[quote]Rockscar wrote:
msd0060 wrote:
For the record, I am against this bill in its entirety. .
Dude, you just backed up the mandate and fines, which is a major issue, and now this? Are you running for office or what?
[/quote]
They want you to buy into the public option at the least. I think the mandate should be for buying private insurance (that has no state boundary for competition).
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
JPCleary wrote:
So where can you go to see who voted Yay and who voted Nay?
Unofficial:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/11/08/us/politics/AP-US-House-RollCall-Health-Care.html
Official:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll887.xml[/quote]
Or to present it more succintly than providing the full list, every Democrat voted for it (or failed to vote) except for:
Adler, Altmire, Baird, Barrow, Boccieri, Boren, Boucher, Boyd, Bright, Chandler, Childers, Davis (AL), Davis (TN), Edwards (TX), Gordon (TN), Griffith, Herseth Sandlin, Holden, Kissel, Kosmas, Kratovil, Kucinich, Markey (CO), Marshall, Massa, Matheson, McIntyre, McMahon, Melancon, Minnick, Murphy (NY), Nye, Peterson, Ross, Shuler, Skelton, Tanner, Tayler, and Teague.
Every other Democrat voted for – or failed to vote against, but the great majority in fact voted for – a plan which will drive insurance cost for a family of four up to $15K per year according to the CBO, and which will fine you $25,000 if you not buy it, and imprison you for up to 5 years if you do not pay the fine.
No Republican voted for it except for Cao, who perhaps is going for the “2009 RINO of the Year” Award.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
JPCleary wrote:
So where can you go to see who voted Yay and who voted Nay?
Unofficial:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/11/08/us/politics/AP-US-House-RollCall-Health-Care.html
Official:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll887.xml[/quote]
Gracias…
[quote]pushharder wrote:
I cannot for the life of me believe there are many who think someone should have $25,000 of their assets confiscated by the almighty power of the Internal Revenue Service and/or rot in a federal prison for up to five years because they chose not to buy health insurance. It simply floors me.
There is simply no way to claim we live in a free society if this bill becomes law. It would be a clear cut sign we live in a semi-totalitarian state.[/quote]
The very fact that such a bill passed the House shows that we have a semi-totalitarian political party in control of both Congress and the White House.
Or perhaps more precisely, a political party that is split 219:39 on being semi-totalitarian.
[quote]msd0060 wrote:
Most people do not make enough money to be self-insured nor can be trusted to self-insure so as to not become a burden of the rest of society when they fuck up spectacularly. [/quote]
No a real solution to your problem would be to allow hospitals to run as a business and decline service, if you don’t have insurance, or a bond in place of, or proof of payment, they can say know and have no liability. But everyone is so against that, because they are not the ones having the services they provide as their livelihood stolen without compensation.
Not only that one of these scumbags can show up no insurance, no intention to pay and if they have a reaction or something doesn’t work how they expected they get to file suite.
If people started to realize there was a very real chance of them dying without anyone trying to help them, they may be a little more responsible for their health and their life,
yeah right not the freaking winners we are breeding and training in our society today, hell what we should really do is remove alot of treatments and allow the genepool to reset itself again.
Still not understanding why I should be taxed for someone else’s problems.
Perhaps because the politicians in question figure they were not going to get your vote anyway, but they believe this will gain votes from their natural constituency of limousine liberals, academic effetes, persons paying no income tax, illegal aliens, and felons.
[quote]Spikeman wrote:
Still not understanding why I should be taxed for someone else’s problems. [/quote]
wealready are it’s called welfare, medical assistance, section 8 housing, housing assitance, prison. There are so many social programs funded by robbing people who are productive members of society.
In our area it was black gangs moving out of the city that were bringing problems , now we have the russian mafia coming in, they are 1000x worse. They will walk up to you broad day light shoot you int he face and walk away not caring who is there. They have millions in illegal money, unlike the gangs who have thousands, and you still pay for their food housing and medical care.
[quote]Spikeman wrote:
Still not understanding why I should be taxed for someone else’s problems. [/quote]
Because the America you thought you lived in died around 1935.
I remember reading a quote from a libertarian writer awhile back that went:
‘Your liberty ends at the tip of your nose.’
I think that, while being catchy, it’s not accurate enough. I’d like to amend it to:
‘Your liberty AND authority end at the tip of your nose.’
Honestly, who the fuck believes that they actually have an inherent right to force or coerce anyone else into doing something aligned with their ideology? Not an assumed right, which is the case with all perceived authority (politicians, cops, teachers, bosses, etc.), but an actual inherent right like right to life, right to privacy, right to liberty, right to clean food, water and air, etc. What kind of a human being believes they have the power over another? What kind of society/culture allows this kind of oppression? What does all of this say about the people who allow it to happen through gradualism?
This BigPharma and Corporate medicine bill is just another that can be added to the list that is as long as a pimp’s dick now and which can be considered imperialistic/dictatorial/fascist/communistic. Anyone who believes that we live in a free country just because we can choose our form of wage slavery, location of oppression and fucking sports team are too deluded to help anyway.
Just for clarification: I am NOT a libertarian.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Spikeman wrote:
Still not understanding why I should be taxed for someone else’s problems.
wealready are it’s called welfare, medical assistance, section 8 housing, housing assitance, prison. There are so many social programs funded by robbing people who are productive members of society.
In our area it was black gangs moving out of the city that were bringing problems , now we have the russian mafia coming in, they are 1000x worse. They will walk up to you broad day light shoot you int he face and walk away not caring who is there. They have millions in illegal money, unlike the gangs who have thousands, and you still pay for their food housing and medical care. [/quote]
You forgot to add CHARITY CARE.
[quote]spurlock wrote:
I remember reading a quote from a libertarian writer awhile back that went:
‘Your liberty ends at the tip of your nose.’
I think that, while being catchy, it’s not accurate enough. I’d like to amend it to:
‘Your liberty AND authority end at the tip of your nose.’
Honestly, who the fuck believes that they actually have an inherent right to force or coerce anyone else into doing something aligned with their ideology? Not an assumed right, which is the case with all perceived authority (politicians, cops, teachers, bosses, etc.), but an actual inherent right like right to life, right to privacy, right to liberty, right to clean food, water and air, etc. What kind of a human being believes they have the power over another? What kind of society/culture allows this kind of oppression? What does all of this say about the people who allow it to happen through gradualism?
This BigPharma and Corporate medicine bill is just another that can be added to the list that is as long as a pimp’s dick now and which can be considered imperialistic/dictatorial/fascist/communistic. Anyone who believes that we live in a free country just because we can choose our form of wage slavery, location of oppression and fucking sports team are too deluded to help anyway.
Just for clarification: I am NOT a libertarian.[/quote]
Great points and all true.
[quote]spurlock wrote:
I remember reading a quote from a libertarian writer awhile back that went:
‘Your liberty ends at the tip of your nose.’
I think that, while being catchy, it’s not accurate enough. I’d like to amend it to:
‘Your liberty AND authority end at the tip of your nose.’
Honestly, who the fuck believes that they actually have an inherent right to force or coerce anyone else into doing something aligned with their ideology? Not an assumed right, which is the case with all perceived authority (politicians, cops, teachers, bosses, etc.), but an actual inherent right like right to life, right to privacy, right to liberty, right to clean food, water and air, etc. What kind of a human being believes they have the power over another? What kind of society/culture allows this kind of oppression? What does all of this say about the people who allow it to happen through gradualism?
This BigPharma and Corporate medicine bill is just another that can be added to the list that is as long as a pimp’s dick now and which can be considered imperialistic/dictatorial/fascist/communistic. Anyone who believes that we live in a free country just because we can choose our form of wage slavery, location of oppression and fucking sports team are too deluded to help anyway.
Just for clarification: I am NOT a libertarian.[/quote]
Are you sure?
You definitely sound like one.
Now all you have to do is to let go of your pet projects you would like to force other people to contribute to and presto! → libertarian.
I really, really, really hope some poor middle class or poor people start going to jail over this. That will be exactly what we need for this shit to be seen as the idiocy it really is. “so what you in for?” … “oh me? Ahhh I didn’t buy health insurance because I couldn’t afford it” … “what?” …" Yea, see I realize you may have been on the inside here for a while, but yea, now it is illegal to not have health insurance. Oh BTW what are you in for?" “Me? I killed two people”
Sweet!
V
Here is another thing that I can’t fathom. Your two choices, YOU pay the Government 25,000… OR they take care of your food and shelter needs for 5 years, costing them MUCH more than 25,000. I’m also sure “insurance offenders” are going to be placed in minimum security facilities. This of course is going to overcrowd them and cause others who are still not violent but maybe had some drugs or whatever to go into higher security facilities. I can’t wait for all the good this is going to bring about. I feel like I’m riding a unicorn on a rainbow and I can see the pot of gold from here!!!
V
How much do you want to bet that in Nancy Pelosi’s America, violent offenders would be released early so as to make room for those who disobeyed her?
I cannot imagine that she found no opposition within her own party – for example, let’s say among the 39 that voted against – to this provision. But she kept this in there anyway, despite the closeness of the anticipated vote.
Clearly, she had to be rather willful and determined on this provision.
It shows the real face of the Democrat leadership anyway, and of the vast majority of their House members. Maybe people will actually wake up. But I doubt it.
[quote]John S. wrote:
I sure as hell won’t pay a fine.[/quote]
Why stop there? Don’t pay your taxes either.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
I cannot for the life of me believe there are many who think someone should have $25,000 of their assets confiscated by the almighty power of the Internal Revenue Service and/or rot in a federal prison for up to five years because they chose not to buy health insurance. It simply floors me.
There is simply no way to claim we live in a free society if this bill becomes law. It would be a clear cut sign we live in a semi-totalitarian state.[/quote]
Dude, have you been asleep for the last decade?