Well, if you increase protein intake, your body will upregulate mechanisms to oxidize it. If you go from 200 grams a day to 300 grams a day, your body will burn 97-99 of the extra 100 grams you added. Now that may have an anti-catabolic effect since it also stimulates insulin in a slow and steady rate, but if you cut back to 200 the next week, your body is still upregulated to burn 295 grams a day. The more protein you eat, the more you oxidize. Protein is not easy to store without building muscle, and muscle is energetically expensive and calorie sparse (about 400 or so calories per pound excluding the associated intermuscular and intramuscular fat. Some have suggested having low protein periods to reduce protein oxidation, and then to ramp it up, but it doesn’t seem like a strategy that would net anything in the long run.
Let’s see, that’s the age Jesus died (33), the weight of Mr. Rogers (143 (I Love You)) and what is the 69 for?
I’ll try to give an appropriately streamlined answer in the near future.
Question should be, how much will give ‘best’ growth, people can grow on very low amounts, but it won’t be ‘best growth’. (we get a PS rise after every protein meal, it goes much higher after meals if we have recently performed a resistance training workout. That’s when we grow, training doesn’t increase ‘net’ ps without protein and ps only exceeds pd after a meal. Up to 40 grams at a meal is the average level that increases protein synthesis the highest).
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I think the main point is the one offered earlier in this thread. Training is of primary importance. Rest is secondary. Macronutrients are tertiary.
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People have thrived over thousands of years eating very different diets based on local availability. Our metabolism is very complicated, is designed to use many foods, and its biochemical complexity can’t be completely simplified to insulin, cortisol, mTOR, testosterone and amino acids without losing a lot of important detail and feedback controls.
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As mentioned, people vary considerably. Ideal diets for longevity, muscle building, endurance, athletic performance and lean appearance probably differ for you and what is ideal for you may vary for someone else. Healthy foods are understood - ideal diets and fine points of individual variation are less well understood.
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Diet is age and activity dependent. Growing bodies require more calories, so more of every macronutrient. Strength training is one activity and one form of exercise - your needs depend on what else you do, your age, experience level, actual workout protocol, your priorities, genetics, possibly supplements and steroids and sleep and stresses and other things. The best ratio for me, a middle-aged, experienced, lifelong natural, heavy lifter who mainly sprints for cardio - may not be best for you.
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For example, my priorities are to have a long lifespan and health span, lift heavy, avoid injury, maintain (or gain, but likely close to my genetic limits) muscle, eat a variety of good tasting food including delicious meat and necessary vegetables. I want a flat belly, have one, have never had very low body fat or a six pack and don’t much care. I will never take anabolic steroids or diuretics; not my priorities. I consider myself a power lifter but fitness communities probably spend too much time on insignificant things and labels. I sprint and do some cardio, and think it healthy (if avoiding significant injuries).
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You can likely build muscle with lower amounts of protein. I know people who have to limit their protein intake due to chronic conditions who lift fairly significant weights and who look muscular. I like eating meat, eggs and dairy and see no reason for me to eat minimal protein. I try to eat lots of fibre and vegetables, which is work and takes planning. A protein bar is probably healthier than junk food. Smoothies are tasty and easy.
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I am prepared to believe most Western men eat adequate protein in their diet to build decent levels of muscle. There might well be some benefit to extra protein before bed or consuming carbohydrates close to exercise. Again, the “experiment on yourself” approach favoured by Berardi makes sense. He has disavowed his earlier very high protein recommendations. Is a “decent level” a maximum level or ideal level? Probably not. See priorities.
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Experiments are usually done on nurses or students or people who are not primarily training for strength and are not you. The results may not fully apply to you. It makes health sense to include olive oil (including Mediterranean diet foods) and healthy fats, get enough fibre and vegetables, enjoy eating, eat more fish, eat less frequent and smaller portions of junk food, eat less processed foods, make changes if gaining lots of fat quickly or losing too much energy, eat a variety of brightly coloured foods (not mainly Skittles), see your doctor annually and get your cholesterol levels checked.
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I do not think it is known whether you would benefit from more or less protein. I think 0.75-1 gram per kilogram is a reasonable starting point. I think older people, stressed people, people who want to eat less carbs and have lean abs, people with good organs could eat more. But this depends on their specific priorities and genetics. As much as the 1+ g/lb some recommend? Maybe. Give it a try. Higher still? Go back to the first point, but try it and see if you want. You don’t need to stick to a minimum value. When you find what works for you, let us know.
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Meat, fish, eggs as well as shakes and bars with significant protein can be delicious, include much fibre, and it is easy to add other tasty and beneficial stuff to smoothies. Probably better or more necessary when first starting lifting and gaining quickly, but there are probably many, many worse things. It’s an easy way to fill up. It probably helps. It might help you personally a lot. But no need to go overboard. There is probably a range of decent amounts. Support your local websites that generally offer good and experienced nutritional and lifting advice. But don’t accept any commercial advice without some skepticism.
can you tell a bit more for thix ‘insulin night time needs’ ? it’s could be reason for stress related insulin resistance ?
Most of your growth hormone secretion is between about 10:00 pm and 2:00 am. If insulin is high during that period it will be significantly blocked. Cortisol, while not stimulating of insulin raises blood sugar release from the liver along with fatty acid release from fat cells. When glucose and fatty acids go into the bloodstream, insulin rises to keep it down and move the nutrients back into the liver, into fat cells and into muscle cells. So night time stress, including lack of sleep between 10:00 and 2:00 results in elevated cortisol, which requires elevated insulin which blocks the night time release of growth hormone. When that happens, you don’t heal up on daily microtrauma that you may have acquired in soft tissues or even bones and then the inflammation from that microtrauma signals the body to release more cortisol which perpetuates the cycle.
Extreme dieting, training, high Uric Acid, stimulants all raise night time cortisol and so they all can cause a trend toward hormonal insulin resistance and a block in growth hormone which maintains the state of high cortisol. Melatonin can reduce the night time cortisol but if used chronically it will stop being effective and reduce your natural release.
thank you.
'will try for start with melatonin and reduce my training workouts , because my chronically wake ups around 1-2am .