How Does Heaven Work

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

You either created a short circuit between hot and neutral or a ground fault between hot and ground. Either way, you took the load (resistance) out of the equation and allowed more amps to flow through the circuit than the overcurrent protection was rated for, so it “blew”.

As for the “danger”, it’s all dependent upon the path. The average human body is between 800 and 1000 ohms of resistance, so generally, at 120/240v, there has to be a pretty clear path to ground (sweaty hands, standing in water, etc…) and even then the path it takes through your body is kinda random. The correct answer is “yes”, you were in danger because it only takes 10mA to stop your heart IF IT FLOWS THROUGH YOUR HEART. If it doesn’t, and we’ve all been shocked before and have been fine, then you only experience a shock and possibly a small burn. But IF it had managed to find a path across your chest, you COULD have been in trouble…

The primary danger that I deal with is Arc Flash. I very rarely work on “energized” equipment where I am in danger of being shocked. But I regularly open and close very large switching devices (upwards of 3000A @ 480V). If one of those mechanically assisted make/break mechanisms fail, and it crosses phase to phase or phase to ground, the explosion is pretty fucking intense…[/quote]

You obviously know exactly what the fuck you’re talking about.

Now, here’s a scenario: I–and I don’t know the first thing about electrical wiring–start telling you you’re wrong on all these points, and I do it using language that obviously betrays my incompetence on the matter.

I’m pretty sure you would tell me to shut the fuck up because I don’t know what I’m talking about.

Now, this doesn’t excuse pretentiousness or arrogance and, of course, many political debates come down to opinion/interpretation. But when somebody starts making an argument that is so uninformed as to be illegitimate, the proper response is to point this out.

Note that this isn’t meant to analogize to you. Despite disagreeing with you pretty often, I have always thought you were smart. I’m just defending the legitimacy, in general, of telling someone who isn’t equipped to make a particular argument that they aren’t equipped to make that particular argument.

To take but one of many examples, this is why I tend to stay out of health care debates. Because I’m not equipped to talk about health care policy issues in any but the most general terms.

102

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
AC, I am going to start a thread on electrical problems just saw you can throw out the “You are unqualified to speak on this, should I write this in crayon” phrasing whenever you want. Should be a good vent. [/quote]

That would be AWESOME! LMAO[/quote]

Ha ha ha!

I actually did that (photo) with a bobby pin once, as a kid!

Blew out the power of course.

Why is that, AC?

And, was I in any danger?

;-)[/quote]

You either created a short circuit between hot and neutral or a ground fault between hot and ground. Either way, you took the load (resistance) out of the equation and allowed more amps to flow through the circuit than the overcurrent protection was rated for, so it “blew”.

As for the “danger”, it’s all dependent upon the path. The average human body is between 800 and 1000 ohms of resistance, so generally, at 120/240v, there has to be a pretty clear path to ground (sweaty hands, standing in water, etc…) and even then the path it takes through your body is kinda random. The correct answer is “yes”, you were in danger because it only takes 10mA to stop your heart IF IT FLOWS THROUGH YOUR HEART. If it doesn’t, and we’ve all been shocked before and have been fine, then you only experience a shock and possibly a small burn. But IF it had managed to find a path across your chest, you COULD have been in trouble…

The primary danger that I deal with is Arc Flash. I very rarely work on “energized” equipment where I am in danger of being shocked. But I regularly open and close very large switching devices (upwards of 3000A @ 480V). If one of those mechanically assisted make/break mechanisms fail, and it crosses phase to phase or phase to ground, the explosion is pretty fucking intense…[/quote]

This is why I work on low voltage DC.[/quote]

^ This guy is WAY smarter than the average bear! LOL

I started off doing motor controls (24vAC, 0 - 10vDC, 4 - 20mA) and worked my way up from there. I miss 24v… It’s just a pleasant tingling sensation when it hits you. LOL

But my dumb ass just HAD to move up to switchgear work… LOL

103

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

You either created a short circuit between hot and neutral or a ground fault between hot and ground. Either way, you took the load (resistance) out of the equation and allowed more amps to flow through the circuit than the overcurrent protection was rated for, so it “blew”.

As for the “danger”, it’s all dependent upon the path. The average human body is between 800 and 1000 ohms of resistance, so generally, at 120/240v, there has to be a pretty clear path to ground (sweaty hands, standing in water, etc…) and even then the path it takes through your body is kinda random. The correct answer is “yes”, you were in danger because it only takes 10mA to stop your heart IF IT FLOWS THROUGH YOUR HEART. If it doesn’t, and we’ve all been shocked before and have been fine, then you only experience a shock and possibly a small burn. But IF it had managed to find a path across your chest, you COULD have been in trouble…

The primary danger that I deal with is Arc Flash. I very rarely work on “energized” equipment where I am in danger of being shocked. But I regularly open and close very large switching devices (upwards of 3000A @ 480V). If one of those mechanically assisted make/break mechanisms fail, and it crosses phase to phase or phase to ground, the explosion is pretty fucking intense…[/quote]

You obviously know exactly what the fuck you’re talking about.

Now, here’s a scenario: I–and I don’t know the first thing about electrical wiring–start telling you you’re wrong on all these points, and I do it using language that obviously betrays my incompetence on the matter.

I’m pretty sure you would tell me to shut the fuck up because I don’t know what I’m talking about.

Now, this doesn’t excuse pretentiousness or arrogance and, of course, many political debates come down to opinion/interpretation. But when somebody starts making an argument that is so uninformed as to be illegitimate, the proper response is to point this out.

Note that this isn’t meant to analogize to you. Despite disagreeing with you pretty often, I have always thought you were smart. I’m just defending the legitimacy, in general, of telling someone who isn’t equipped to make a particular argument that they aren’t equipped to make that particular argument.

To take but one of many examples, this is why I tend to stay out of health care debates. Because I’m not equipped to talk about health care policy issues in any but the most general terms.[/quote]

Fair enough. And for the record, you and I agree on a lot more than you think. Sometimes I choose to argue the “other side” as an intellectual exercise. I always read every one of your posts - you are one of my favorite posters. I’ve learned more about a wide range of things from you, SM, Pat, Bis, CB, JB, and many others than I care to admit. LOL Anyway, thanks for taking the time and putting in the effort with your arguments. I, for one, appreciate it.

104

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

You either created a short circuit between hot and neutral or a ground fault between hot and ground. Either way, you took the load (resistance) out of the equation and allowed more amps to flow through the circuit than the overcurrent protection was rated for, so it “blew”.

As for the “danger”, it’s all dependent upon the path. The average human body is between 800 and 1000 ohms of resistance, so generally, at 120/240v, there has to be a pretty clear path to ground (sweaty hands, standing in water, etc…) and even then the path it takes through your body is kinda random. The correct answer is “yes”, you were in danger because it only takes 10mA to stop your heart IF IT FLOWS THROUGH YOUR HEART. If it doesn’t, and we’ve all been shocked before and have been fine, then you only experience a shock and possibly a small burn. But IF it had managed to find a path across your chest, you COULD have been in trouble…

The primary danger that I deal with is Arc Flash. I very rarely work on “energized” equipment where I am in danger of being shocked. But I regularly open and close very large switching devices (upwards of 3000A @ 480V). If one of those mechanically assisted make/break mechanisms fail, and it crosses phase to phase or phase to ground, the explosion is pretty fucking intense…[/quote]

You obviously know exactly what the fuck you’re talking about.

Now, here’s a scenario: I–and I don’t know the first thing about electrical wiring–start telling you you’re wrong on all these points, and I do it using language that obviously betrays my incompetence on the matter.

I’m pretty sure you would tell me to shut the fuck up because I don’t know what I’m talking about.

Now, this doesn’t excuse pretentiousness or arrogance and, of course, many political debates come down to opinion/interpretation. But when somebody starts making an argument that is so uninformed as to be illegitimate, the proper response is to point this out.

Note that this isn’t meant to analogize to you. Despite disagreeing with you pretty often, I have always thought you were smart. I’m just defending the legitimacy, in general, of telling someone who isn’t equipped to make a particular argument that they aren’t equipped to make that particular argument.

To take but one of many examples, this is why I tend to stay out of health care debates. Because I’m not equipped to talk about health care policy issues in any but the most general terms.[/quote]

Fair enough. And for the record, you and I agree on a lot more than you think. Sometimes I choose to argue the “other side” as an intellectual exercise. I always read every one of your posts - you are one of my favorite posters. I’ve learned more about a wide range of things from you, SM, Pat, Bis, CB, JB, and many others than I care to admit. LOL Anyway, thanks for taking the time and putting in the effort with your arguments. I, for one, appreciate it.[/quote]

Back at you man!