I think anyone who knew someone who owned a family breakfast restaurant or package goods store has the same stories.
“Gus’s Package Goods”
“Pete’s Taproom”
“Sam’s Tavern and Liquors”
I spent most of my time on the north and northwest side.
Its mine, I’ll send you some details of how you can transfer it.
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They’re some of the most boring places to be. I fell asleep at one.
This is normally my response when people, a lot of people, think it’s appropriate to take a person’s freedom from them, violate their constitutional rights, and fine or jail them because they’re sick.
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Total deaths now estimated at 60k
maybe you don’t fully understand the concept that society is not made up of a single individual, and restrictions are needed when someone’s excercising of their freedom can put others at risk (even of death).
if you are infected with a highly contagious and possibly deadly disease, you ought to stay away from other people. period. other people cannot know in advance to avoid you because you are contagious, and their right not to be infected isn’t less important than yours to go out.
staying home, you have all the comfort you need and there’s people that’ll take care of you as a job (at least here it’s that way), with the due precautionary measures.
sure, you cannot (in most cases) take people’s freedom away a priori, or pre-emptively, but if someone is known to have the virus because they tested positive to it, they MUST NOT go out, because there are prioritis, and not infecting a bunch of people, some of which may die as a result of it, is on a higher level on the priority scale than exercising your right to leave your house for a couple of weeks.
i hope neither you not any of your loved ones catch the virus, but if you or your children got infected because some douchebag that knew they were infected just decided that they didn’t give a fuck and went out, would you go up to them and shake their hand, telling them you are proud of how much of a free citizen they are?
this is a completely false argument.
people are NOT getting fined of jailed becaue they are sick. they are getting fined or jailed because they go out despite knowing they are highly contagious.
and it’s the right thing. in the italian criminal code, there’s a crime called “epidemy:” someone is guilty of it if they willingly infect other people with a pathogen. years ago, someone was convicted of it and sentenced to lifetime imprisonment because he had HIV and went around trying to fuck as many women as possible to spread it, resulting in the death of tens of women.
there is also the crime “involuntary epidemy,” which is what people are being charged of here for going out and breaking a quarantine. if you have a virus that can easily be passed onto others, and you know you can indeed kill someone by passing it onto them, do you really think you should be allowed to go out until you are not contagious anymore?
these laws are in place to protect people from individuals that want to “exercise their freedom” in a highly harmful way to others. then it’s not only about freedom anymore.
it baffles me that this even needs to be said.
What would your preferred response to the outbreak be?
There are a number of contagious communicable disease that put others at risk.
We don’t lock people in their homes during flu season. Last full year of data (2016-2017) we (USA) had 14M medical visits, 500k hospitalizations, and 38k deaths. 2017-2018 is estimated have been worse, 21M, 810k, and 61k respectively. Should people be allowed to leave their houses with the flu?
How about H1N1, no stay home orders no fines/jail time (that I remember): 60M cases, 274k hospitalizations, 12k deaths.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html
You should go back and read what I wrote because this is exactly what I said.
This is an impossible standard.
In your opinion.
Wrong. Where I live, you can be fined up to $5k or jailed up to 1 year if you leave your house for what is deemed unessential travel. That is what a stay home order is. It has NOTHING to do with whether you have COVID-19 or not.
In your opinion.
I literally could not care less what’s in the Italian criminal code.
Yes, protection from the government with their shinning historical records of humanity.
People act like adults… Follow suggested guidelines like social distancing, teleworking if possible, etc… Was your hands. Wear a mask if you feel it’s necessary. Limit exposure. I certainly don’t think sending people to jail for leaving their house is appropriate.
I literally could not care less about what happens where you live.
And once again, a fallacy in your argument. We were talking about restrictions in place for people positive to the virus. The confinement order for everyone is another matter.
How has it affected me?
From a work standpoint, I work in an essential industry (electrical utility) so I’m still working, although we’re keeping as many people working from home as possible. Right now I just got done working two weeks from home while my counterpart supervisor was on site, and now I’m in the middle of my 2 weeks on site. If we reach a predetermined indicator, we’ll go on lockdown and go to completely minimum staffing to keep the plant running, but right now we’re still performing necessary maintenance.
From a local standpoint, Burlington KS, a town of about 3,000, has the third highest incidence of Coronavirus cases in the state of Kansas (behind 2 much larger cities in the Kansas City metro area). The majority of those originated through the Life Care Center, our assisted living facility. There have been 3 deaths so far, and I’m sure more are coming.
From a personal standpoint, My neighbor (and good friend)'s wife was in the assisted living facility, and she’s currently infected, in ICU on a ventilator, and it’s questionable whether she’ll make it. (I haven’t talked to him since Tuesday, so hopefully she’s still hanging in there). 2 of my kids work in food service and are still working. Another of my kids is self-quarantined at home because of being high risk, as a type I diabetic. I’m still able to train since I have a fairly good garage gym, which is helping me stay sane.
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No, we weren’t. Try following a conversation if you’re going to interject your opinion.
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This was my preferred response as well. It appears to have failed to halt the virus in every country it has been tried in though. Once it becomes evident that this is a failing policy, what would be your preferred course of action?
This one is actually like brand new. By what ever means, it made the leap from non-human contagion to human contagion, which makes it extremely unpredictable and virtually unknown.
Also the way it kills is exceptionally pernicious.
I see a lot of people expressing frustration with this, but I kind of appreciate the compliance with these current recommendations due to the fact that I’m in a higher risk category.
It’s kinda stressful. I wanna go get some eggs for Easter and coffee and stuff but I don’t like my wife crying like I might die from going to the grocery store because I might pick up a deadly virus.
How screwed up is that? I’ve barely broken these stents in and might end up wasting them anyways (lifetime guarantee!).
Did it fail or did we jump the gun on mandatory stay-home orders? I don’t think people took it seriously at first because people don’t generally understand how exponential growth works and when there are 50k cases and 1,000 dead it doesn’t seem like that big of a deal.
What is my preferred action after that? Anything and everything within the law is fine by me. Shutting down public transportation, non-essential business, etc… is, as far as I can tell, within the authority of state Governors. It’s not ideal, but at least it’s legal.
I don’t think people are really understanding me. I think people should comply with recommendations. I have an issue with recommendations becoming mandates backed by force.
I’ve left my house 3 times in 3.5 weeks to pick-up groceries because I have a +65 at my house, a wife, and two young kids. I don’t want to bring the virus home to them so I am complying with the recommendations of the Governor, CDC, WHO, etc… We even leave non-perishable’s in our garage for a week to make sure there is no contamination.
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I’m trying man, I’m just a little short on coffee and a bit hard of thinking. It’s sometimes difficult to see through the emotion of these situations.
Am I right in thinking you believe the constitution and systems of government you have in place need to be maintained in every eventuality?
Sure. And I’m not crazy about that either, but here’s what I found on a quick search:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2011-title42/html/USCODE-2011-title42-chap6A-subchapII-partG.htm
In section (e) preemption, I don’t know if it means much, but seems to go back to at least 1944 (my legalese ain’t to swift) but also makes clear that this law doesn’t supercede any state laws.
Point being, these laws have been on the books for a long time, and as history has shown, for good reason.
Now I’d like to manly the fuck out of some freedom just as much as anybody, I just don’t want to kill anybody else while I’m doing it, as do most people.
Maybe a more scholarly person with some legal background could give us some insights into the history and application of these laws if they aren’t too busy, but it’s pretty clear that the precedent has been set for a long time.
We’re just feeling the pinch for the first time in possibly a 1-2 generations. My dad used to tell me about stuff like this from when he was a kid, but he was born in 1935.
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I use crypto currency.
Download shake pay app and you and whoever else can convert cash to crypto using etransfer then send eachothers wallets crypto convert back and withdraw lol
Short of an end of the world situation, yes. I actually think it is more important to maintain the Constitution during times of crisis. It’s during these times that the government has the easiest time for government overreach. And I don’t even necessarily think government overreaches on purpose. For example, I think GWB was doing what he thought was right for America when he signed the Patriotic Act, but as I said in the other thread it was a huge mistake in hindsight.
@SkyzykS
Yes, the government has some legal leeway when it comes to quarantine law. I’m not denying that at all. As I said, I’m fine with the government acting within the authority they have been given, but stay-home laws are a clear violation of the 1st amendment, which has been incorporated.
Agreed, but I think there’s a lot of nuisance in this statement to consider.
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I’m really at a loss to be honest. A portion of the population thinks police forces across the country consistently abuse their power (BLM for example). A potion of the population thinks Trump is an authoritarian. Is there an honest member of Congress? Joe Biden was recently accused of rape and he’s probably the Dem nominee (although he deserves Due Process). ______ insert probably a million examples or corruption by politicians.
But we’re cool with them “temporarily” pausing Constitutional rights? It just does not compute for me.
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I’m not American, so my grasp of constitutional law etc. is minimal. I was asking questions to try and understand your mindset on this. I think I’m getting there.
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