Maybe less volume, and a more strenght oriented program.
And drop some BF, muscles seem much ‘plenty’ while not on a bulking phase.
Mathieu
It takes time and more overall size…and then leanness. This is also something that improves over time and what many refer to when a lifter in his late 30’s has a more “mature” or dense to look to his muscles than someone in their early 20’s.
As far as the OP, you actually do have decent genes for that already. You just have to keep working at it. You are likely more advanced than most giving you advice right now.
[quote]FattyFat wrote:
@OP
No offense, but you seem to be holding quite a bit of water. Great structure, btw.
[/quote]
none taken, I’ve been increasing my intake of sodium/carbs and recently had a blood test where my estrogen levels were rather high.
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
little by little, year after year, decade after decade…[/quote]
also found this in a science textbook:
1 - general formula (/with units)
muscle density (g/cm^3) = heavy weights (lbs/kg) x time (years/decades)
2 - general formula (/in general)
m/v = hw x [i]t[/i]
[/quote]
That formula isn’t dimensionally correct, fuck you!
[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
little by little, year after year, decade after decade…[/quote]
also found this in a science textbook:
1 - general formula (/with units)
muscle density (g/cm^3) = heavy weights (lbs/kg) x time (years/decades)
2 - general formula (/in general)
m/v = hw x [i]t[/i]
[/quote]
That formula isn’t dimensionally correct, fuck you![/quote]
lol
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
FST-7
[/quote]
heheh it’s like
dammn I heard it before!
I just saw a brand new program way better than FST-7, do not miss it: FST-8 ! ! !
Buy new bigger clothes right NOW ! ! !
[quote]FattyFat wrote:
@OP
No offense, but you seem to be holding quite a bit of water. Great structure, btw.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
density = heavy fucking weight, explosive lifting, low reps, lots of years of hard work
[/quote]
While I do agree with your comment, posting photos of assisted athletes is ridiculous in this context given the OP’s question whether it’s possible to attain said density by natural means.
Also, let’s not forget that a lot of factors contribute to ‘density’, being lean one of the more important ones.
[/quote]
yes I agree with you, but this was just an extreme example as the athletes I posted are obviously all on da kreyshawnjuice. But you can get ‘assisted’ bodybuilders and ‘assisted’ weightlifters and compare the examples (assuming both are relatively lean) and tell a huge difference by how their muscles look, and in the end that comes down to how they train.
Guys Do We Have To Be So Mean…I Know The Testosterone Levels Are Not That High!!! We Are All Learning, Pushing, Inspiring, Aspiring, And Laying It All On The Line. There’s No Need to Be Insulting To Each Other.
Id like to say it probably doesnt matter how you train as long as your inspiring muscle growth. A dense look is more likely a combination of leanness, water retention genetics and mostspecifically your hormonal profile. Saying density is related to a rep range or intensity is like saying high reps make your muscles more cut or you can shape a muscle we all know that this is a myth.
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
Id like to say it probably doesnt matter how you train as long as your inspiring muscle growth. A dense look is more likely a combination of leanness, water retention genetics and mostspecifically your hormonal profile. Saying density is related to a rep range or intensity is like saying high reps make your muscles more cut or you can shape a muscle we all know that this is a myth.[/quote]
it’s basic muscle physiology. it is not something you can really argue against lol. what we mean by muscle density is myofibrillar hypertrophy, or the increase in actin-myosin filaments (sarcomeres) inside the cell. this is why we hear the term ‘functional’ muscle all the time, whereas sarcoplasmic (fluid-like substance) hypertrophy is referred to as ‘non-functional’ muscle. with more ‘dense’ muscle, you also increase myogenic tone, or the ‘hardness’ of a muscle at rest. here’s an old ass excerpt from Thib:
“Heavy lifting increases myogenic tone (tonus) which makes your muscles appear and feel “harder.” Take two guys who have around the same amount of muscle mass and body fat; one is using heavy weights while the other one is using “pumping” techniques. Despite similar body composition, the heavy weight lifter will always look harder and denser while at rest. The pumper will look great when fully pumped up, but will quickly deflate once he exits the gym. So if you want a permanent muscular look, not a transient one, include some heavy lifting in your program!”
I always thought it was an age thing. Like Clint Eastwood looks grainy as fuck (maybe not the best example, but he had a bit of muscle in his day), but Chris Evans has muscle but it’s kinda smoother looking.
I could be wrong (I often am) but that’s what I’d always thought.
Essentially what PB andy said is correct I think…
[quote]DSSG wrote:
Essentially what PB andy said is correct. So for those who haven’t caught up on what is said: dense looking muscles= heavy lifting+hypertrophy of muscle fibers with a high majority of them being fast glycolytic, (type 2B) and some fast oxidative (type 2 A)[/quote]
LOLOLOL
Airtruth what was funny about what I said? Did I use a term incorrectly, or say something incorrect? Or are you just merely being a D-bag?
[quote]PrinceQ wrote:
Guys Do We Have To Be So Mean…I Know The Testosterone Levels Are Not That High!!! We Are All Learning, Pushing, Inspiring, Aspiring, And Laying It All On The Line. There’s No Need to Be Insulting To Each Other. [/quote]
Welcome to T-Nation
[quote]DSSG wrote:
Airtruth what was funny about what I said? Did I use a term incorrectly, or say something incorrect? Or are you just merely being a D-bag? [/quote]
All of the above.
There was more than that in this thread. If your saying that’s all PB said fine, but what was in this thread no. And I disagree with the whole fast twitch stuff.
Summary of what I’ve read in this thread to help with density and how to build it.
Time
More Muscle
Hold less water
Roids
(Genetics) someone said they didn’t like this but I think it plays a major factor.
They only term you used that I agree with is hypertrophy. With pump training being so popular in this forum the last month or so I’m surprised you would even say “= heavy lifting”…
I call this the granite vs cherry look
I personally prefer the cherry look lol.
Flex Wheeler/Phil Heath vs Coleman/Warren
[quote]zraw wrote:
I call this the granite vs cherry look
I personally prefer the cherry look lol.
Flex Wheeler/Phil Heath vs Coleman/Warren
[/quote]
phil heath for sure lol. biceps full of air
density come from powerlifting. perfect competition form at all times as heavy as you can. look at the difference between Franco Columbu and Frank Zane. Franco was 190lbs. and dead lifted 700 plus. he was 5 foot 5! tons of density he looked like he was as solid as a stone. Zane was a great bodyuilder and mr olympia as well but in comparison you can see Zane has a less dense look to him. he’s more smoothly sculpted. and of course hard training for years. hard, hard work always.