How Do You View Soreness?

Training Bodybuilding
41

Soreness is not a nutritional issue!!!Where the fuck did you get that idea x-factor?

No matter how overfed you are if you are doing some form of novel movement or returning to a movement after a layoff you will get sore unless you lift 30% of your 1rm and feel no fatigue.

DOMS is caused(in part) by excess Ca2+ ions which are released from the sarcoplasmic reticulum during muscle contraction,facilitating the actin and myosin attachment and detachment cycle which IS muscle contraction.The excess Ca2+ ions attack the sarcoplasmic membrane causing damage and inflammation,hence soreness.After a week or 2 the muscles develop a regulalatory protein which mops up the ions and causes the soreness to almost disappear.Soreness won’t result again until there is EXCESS Ca2+ due to excessive exercise,greater mechanical load,or a new movement,or you have a layoff.

Mechanical damage and lactic acid may also be involved,and probably is after a layoff depending how hard you worked out.

Adequate nutrition will not stop this damage.It may help with resolution but it will not prevent it.Where did you get your exercise physiology degree by the way?

I agree with Bauer and see it as a sign of progress,and so I think does Chad Waterbury.Just try not to get crippled by it.I know,we all do it,just try to manage it.If you’ve been training for more than 5 years you should be able to do this by now.

42

I’d love to see a round table about this, as its often something I’ve wondered about.

I recently got back lifting after 3 weeks off (oral surgery with a nasty complication kept me from physical exertion), and I’m sore as hell right now, but I’ll lift again tomorrow.
When it’s getting ‘back’ into lifting, I find I’ll lift afew days to warm up (ie, 3 x 10), take a couple days off, ‘test the waters’ by lifting heavier, and see how sore I am.

Being sore can be good or bad, IMHO – if you’re new, and you’re sore from over-exertion (without your body being used to the weight), then it’s ‘bad.’ If you’re sore from incorporating a new lift, as long as you ease into heavier weights, it’s ‘good.’

People would have a lot less problems training if they listened acutely to the messages their body sent, IMHO.

43

Agreed on the roundtable part, would love to see that.

I’ve noticed personally that ‘soreness’ is always on a higher level after a layoff, or infrequent training as mentioned prior in this thread. Bulk or cut cycles didn’t factor in much.

I’ve had those 5-6 day soreness periods really only on squats. That was only after not squatting for like a month then going really heavy squats when I did return to do it. Walking around like a gimp is no fun.

I have noticed doing higher frequency lately that the soreness clears up much quicker then on lower frequency. No idea why, perhaps the higher frequency training is not as heavy as the low frequency.

Just common knowledge though that you will be sore as hell after a layoff. Hope this helps =)

44

[quote]Harry Flashman wrote:
Soreness is not a nutritional issue!!!Where the fuck did you get that idea x-factor?

No matter how overfed you are if you are doing some form of novel movement or returning to a movement after a layoff you will get sore unless you lift 30% of your 1rm and feel no fatigue.

DOMS is caused(in part) by excess Ca2+ ions which are released from the sarcoplasmic reticulum during muscle contraction,facilitating the actin and myosin attachment and detachment cycle which IS muscle contraction.The excess Ca2+ ions attack the sarcoplasmic membrane causing damage and inflammation,hence soreness.After a week or 2 the muscles develop a regulalatory protein which mops up the ions and causes the soreness to almost disappear.Soreness won’t result again until there is EXCESS Ca2+ due to excessive exercise,greater mechanical load,or a new movement,or you have a layoff.

Mechanical damage and lactic acid may also be involved,and probably is after a layoff depending how hard you worked out.

Adequate nutrition will not stop this damage.It may help with resolution but it will not prevent it.Where did you get your exercise physiology degree by the way?

I agree with Bauer and see it as a sign of progress,and so I think does Chad Waterbury.Just try not to get crippled by it.I know,we all do it,just try to manage it.If you’ve been training for more than 5 years you should be able to do this by now.

[/quote]

Good post.
Now to play devils advocate.
You said “Soreness won’t result again until there is EXCESS Ca2+ due to excessive exercise,greater mechanical load,or a new movement,or you have a layoff.”

Now my question is since it will only occur again under the circumstances you have mentioned aside from Nervous system adaptations (inter and intra muscualr coordiantion, rate of coding etc.) how it is possible to get stronger or for that matter get BIGGER if you are not creating Excess CA2+ ions in the situation you mentioned?

45

[quote]Harry Flashman wrote:
Soreness is not a nutritional issue!!!Where the fuck did you get that idea x-factor?

No matter how overfed you are if you are doing some form of novel movement or returning to a movement after a layoff you will get sore unless you lift 30% of your 1rm and feel no fatigue.

DOMS is caused(in part) by excess Ca2+ ions which are released from the sarcoplasmic reticulum during muscle contraction,facilitating the actin and myosin attachment and detachment cycle which IS muscle contraction.The excess Ca2+ ions attack the sarcoplasmic membrane causing damage and inflammation,hence soreness.After a week or 2 the muscles develop a regulalatory protein which mops up the ions and causes the soreness to almost disappear.Soreness won’t result again until there is EXCESS Ca2+ due to excessive exercise,greater mechanical load,or a new movement,or you have a layoff.

Mechanical damage and lactic acid may also be involved,and probably is after a layoff depending how hard you worked out.

Adequate nutrition will not stop this damage.It may help with resolution but it will not prevent it.Where did you get your exercise physiology degree by the way?

I agree with Bauer and see it as a sign of progress,and so I think does Chad Waterbury.Just try not to get crippled by it.I know,we all do it,just try to manage it.If you’ve been training for more than 5 years you should be able to do this by now.

[/quote]

Wtf is wrong with you? When did I say that he is sore from not eating right. I said the reason he is sore for “so long” is probably nutrition. I don’t find that I stay sore for up to a week EVER if I eat right no matter what the stimulis…as for your little song and dance there, I essentially said the same thing in my first post without sounding like a dick and trying to make myself superior.

It’s funny, all you guys go out and pay thousands for your “physiology” degrees, whereas I can jsut accumlate a late fee of about $100 on books from the library…oh but wait, you get a piece of paper to keep…just because you may have any kind of degree does not make you shit in my eyes.

All that crap you posted I can regurgitate from reading Gary G. Matthews’ “Cellular Physiology of Nerve and Muscle”. And I don’t have to pay for it…why do idiots like you have to come and throw around their “intellect” (for lack of a better word) and cause all kinds of shit. Quite honestly you’re a moron in many aspects, i’d even vouch to say you’re a societal retard.

46

[quote]Harry Flashman wrote:
Soreness is not a nutritional issue!!!Where the fuck did you get that idea x-factor?

No matter how overfed you are if you are doing some form of novel movement or returning to a movement after a layoff you will get sore unless you lift 30% of your 1rm and feel no fatigue.

DOMS is caused(in part) by excess Ca2+ ions which are released from the sarcoplasmic reticulum during muscle contraction,facilitating the actin and myosin attachment and detachment cycle which IS muscle contraction.The excess Ca2+ ions attack the sarcoplasmic membrane causing damage and inflammation,hence soreness.After a week or 2 the muscles develop a regulalatory protein which mops up the ions and causes the soreness to almost disappear.Soreness won’t result again until there is EXCESS Ca2+ due to excessive exercise,greater mechanical load,or a new movement,or you have a layoff.

Mechanical damage and lactic acid may also be involved,and probably is after a layoff depending how hard you worked out.

Adequate nutrition will not stop this damage.It may help with resolution but it will not prevent it.Where did you get your exercise physiology degree by the way?

I agree with Bauer and see it as a sign of progress,and so I think does Chad Waterbury.Just try not to get crippled by it.I know,we all do it,just try to manage it.If you’ve been training for more than 5 years you should be able to do this by now.

[/quote]

sorry, flashman, degree or no degree, you’re wrong.

outside of “beginner’s soreness” meaning some sedentary bastard got of the couch and did as much in 2 hours as he has down for the last 5 years… outside of that, soreness IS a nutritional issue.

you must remember that in “official” education you learn OLD material.

the performance athletes, training at the peak of their sport, are generally much better to talk to about improving performance (and other training issues like doms) than some “guy with a degree.”

if you had asked him “where are all of your trophies from decades of wrestling, to finish at the collegiate level, and then go on to the national level? where are yours?”

then i’d have raised an eyebrow and listened a little closer.

but your piece of paper is a piece of paper.

to throw it in this guy’s face is simply a sign of some kind of weird insecurity.