How Crazy Can Mental Toughness Get?

Training
41

To Pinta:

I am reading humble’s post more as a statement about over analysis and false diagnosis being as damaging or more damaging to individuals and culture as a whole than ignoring, or under treating. Sort of a more strongly worded way of the joke about “therapist” being just a “little distance(space)” away from “the rapist”. Seeing mental issues and trauma, and then treating it as such, where a tall glass of “Fuck It, Drive On” would do better can lead to poor outcomes both in individual, public health circumstances.

I want to use the phrase “nosocomial” to describe pathology caused by exposure to health care, not the same as a side effect, but the literature has moved to reserve that solely for infectious diseases. I will note that I have seen many cases of physical “disability” that appear to have been helped along by over zealous restrictions and treatment. Essentially, convincing the patient that they are more “broken” than they where, leading to deconditioning, and further issues.

When humble wrote about the damage of psychology on society I thought he was going there, and not trying to make a statement that emotions/thoughts/mental issues don’t exist/don’t matter. Of course I could be wrong. I haven’t had any coffee, and even at my best I can be about as sharp as a soccer ball.

To humble:
I think Pinta has written that English is not his first language before. I seem to think I remember that he is in Argentina. I think they speak Spanish in Argentina. Though I know that Madonna sang in English in that horrible movie about the Peron’s I got tricked into watching.

Did I mention I haven’t had any coffee?

Regards,

Robert A

42

If that is the case regarding pinta’s English, then apologies from this not so caffeinated chap as well, but still everything else was written well enough that I’d think even in Spanish quarters, psychotic would be an easy one in the discipline of psychology to remember.

Ahh, the art of reading. Again you understood the quote of mine Rob.

Seems Aussie Davo didn’t as well. C’mon Dave, you know what we say around here…teaspoon of cement dust mate.
Too much of modern day diagnosis is tainted with the bs of big pharma, the outright and blatant falsity of the DSM and the govt handshakes for further human control through subjugation. This doesn’t discount the true and very real conditions that do exist but merely points out that quite a majority of them are false cases pushed upon humans until they are stigmatised into believing they actually do have conditions.

43

[quote]idaho wrote:
A Army officer was engaged in combat, when his squad was ambushed by insurgents. During the fire fight, a grenade was throw into his area, he grabbed it and threw it back, but, it exploded about three feet in the air, blowing off is hand. He tied off the stump, and continued to call in air support on his hand held radio, and, continued to direct his troops, while still under fire. That is doing your job as a professional, that is “mental toughness” to the degree that most people can only dream about. [/quote]

Leroy Petry isn’t an officer but an NCO.

44

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]jj-dude wrote:
I showed him how to do a standing ude garami (really nasty old school technique against a sword, aka kimura). So what does he do? He resists as hard as possible. Mind you I am standing with his arm pretzeled and if I finish the technique (by dropping to a knee) I am quite sure the torque will dislocate his shoulder.[/quote]

jj-dude,

Please forgive the hijack, but I am having trouble picturing what droping to the knee buys you.

I am familiar, and practiced, with standing ude garami techniques where the shoulder is externally rotated(a la a “high five position”, usually called an American by the BJJ set, or a top wrist lock by the catch wrestling/shootfighting crew) where dropping down either affects a take down if done politely, or a trip to the orthopod if done with more enthusiasm.

However when it comes to standing “kimura” techniques the joint destructions I am familiar with leave you standing, the the “dropping” techniques tend to be sacrifice throws.

Could you sort of walk me through it. I apologize if it is obvious, I haven’t had any coffee yet.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

The Americana looks like this, right?

(which I would not classify as a joint lock per se, but simply a wrap). The BJJ version requires a lift of the hips, so I can certainly see why you are scratching your head, Roughly what I did is here:

(starting at about 7:50) which has the levering action from on top of the arm. The position of the arms is such that you can literally do a pullup on your opponent. In the video, he grabs the guys other arm for a throw, I did not. I would have simply dropped to one knee and finished the rotation of the arm by 180 degree. You can see where if the opponent were to brace himself and try to remain standing, he’d get quite a gruesome dislocation.

One other little thing to consider. In classical jujutsu and aiki jujutsu systems there are, actually, no throws. This was related to me by the Japanese headmaster of our system. The intent is always a direct head slam or drastic limb damage. Modifying these to make it so the opponent (uke) has a chance to roll is how safety was introduced to the systems. Really authentic systems do most pins with their feet to remain standing (and one aim of getting into position the way they do is dislocations), so you have both arms free to cut off his armor and collect a head for the reward. Later uses of floor pins came about in police work (taiho jutsu) and judo and BJJ descend from that.

Since you might appreciate it, some really traditional pins start in the above video at 3:25. FWIW this is generally a fun video of some actual aiki jujutsu. Very, very different from aikido or jujutsu.

Hope this helps…
– jj

45

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:
A Army officer was engaged in combat, when his squad was ambushed by insurgents. During the fire fight, a grenade was throw into his area, he grabbed it and threw it back, but, it exploded about three feet in the air, blowing off is hand. He tied off the stump, and continued to call in air support on his hand held radio, and, continued to direct his troops, while still under fire. That is doing your job as a professional, that is “mental toughness” to the degree that most people can only dream about. [/quote]

Leroy Petry isn’t an officer but an NCO. [/quote]
correct: I did that on purpose because this is not a secure forum and i did not have his permission to use his name.

46

I think people make it much more sexy then it often really is.

You just see it as I have 3-5 minutes to do what i’ve been training for. He has 3-5 minutes to prove he’s better. So lets see who can produce a better 3-5 minutes. In those 3-5 minutes all you think about is how to win. The adrenaline and all that tends to make you forget the fight and ignore (or not even feel the pain). Usually by the 2nd you dont even know what round your in.

It’s not so much about toughness - it is about discipline. As soon as you get punched in the face your game plan goes out the window and you see how well you trained. Your training becomes your reflection in the ring or fight.

47

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
From what I have seen - and I know A LOT of fighters - they’re some of the most mentally fragile, childlike people I’ve ever met.

Real mental toughness is forged in a different way than punching people.[/quote]

I agree.

I find myself cracking a smile when one of the pros I train with is telling me to be “mentally tough”, say when we are doing rounds of sparring getting ready for a fight (fighter staying in getting fresh opponents every few min). But this is the same guy who threw a fit and a vanished in his Jeep for three days because he was so stressed/perturbed by contract negotiations with his promoter.

Is that mental toughness? Guy can take a beating, but can’t deal with ‘life’ on any terms but his own…

48

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:
A Army officer was engaged in combat, when his squad was ambushed by insurgents. During the fire fight, a grenade was throw into his area, he grabbed it and threw it back, but, it exploded about three feet in the air, blowing off is hand. He tied off the stump, and continued to call in air support on his hand held radio, and, continued to direct his troops, while still under fire. That is doing your job as a professional, that is “mental toughness” to the degree that most people can only dream about. [/quote]

Leroy Petry isn’t an officer but an NCO. [/quote]
correct: I did that on purpose because this is not a secure forum and i did not have his permission to use his name.[/quote]
It’s OK…it’s an NCO thing.

49

jj-dude,

Thanks. That clears it up. I LOVE that technique. I learned to enter into it off of a kotegaesha some 17 years ago and it has been a favorite ever since.

I think the BJJ guys use Americana as sort of a catch all for any shoulder lock where there is external rotation and kimura for internal rotation though. So, I would anglo-BJJ label that one as an “americana”. Hopefully zecarlo can weigh in on this one.

Regards,

Robert A

50

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
From what I have seen - and I know A LOT of fighters - they’re some of the most mentally fragile, childlike people I’ve ever met.

Real mental toughness is forged in a different way than punching people.[/quote]

I agree.

I find myself cracking a smile when one of the pros I train with is telling me to be “mentally tough”, say when we are doing rounds of sparring getting ready for a fight (fighter staying in getting fresh opponents every few min). But this is the same guy who threw a fit and a vanished in his Jeep for three days because he was so stressed/perturbed by contract negotiations with his promoter.

Is that mental toughness? Guy can take a beating, but can’t deal with ‘life’ on any terms but his own…[/quote]

LOL ohhhh yea man, that story sounds familiar. Or you can’t get in contact with him for two weeks because of a mysterious illness… or they get themselves down to “just two or three” CIGARETTES a day because “quitting’s hard.”

I think this is one of those things fighters can fool you on when you don’t know them, but if you spend enough time in the gym you see that a lot of them are EXACTLY like this.

51

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
From what I have seen - and I know A LOT of fighters - they’re some of the most mentally fragile, childlike people I’ve ever met.

Real mental toughness is forged in a different way than punching people.[/quote]

I agree.

I find myself cracking a smile when one of the pros I train with is telling me to be “mentally tough”, say when we are doing rounds of sparring getting ready for a fight (fighter staying in getting fresh opponents every few min). But this is the same guy who threw a fit and a vanished in his Jeep for three days because he was so stressed/perturbed by contract negotiations with his promoter.

Is that mental toughness? Guy can take a beating, but can’t deal with ‘life’ on any terms but his own…[/quote]

LOL ohhhh yea man, that story sounds familiar. Or you can’t get in contact with him for two weeks because of a mysterious illness… or they get themselves down to “just two or three” CIGARETTES a day because “quitting’s hard.”

I think this is one of those things fighters can fool you on when you don’t know them, but if you spend enough time in the gym you see that a lot of them are EXACTLY like this.[/quote]

A relevant quote I once read from a pro basketball player – don’t remember who. Someone asked him why he spent so much time shooting hoops as a kid and then went pro. His response was that he came from a really bad home and that “the gym is the only place life makes sense.” I.e., it is a closed/controlled environment that is a surrogate for the outside world. Most of us hopefully never get to that point, but I do think it applies to the many of the most ardent gym rats I’ve met.

– jj