Then I think it becomes a battle between state laws and federal.
There could be. I mean, there’s all of the molon labe, give me liberty or give me death stuff, but that shit was spoken by people who were heavily insulated from the results of their pep talks.
How did Patrick Henry die?
I understand and I’m speaking about how I think America should act. Other countries have very different ways of dealing with things for a thousand reasons. I wouldn’t presume to tell another country how they should do things. I’m speaking strictly about how I think we (USA) should do things.
Generally, but the 1st applies to all states and you can’t stop people from peacefully assembling. Semantics aside, it seems crystal clear to me, but who knows. If someone can point to a precedent showing I’m wrong, I’m all eyes. I asked Governor Hogan what precedent gave him the authority to issue a stay-home EO, but he didn’t respond.
Meaning, what constitutes an infringement of another liberty in this case? Being 5’ away? Simply leaving your house as an asymptomatic carrier?
There are extremes, sure. I’m certainly not a mountain militia type, lol.
I don’t recall. Not in war if memory serves.
I’m frankly not that interested in discovering how we should do things. Me shouting on the internet isn’t going to affect that, I’m not that important. I am really interested in how people see these things though, so thank you for coaching me through that.
No problem. I appreciate the pleasant conversation (rare here).
Exactly.
The tough talk is spoken by people who aren’t going to suffer for their own decisions.
People say these things to the ones they want to see go out and die.
I quoted part of your message (we as in you and I) in which you said you think people positive to the virus shouldn’t be forbidden from going out. it doesn’t matter what was being discussed earlier, that sentence I initially quoted was all the information I wanted to answer to. you’ll concur with me that the statement
is clear enough to be discussed on its own?
I think you misunderstood what I said here. right BECAUSE it’s impossible for people to know whether you are contagious or not, at least those that are known to be contagious shouldn’t have interactions with other people. it’s already easy enough to catch the virus.
i am pretty sure that, US aside, there isn’t a single country where people positive to the virus are allowed to go out. different countries have different approaches as far as the “for-everyone” restrictions, but all of them seem to agree on quarantining the infected.
it’s a matter of safeguarding the right to health and life versus that of going out. there is an objective priority scale. try going grocery shopping if you’re hooked to a ventilator or dead.
that’s got nothing to do with this. who’s supposed to protect people then? superheroes?
if everyone was guaranteed to act “like an adult” and have common sense, no laws would be needed to begin with.
look at all the data from the countries (including italy, and I don’t give a fuck if you “couldn’t care less”) that were affected before the US. many of them waited weeks, even months, before taking very restrictive measures. in the end, all of them were forced to do so because the whole system was falling apart.
In some cases, yes, but a lot of people say similar things during combat. Look at some of the stuff Chesty Puller said, lol.
In the USA, a person testing positive for tuberculosis is usually placed under non-voluntary quarantine.
I’m not sure what your point is?
Yeah, there are exceptions.
On my side, I’ve been interacting a (very) little with some people on Facebook (big mistake) who feel their rights are being trounced upon, and people (me specifically) are weak, stupid fucking losers who have given up on life and should fuck off.
I’ve actually been told that directly, by some 20 year old lump of cock snot that apparently has all of this virus bullshit figured out, so we don’t need no damn stay at home stuff, and people that think so Should Die.
This is a conversation that spans several threads and at least a weeks time. You took one sentence out of context and ran with it. That is why I said you weren’t following the conversation. I have consistently been talking about the illegality of stay-home orders in Maryland in the United States.
You didn’t even ask a question.
Perhaps, if you had asked a question specifically about that sentence, but you just wrote “…I don’t know what to say.”
Voluntarily, agreed. State ordered, disagree.
I don’t care what other countries do.
Again, this is your opinion. Try buying groceries if you don’t have an income. Try buying groceries if you’re dad killed himself because he lost his job.
The government’s record when it comes to how they treat their subjects, I mean citizens, has nothing to do with a conversation about rights?
How about we protect each other by choice?
There are laws and people still don’t act like adults. So more laws are going to fix that how?
I didn’t say I couldn’t care less about Italy. I said I couldn’t care less about Italian law.
I already added my thoughts on this. People, including the government(s), weren’t taking this seriously early on and I’m not even arguing whether stay-home ordered are effective. They are effective.
Ya, those people are stupid. We should protect life as much as possible. People have fucked mentalities all around.
I’m sure he’s an upstanding citizen…
It’s amazing how many people actually think they are, but when push comes to shove…
Another guy I know, great guy, he’ll tell you all about why- can’t get off the whole “Gov. Wolfe shut down my business, I’m a small business…”, or put down the bottle long enough to call an attorney and get a full understanding of the relief available had he not unloaded a clip into his foot by sending all of his guys home.
Aside: He can afford it, before anybody jumps on that. The small business is more of a hobby/pride thing. The money is generations old and stacked very high.
Point being that America does involuntary quarantine people for viruses (that’s what TB is?). It seems to be an issue of not considering CV an immediate and dangerous enough threat to warrant a suspension of ones typically garaunteed rights.
We Americans LOVE our individual freedoms/rights and id guess it would take a virus with double digit mortality rates before the country accepted policy that seriously infringed on those rights and freedoms.
That’s another thing/reason why I have such an issue with these things. The Fed is willing to distribute freshly printed Monopoly money to business (assuming they qualify) and a lot haven’t/won’t be bothered to look into it.
If you’re not willing to do the bare minimum why should I have my rights restricted? That’s my issue. I have done everything asked of me so why should I be punished for others stupidity?
PA seems even worse than MD.
Scale matters, agreed. I’m happy to hear a case for why we should involuntarily quarantine people with coronavirus.
yeah i got lost in translation… i meant to say that part i quoted was the one i wanted to reply to.
what is someone doesn’t agree and goes out anyway? are they free to infect other people and spread the virus?
oh, well, then we can just drop this here, because i thought you were discussing these restrictions in general, since the US is not the only country that’s applying them (if anything, you guys are among the last ones)
you can’t count on that, can you? just like you can’t count on people not killing people, thus laws on murder.
no, but at least they guarantee (ideally) that people that don’t act according to such laws will be prosecuted.
I know, but I was anticipating an answer like “i couldn’t care less about italian data, either”.
okay, so given that this is a matter to be taken seriously (and countries that didn’t quickily learned it at their own expense), and we have an effective solution, should it not be enforced? are we leaving the future of the world in the hands of people that may or may not choose to do “the right thing?”
Because folks with CV that knowingly go out in public are stupid, or assholes, or both. At a minimum they should be sterilized so stupid assholes cannot reproduce and and raise stupid asshole children.
But we are requiring everyone to stay home, whether infected or not. That’s not the same thing. I admit, I have no better solution, but I don’t like the precedent this sets.
They may infect other people and perhaps we should hold them responsible for infecting others. I think that’s probably not a good idea, but it’s something to explore.
At the end of the day, I believe people should be responsible for their actions and if those actions hurt others then we should address it.
I don’t mean this negatively. Every country has its own way of doing things based on generations of cultural norms, history, laws, etc… I do not expect Australia to react like Italy or Italy to react like Mexico or Mexico react like the US. We can talk about ways we can collectively fight a global virus and we can learn from each other, but at the end of the day, a nation is going to do things their own way. That is just how it is, imo.
Can I count on the government to protect me?
These two things aren’t analogous, though. Murder is illegal and if you commit murder you are charged, tried, and presumably convicted. In this case, it is illegal to leave your house (a protected right under the US Constitution) because you could infect someone else and that person could die.
You sorta hit the nail on the head. They ideally guarantee people to act a certain way, but they don’t in reality. People break the law all-the-time. I mean, people murder each other, a lot.
I think Italian data is useful as a resource and context.
I believe it should be requested not enforced. I think we just have a very different perspective on the government’s role here.
I mean, this probably warrants an entire thread all it’s own, lol.
Agreed. So are people with the flu.
That sounds pleasant.
Does anyone know if the ban on gatherings of 10, 50, 500 people that were put into place also to political gatherings/protests? Aka right to assemble.