I’d love it if anyone with a first-hand account and/or if Bill Roberts could comment on this, but any input is greatly appreciate from all members.
I’m wondering what the interaction might be and/or effect of concurrently taking M1T and HOT-ROX while on a hypocaloric dieting (cutting)? FYI, I’d keep M1T at 10 mg/d and Hot Rox at 4/day (old formula).
Here is my take:
The duty of a hormone is just to signal other bodily processes, such as enzyme production, to decrease/increase. In the case of anabolic hormones, the rate at which the body builds and repairs tissues would be increased. Now, when on a hypercaloric diet, this leads to faster muscle gains. However, when on a hypocaloric diet, this might lead to some small gains, but at least priority is given to muscle protection which means at least LBM retention.
Now add HOT-ROX to the mix. Since the body is already calling for additional calories to build muscle, but isn’t getting an optimal amount due to under-eating, wouldn’t the fat mobilization properties of HOT-ROX allow the body to use stored fat for the extra calorie needs to fulfill it’s duty in being more anabolic? Possibly making a trainee able to greatly reduce fat mass and gain at least some LBM while on both concurrently? To me, this would mean fat loss might be sped up to 3-4 pounds a week, versus the normal 1-2 pounds per week, as long as diet and exercise were appropriate.
Or, am I too excited about this hypothesis and over-looking something? Would their concurrent consumption be antagonistic instead of synergistic?
ANY and ALL comments are very welcomed (especially any first-hand accounts)!
Bro,
I’ve never taken the HOT-ROX, but know of several people who have that absolutely love it.
With regards to m1t in addition to the HOT-ROX, the m1t will definitely exhibit it’s muscle sparing properties due to the increased amount of exogenous androgens. So the bottom line is that adding m1t to a traditional HOT-ROX cycle will allow you to be a little more aggressive with your fat loss goals. This means decreasing calories beyond what you normally would w/ a HOT-ROX only cycle. YOu also would have the option to increase energy expenditure via cardio or more anaerobic workouts per week with such a protocol.
I personally would up the m1t to 15 or 20mg/ day just to be certain that no muscle is lost.
Generally the role of a steroid (like M-1-T) during dieting is to allow for a more severe caloric defecit while maintaining muscle mass.
Repartitioning (the gain of muscle while simultaneously losing fat) is definitely possible while using steroids (like M-1-T) though it requires a good understanding of your caloric requirements and a decent understanding of how to manipulate nutrient timing.
I appreciate the replies. I guess I was more looking at any possibility that they might conteract each other? Probably would take a near drug expert to answer that though.
As far as upping the M1T to 20 mg/d, I find that I can’t take the site-effects for a long enough period to make it worth taking. I recently got off a 3 week cycle with 10 mg/d and still felt EXTREMELY lethargic most of the time and got a few nauseating headaches. I did however lose 5-7 pounds of flub and gain 3-4 in LBM at only 10 mg/d. So, I know 10 mg/d is all I need.
You get fewer sides at 20 ed!!! That’s interesting… are you sure your diet and exercise were nearly the same during each dosage cycle? And how long were you on/off each cycle? Irrespective of those questions, was there anything you stacked with either dose that lessened the side effects?
Stu… I also get the same or less sides at 20mg ed as aposed to 10mg ed. If i split it evenly at 10mg when I wake and another 10mg when I go to bed I do very with the lethargy. My stomach has never been an issue in this area.
To the original poster the slight boost in mood and in energy you will get from the HOT-ROX should be enough to help you out in the side effects department.
Good luck and tell us how it goes for you.
DA
Yeah, I don’t know what was up with that either but I definitely suffered more lethargy and appetite suppression at 10mg ED than 20mg ED. Although the Crippling Lower Back Pump (CLBP) was worse at 20mg ED. Some 4-AD or various types of test work well to ward off the lethargy, though I haven’t found that they help the appetite.
Nice food for thought. I might try it as you suggested and move the second 10 mg to bed-time. I just hate the headaches - anyone get these? They are like a world champion kick-boxer delivering about 50 roundhouses to my dome!
Steak… those headaches sure don’t sound like fun. I have never gotten any headaches from it. This maybe do to higher blood pressure while on the M1T. You should check your bp before you start this cycle and then again after a few days of being on and see if it has gone up more than a point or 2. If so then find some thing to naturally lower this.
As for killer kidneys while on, just use some cranberry extract or some cranberry tea and you should be fine.
DA
Not to jack this thread but Katz or anyone else? I just ran a 2 weeker of 10-15 mgs m1t 3 weeks ago and have been on igf1 since. I’m pretty happy with the results but just got my first batch of drol. I’m wondering if it’s a bad idea to start the drol with tren and a gram of prop a week for say 4-6 weeks or should I wait a little longer for my liver to recover. I used/use milk thistle and krala both on and off. And my pct was clomid/nolva Katz style.
TopSirloin:
I’ve done exactly what you’re proposing and believe your hypothesis is correct. I actually put on 2lbs. in the three weeks I was on (218-220) and make some good progress in strength and bf%. I took 20mg M1T ed and 6 HOT-ROX. Taking only 10mg ed made me very lethargic.
The worst side effect by far was the headache. I rarely felt lethargic on 20mg, especially once I started a workout. The lower back pump was definitely intense, but tolerable. I’d say this is a winning combo if you can handle the headaches. Good Luck!
[quote]TwistedLocal wrote:
2lbs in three weeks… doesnt sound to me like its worth your time or money considering thats well within the natural range.[/quote]
Are you kidding me?! It’s well within the natural range to gain muscle and lose significant BF in the same training period??!! I don’t think so! Actually, that’s nearly impossible to do without AAS/PH’s!
The 2 pounds ClaytonBigby is talking about is NET weight gain from this cycle. Which means, he probably lost 5-6 pounds of fat and gained 7-8 pounds of LBM in that 3 week period. That is an exceptional result that probably cannot be duplicated naturally!
[quote]ClaytonBigsby wrote:
TopSirloin:
I’ve done exactly what you’re proposing and believe your hypothesis is correct. I actually put on 2lbs. in the three weeks I was on (218-220) and make some good progress in strength and bf%. I took 20mg M1T ed and 6 HOT-ROX. Taking only 10mg ed made me very lethargic.
The worst side effect by far was the headache. I rarely felt lethargic on 20mg, especially once I started a workout. The lower back pump was definitely intense, but tolerable. I’d say this is a winning combo if you can handle the headaches. Good Luck!
[/quote]
Clayton,
I really appreciate the feedback!! I’ve never got the lower back pump, just the headaches. I would love to hit some Excedrin but don’t want to put additional stress on my liver. Since they are self-induced I just suffer through them. I will get a full physical though before and aft next time. Any idea of what I can take to naturally lower blood pressure?
I’m really interested to know what your BF is and how many cals you consumed during this 3 week cycle??? Since I’m close to your weight this would be a very helpful comparison.
I’m about 226 right now, maybe I’ll try upping the HOT-ROX to 6 ED. Anyone know what side effects to look for if HOT-ROX intake is excessive?
[quote]TwistedLocal wrote:
2lbs in three weeks… doesnt sound to me like its worth your time or money considering thats well within the natural range.[/quote]
Sorry, I’ll try to clarify what I mean. Had my goal been to gain mass, I agree that 2lbs. in 3 weeks is nothing. But, that’s 2lbs. on the scale and I lost a good amount of fat as well, which was my main intention. My strength increased by about 10-20% in the big three lifts. I wish I had pictures to illustrate how drastic the change was. All I can tell you to that end is everyone who sees me on a regular basis commented on my size increase. Just a 2lb. (or <1%) increase by itself has never warranted that reaction. Most importantly, when I look in the mirror, the effects are very satisfying.
[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
ClaytonBigsby wrote:
TopSirloin:
I’ve done exactly what you’re proposing and believe your hypothesis is correct. I actually put on 2lbs. in the three weeks I was on (218-220) and make some good progress in strength and bf%. I took 20mg M1T ed and 6 HOT-ROX. Taking only 10mg ed made me very lethargic.
The worst side effect by far was the headache. I rarely felt lethargic on 20mg, especially once I started a workout. The lower back pump was definitely intense, but tolerable. I’d say this is a winning combo if you can handle the headaches. Good Luck!
Clayton,
I really appreciate the feedback!! I’ve never got the lower back pump, just the headaches. I would love to hit some Excedrin but don’t want to put additional stress on my liver. Since they are self-induced I just suffer through them. I will get a full physical though before and aft next time. Any idea of what I can take to naturally lower blood pressure?
[/quote]
I’m not qualified to answer this, but for me, taking my dog for a long walk seemed to help relieve the headaches, whereas intense cardio intensified them.
I didn’t do a before and after BF measurement, just went with a good ol’ full length mirror. I’d guess that I went from 14-15% to around 11-12%. My calories were 3800-4200, about 40% protein, 40% fat and 20% carbs. I slowly increased my intake over the three weeks and had to exercise restraint during the last week to not clean out the fridge! My maintenance is about 3500 calories.
[quote]
I’m about 226 right now, maybe I’ll try upping the HOT-ROX to 6 ED. Anyone know what side effects to look for if HOT-ROX intake is excessive?
THANKS A LOT!
TS[/quote]
At one point I tried to up my intake to the maximum dosage of 8 HOT-ROX ED. This made me very nauseous and cutting back to 6/day solved the problem completely.
I’m not trying to start a big thing here but it’s REAL common for people who’ve used HOT-ROX to gain a little muscle (like 2 lbs) while losing bodyfat. Anyone wanna give a shot at my question?
Again, I think some of you are missing the gist of this issue. If you gain 2 pounds in total body weight while simultaneously losing body fat this means you gained quite a bit MORE than 2 pounds of muscle over that period!
For example, let’s say Clayton lost 2% bodyfat in three weeks, starting at 218 and 15% down to 220 and 13% (very possible while on an androgen with the right diet and lifting). This would equal a 6.1 lb GAIN in LBM and a 4.1 lb LOSS in FAT = a NET of +2.0 lbs!
I just came off a 3 week period where I got similar results with M1T, but not coupled with HOT-ROX. In my case I ate 500 under my maint. cals, losing 2% BF, yet saw a body weight increase of about 4 pounds!