after talking to someone who works there).
Go tell this people who got laid off that the piece of paper does’t matter.[/quote]
There are PLENTY of people without that piece of paper who do AS WELL, if not BETTER, than those with it. And if I cared to rebut your fallacious argument from the particular to general, I could find tons of examples of people WITH that piece of paper who are unemployed AND unemployable.
My POINT is that if you can provide value, you will be steadily employed. If you have the degree AND can provide value, good for you. But having the piece of paper and NOT providing any value? UNEMPLOYED…
In many industries, it’s the PROVIDING VALUE that matters, not the degree.
Jan 1st, 1976 Minimum wage for non-farm workers was $2.20/hr
http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm
1975 Gallon of gas $0.57
http://www.1970sflashback.com/1975/economy.asp
thats 4 gallons of gas an hour.
Currently minimum wage gets you about 2.5 gallons of gas an hr
Look I’m not defending the Entitlement mentality, I know a lot of people my age (and now a little younger) have terrible perspectives. But a lot of you guys here are applying that to us younger posters here on TN.
Push, AC, usmccds243, do you guys know what it’s like to complete a Mechanical Engineering degree from an ABET accredited university (or similar science/engineering degree)? IF you had a clue, you would provide at least a small amount of respect for those of us that have.
I’m more than willing to listen to you guys with experience and years of hard work under your belt to hear about how you got to be successful, but for gods sake quit blowing things out of proportion with how you view ALL young bucks.
WE are not the ones that you are complaining about!! You are generalizing/stereotyping our generation, when we are not all like that. You are complaining about the 99%-ers who have their degree in ART HISTORY etc (which requires little/no effort) and demand a livable wage, THEY DID NOT PUT IN WORK, WE (engineers etc.) DID and are continuing to.
Agreed that you need to be a productive team member for a company to make considerable money, but a serious degree CAN (not always cause I know some people have an easy time with school) indicate that you are capable of “CONSISTENT HARD WORK OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME”
I just had a chat with HR for a Process Engineer position this morning and she was clear that there will be 10+ hr days at times. Do you think this scared me? Hell no I told her I CRAVE hard work and that I like being productive and useful to the company (not BS, this is how if truly feel). My current job is slow as fuck and I HATE it, I’m looking for anyway out to put in more work and receive more pay.
We’re not so different you and I.
SIDE NOTE: this door-to-door salesman was selling some type of home security. He came to my door and I started talking to him?he said he had a Mechanical Engineering degree. Confused as hell, I asked him if it was from an ABET accredited university, he said “No”.
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Your faulty perecpeptions are taking place of any accurate memories, and you know what? No one can call bullshit cause we weren’t there with you at that time, but you can sit here and pick apart the younger generations cause YOU ARE HERE right now.
Give me a fucking break[/quote]
The funny part is, most of us sat there and said this same shit when we were your age.
Funny how it happens, but it does.
Life changes, perception changes, things get different.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
The only way that happens when you hit 17/18/19, in today’s world, is if you take out a government or student loan, or have parents willing to pay (rarely the case ime), work a few jobs, and extend your time spent in university by a few years. Then when you finally do graduate, you’re much older (min 22) and in debt.[/quote]
You didn’t mention scholarships dawg.[/quote]
or the GI Bill. [/quote]
Or going to a cheaper state school, etc
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Jan 1st, 1976 Minimum wage for non-farm workers was $2.20/hr
http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm
1975 Gallon of gas $0.57
http://www.1970sflashback.com/1975/economy.asp
thats 4 gallons of gas an hour.
Currently minimum wage gets you about 2.5 gallons of gas an hr[/quote]
Please add the stats for average miles per gallon a car gets.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Job security comes from being valuable enough that keeping you is worth more than getting rid of you. There’s really not much more to it.[/quote]
To fill in a blank here.
It comes from being valuable enough to the person or people in control of the hiring/firing decisions, and this value isn’t always measured in money. And to be even more precise, it’s the perception of value, which may or may not reflect reality.
In a word, politics.
The more invaluable you appear to the right people, the more secure your job is.
I’m sure you’ve heard of at least one case where an incompetent “friend/relative of the manager” got promoted.
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Jan 1st, 1976 Minimum wage for non-farm workers was $2.20/hr
http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm
1975 Gallon of gas $0.57
http://www.1970sflashback.com/1975/economy.asp
thats 4 gallons of gas an hour.
Currently minimum wage gets you about 2.5 gallons of gas an hr
Look I’m not defending the Entitlement mentality, I know a lot of people my age (and now a little younger) have terrible perspectives. But a lot of you guys here are applying that to us younger posters here on TN.
Push, AC, usmccds243, do you guys know what it’s like to complete a Mechanical Engineering degree from an ABET accredited university (or similar science/engineering degree)? IF you had a clue, you would provide at least a small amount of respect for those of us that have.
I’m more than willing to listen to you guys with experience and years of hard work under your belt to hear about how you got to be successful, but for gods sake quit blowing things out of proportion with how you view ALL young bucks.
WE are not the ones that you are complaining about!! You are generalizing/stereotyping our generation, when we are not all like that. You are complaining about the 99%-ers who have their degree in ART HISTORY etc (which requires little/no effort) and demand a livable wage, THEY DID NOT PUT IN WORK, WE (engineers etc.) DID and are continuing to.
Agreed that you need to be a productive team member for a company to make considerable money, but a serious degree CAN (not always cause I know some people have an easy time with school) indicate that you are capable of “CONSISTENT HARD WORK OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME”
I just had a chat with HR for a Process Engineer position this morning and she was clear that there will be 10+ hr days at times. Do you think this scared me? Hell no I told her I CRAVE hard work and that I like being productive and useful to the company (not BS, this is how if truly feel). My current job is slow as fuck and I HATE it, I’m looking for anyway out to put in more work and receive more pay.
We’re not so different you and I.
SIDE NOTE: this door-to-door salesman was selling some type of home security. He came to my door and I started talking to him?he said he had a Mechanical Engineering degree. Confused as hell, I asked him if it was from an ABET accredited university, he said “No”.
[/quote]
I think you are taking their generalizations (which is the only way you can discuss generations, really) a little too personal.
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Jan 1st, 1976 Minimum wage for non-farm workers was $2.20/hr
http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm
1975 Gallon of gas $0.57
http://www.1970sflashback.com/1975/economy.asp
thats 4 gallons of gas an hour.
[/quote]
How many MPG did cars in 76 get vs. cars in 2014?
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Push, AC, usmccds243, do you guys know what it’s like to complete a Mechanical Engineering degree from an ABET accredited university (or similar science/engineering degree)? IF you had a clue, you would provide at least a small amount of respect for those of us that have.
[/quote]
I know what’s it like to get an accounting degree from a AACSB accredited college and then send out 200+ resumes netting 3 interviews and 1 job. This is after serving in the Marine Corps, graduating Cum Laude, and having worked full time for about 5 years.
Where did I disrespect engineers or that particular degree?
Also, I’m 28…
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Push, AC, usmccds243, do you guys know what it’s like to complete a Mechanical Engineering degree from an ABET accredited university (or similar science/engineering degree)? IF you had a clue, you would provide at least a small amount of respect for those of us that have.
[/quote]
I know what’s it like to get an accounting degree from a AACSB accredited college and then send out 200+ resumes netting 3 interviews and 1 job. This is after serving in the Marine Corps, graduating Cum Laude, and having worked full time for about 5 years.
Where did I disrespect engineers or that particular degree?
Also, I’m 28… [/quote]
LB is an engineer, and I see disrespect thereâ?¦
you’re only 28? I thought you were like 35 or so… I guess I was mislead by the fact that you are arguing on the side of the older guys here (or maybe you just don’t like LB?).
200:3:1 with an accounting degree?? DAYUM dude I am genuinely surprised. I went like 12:2:2(â?¦2 offers) out of school (not complaining obviously).
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Jan 1st, 1976 Minimum wage for non-farm workers was $2.20/hr
http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm
1975 Gallon of gas $0.57
http://www.1970sflashback.com/1975/economy.asp
thats 4 gallons of gas an hour.
Currently minimum wage gets you about 2.5 gallons of gas an hr[/quote]
Please add the stats for average miles per gallon a car gets. [/quote]
Gasoline price is not a reliable measure of purchasing power. The oil market is artificially manipulated all the time. Withhold supply >> prices go through the roof. Flood the market >> prices drop. The Big Mac Index is more reliable. The Economist’s Big Mac Index doesn’t start till 1986 but from what I can tell a Big Mac in 1975 cost 70 cents in the US.
I forgot how fun this forum is sometimes. Only wish I could have seen the initial posts real time because I would have been on this so fast!
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Push, AC, usmccds243, do you guys know what it’s like to complete a Mechanical Engineering degree from an ABET accredited university (or similar science/engineering degree)? IF you had a clue, you would provide at least a small amount of respect for those of us that have.[/quote]
I actually do know, and do respect that. (I mean, my university was accredited the very first year ABET started accrediting universities in the first place. I also noticed you didn’t include my name.)
And that definitely increases your chances of being successful, at least when combined with years spent proving yourself, making mistakes and learning from them. It’s no guarantee of anything.
I completely get the feelings that come with being disillusioned when finally seeing through the lies we’ve been fed through media, the financial industry, the education industry, that have been parroted by parents and friends and guidance counselors. If anything, you can blame Madison Avenue for becoming absolutely brilliant at developing marketing strategies.
But now that you see things a bit clearly, you have the choice of either staying jaded and angry, or figuring out what you want and doing what it takes to make it happen.
I really don’t think anyone you mentioned truly sees things as being “easy” for us. It wasn’t any easier for them either. The difference is how you respond to adversity; whether you man up and do what it takes, or you don’t and just complain about how unfair it is.
It’s funny that there is a discussion about engineers not getting jobs. In the UK at least the job market as a whole isn’t great, the job market as a grad isn’t great, but the job market for people with a technical degree is good.
One of the guys on my masters went through a recruitment agency looking for a job, they told him the job market for people with a good science degree is better than it has been for a long time, better than it was before the recession. The problem is increasing numbers of people are going to university to do arts, and other non technical degrees, there is a market for these people but it’s much smaller than the number of grads. I’m doing a fully funded PhD now but every person I know from uni who did an engineering or science degree has a decent job and it’s just less than a year on. Granted it took some of them a while and quite a few applications/interviews but they got there.
I have witnessed a lot of people who finished school, didn’t know what they wanted to do, got semi pushed into uni and just picked something that sounds fun but is completely useless. I don’t mean to bash on arts graduates too hard, as I know a few people who loved it, worked very hard, did a lot of side work and got jobs. But that’s the minority of driven people amongst a sea of lethargic laziness.
On the original topic, the OP should get a side job. My parents have been generous with me, they always provided for me, helped me out through uni etc, but I still had a job from 15 onwards just 1-2 days a week to pay for extra stuff I wanted myself.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Jan 1st, 1976 Minimum wage for non-farm workers was $2.20/hr
http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm
1975 Gallon of gas $0.57
http://www.1970sflashback.com/1975/economy.asp
thats 4 gallons of gas an hour.
Currently minimum wage gets you about 2.5 gallons of gas an hr[/quote]
Please add the stats for average miles per gallon a car gets. [/quote]
fair point.
Info is harder to find on that ( i looked at a 76 6 cyl camaro, and ford torino), but lets say 10mpg?
ok, so buying a new car today, lets say 30mpg?
1976 = 40 mph (that is a wage by the wayâ?¦dollars/hr>$/gallon of gas>mpg) @ minimum wage
2014 = 75 mph
ok, do the old guys lose out on transportation with minimum wage. What about food?
1976 Gallon of milk = $0.60 ( Collaboration between Historical Text Archive and LEON )
retail lb of beef = $1.52 ( National Chicken Council | Wholesale and Retail Prices for Chicken, Beef, and Pork )
2014 Gallon of milk = $3.60 (source: me)
retail lb of beef = $3.69 (source: me)
I’m sure it’s give and take across the board, and I honestly don’t know what time it was harder to live on minim wage (1976 or 2014).
I will say that these days it’s easy to say “cost of living is higher” wellâ?¦is it? you don’t NEED a smart phone with unlimited data, you don’t NEED internet period (library) you don’t NEED Air conditioning or a fancy gym membership or a car with bluetooth/navigation
â?¦…but boy do we tell ourselves that we do need these things!
[quote]LoRez wrote:
… I also noticed you didn’t include my name
[/quote]
I guess it was cause a page or two back you ended one of your posts with
“basically I am agreeing with everyone” so it’s hard to say what side you’re on lol.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Your faulty perecpeptions are taking place of any accurate memories, and you know what? No one can call bullshit cause we weren’t there with you at that time, but you can sit here and pick apart the younger generations cause YOU ARE HERE right now.
Give me a fucking break[/quote]
The funny part is, most of us sat there and said this same shit when we were your age.
Funny how it happens, but it does.
Life changes, perception changes, things get different. [/quote]
I can only hope to be an old, successful, grumpy cunt someday like some of you guys here 
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
I’m sure it’s give and take across the board, and I honestly don’t know what time it was harder to live on minim wage (1976 or 2014).
[/quote]
I would say it pretty much sucks in either era, and is good motivation to figure out a better way of doing shit.
But specific to the thread, both allow you to buy your own pasta and maybe have a couple bucks left over for a joint and a burger with a lady who has low expectations and lower self esteem.