Hostel

Off Topic
81

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
You are wrong. There is NOTHING in this movie that should make one think torture is cool or in any way glorifies torture. It’s a horror flick, and torture is the means to an end in this particular movie.
I thought the way some of the tortures were “executed” [no pun intended] were cool, but it was within the context of this film, nothing more.
[/quote]
im doubting this one. why? because more people have told me otherwise, i’ve compared this movie to Natural Born Killers (which makes serial murder look cool) and nobody’s called me on it, and i know what horror movies are like.

other than that, i realize that im at a disadvantage in this discussion having not seen it.

so what? anybody who wants to listen to me already has, and i’ve seen pretty much all i can.

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[quote]wufwugy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
Professor X wrote:

How did we go from torture in a movie to child molestation?

analogy.

actually, quite a precise analogy attempting to express that movies glorifying or encouraging or deriving entertainment from torture are trivialized.

But, as was pointed out to you, there are many acts that people go to jail for that are not just trivialized in movies, they are GLORIFIED. How many people are leaving the movie saying, “torturing someone looks really really cool, let’s go try it!”, as opposed to the ones who would say the same about theft after watching The Italian Job or Ocean’s Eleven? You simply choose to be pissed off about one and not so pissed about another.

Meanwhile, if you continue to push issues as if you want censorship, eventually someone will remove what you are not so pissed off with as well. So why does it bother you so much if you can simply choose to not go see it? Someone forced you to watch this movie?

okay, the theft issue is a different topic. i am not denying anything you say concerning it, but i am saying that i personally dont consider it as big of a deal as stuff like torture and i am discussing torture stuff. if i want to discuss theft stuff then i will at a different time.

even though the exact same principles apply to Oceans as they do Hostel i consider the Hostel issue to be more important. why? because i’d rather have everything i own stolen than be tortured.

RE: censorship. i never once mentioned censorship. i’d rather see the acceptance of torture as entertainment become an issue that people understand to be wrong, and then it wouldn’t need censorship.

kinda like Hostel: The Child Molestation Edition. this movie wouldn’t need censorship because it wouldn’t exist because the vast majority of us know that child molestation is no way to be entertained.[/quote]

What? The basic concept is, it is a horror movie. Did you raise hell when Nightmare on Elmstreet came out? Are you saying that you would rather a guy using knives for fingers doesn’t slice you up after playing with your head a little? What about The Texas Chainsaw Massacre? You would rather someone not take a chainsaw and remove random limbs from your body? What about Aliens? That was a comfy movie, huh? Shit, what horror movie has EVER not contained some element of torcher in it? If you didn’t raise the same hell for them, you are making very little sense now.

You are saying that people don’t know torcher is wrong? What are you smoking…and did you bring enough for everybody?

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Natural born killers wasn’t intended to make serial killers look cool. It was intended to show a fictional media outlets depiction of 2 serial killers and it was also the story of 2 people who were madly in love who happened to be serial killers.

Your arguements are making less and less sense. I’m starting to think you’re just standing by this one because you don’t want to admit you’re wrong.

84

[quote]Professor X wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
Professor X wrote:

How did we go from torture in a movie to child molestation?

analogy.

actually, quite a precise analogy attempting to express that movies glorifying or encouraging or deriving entertainment from torture are trivialized.

But, as was pointed out to you, there are many acts that people go to jail for that are not just trivialized in movies, they are GLORIFIED. How many people are leaving the movie saying, “torturing someone looks really really cool, let’s go try it!”, as opposed to the ones who would say the same about theft after watching The Italian Job or Ocean’s Eleven? You simply choose to be pissed off about one and not so pissed about another.

Meanwhile, if you continue to push issues as if you want censorship, eventually someone will remove what you are not so pissed off with as well. So why does it bother you so much if you can simply choose to not go see it? Someone forced you to watch this movie?

okay, the theft issue is a different topic. i am not denying anything you say concerning it, but i am saying that i personally dont consider it as big of a deal as stuff like torture and i am discussing torture stuff. if i want to discuss theft stuff then i will at a different time.

even though the exact same principles apply to Oceans as they do Hostel i consider the Hostel issue to be more important. why? because i’d rather have everything i own stolen than be tortured.

RE: censorship. i never once mentioned censorship. i’d rather see the acceptance of torture as entertainment become an issue that people understand to be wrong, and then it wouldn’t need censorship.

kinda like Hostel: The Child Molestation Edition. this movie wouldn’t need censorship because it wouldn’t exist because the vast majority of us know that child molestation is no way to be entertained.

What? The basic concept is, it is a horror movie. Did you raise hell when Nightmare on Elmstreet came out? Are you saying that you would rather a guy using knives for fingers doesn’t slice you up after playing with your head a little? What about The Texas Chainsaw Massacre? You would rather someone not take a chainsaw and remove random limbs from your body? What about Aliens? That was a comfy movie, huh? Shit, what horror movie has EVER not contained some element of torcher in it? If you didn’t raise the same hell for them, you are making very little sense now.

You are saying that people don’t know torcher is wrong? What are you smoking…and did you bring enough for everybody?[/quote]

all right, im done.

as much as i appreciate strawmen, apples and oranges, and other logical fallacies im not going to entertain them.

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[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I’m starting to think you’re just standing by this one because you don’t want to admit you’re wrong.[/quote]

apparently you know nothing about me. i dont expect you to, but if you viewed my internet posting history you’d be shown otherwise. not suggesting you do.

what you say Nat Killers was intended for and what it is aren’t the same. how is it that people watch this movie and think that it doens’t make serial murder look cool? you’re gonna hafta figure that one by yourself.

other than that, im out. logical fallacies are fucking irritating.

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[quote]wufwugy wrote:

apparently you know nothing about me. i dont expect you to, but if you viewed my internet posting history you’d be shown otherwise. not suggesting you do.

what you say Nat Killers was intended for and what it is aren’t the same. how is it that people watch this movie and think that it doens’t make serial murder look cool? you’re gonna hafta figure that one by yourself.

other than that, im out. logical fallacies are fucking irritating.[/quote]

They are irritating, aren’t they?
If YOU took that from NBK, thats on you. That movie was basiclly about how love conquers all and the vessel used to get to that point was two serial killers named Micky and Mallory.
I don’t understand how you don’t understand what’s goin on with these films. They are just movies. A violent film is supposed to be violent, a funny one funny and a sad one sad etc,etc…
I didn’t watch Ace Ventura and decide to go into pet detection.

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[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I didn’t watch Ace Ventura and decide to go into pet detection.[/quote]

LOL. 'Nuff said.

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[quote]wufwugy wrote:

all right, im done.

as much as i appreciate strawmen, apples and oranges, and other logical fallacies im not going to entertain them.[/quote]

I didn’t present a logical fallacy. I showed you that ALL horror movies have some aspect of torcher in them. You seem to ONLY be pissed at this one because it focuses on torcher as its medium. Who gives a shit? Unless you also take offense to all examples of glorified torcher in all horror movies, you have no point. You just thought you did.

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yeah that’s a great way to determine the merits of something. comparing apples and oranges, and using anecdote as proof.

sounds like awesome.

yeah im gonna write an in depth book explaining logical fallacies, and i’ll make it rich because a bunch of people are gonna buy it and criticize my book by using the very same logical fallacies that i stated they use. it’ll be fun.

90

[quote]wufwugy wrote:
yeah that’s a great way to determine the merits of something. comparing apples and oranges, and using anecdote as proof.

sounds like awesome.

yeah im gonna write an in depth book explaining logical fallacies, and i’ll make it rich because a bunch of people are gonna buy it and criticize my book by using the very same logical fallacies that i stated they use. it’ll be fun.[/quote]

Dude, what is apples and oranges about comparing one horror movie to another? Is Hostel not a horror movie? Aren’t Nightmare on Elm Street, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and many others also not horror movies? Then what are you talking about? It is a fucking horror movie. Either be pissed at the torcher scenes in all, or quit complaining.

91

[quote]Professor X wrote:
wufwugy wrote:

all right, im done.

as much as i appreciate strawmen, apples and oranges, and other logical fallacies im not going to entertain them.

I didn’t present a logical fallacy. I showed you that ALL horror movies have some aspect of torcher in them. You seem to ONLY be pissed at this one because it focuses on torcher as its medium. Who gives a shit? Unless you also take offense to all examples of glorified torcher in all horror movies, you have no point. You just thought you did.[/quote]

  1. you assume that i care about other horror movies.

  2. you assume that other horror movies are relevant for this discussion.

  3. you assume that Hostel is horror (it kinda is, but it is in the beginning of a new genre).

  4. you assume that the torture in these newer gore films is the same as the murders of those older horror films.

  5. you assume that im only pissed about this one.

  6. you assume that my feelings affect the merits making my point.

logical fallacies anybody? and all just brainstorming about one small post.

P.S. all right, now im really done.

heh

92

[quote]Professor X wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
yeah that’s a great way to determine the merits of something. comparing apples and oranges, and using anecdote as proof.

sounds like awesome.

yeah im gonna write an in depth book explaining logical fallacies, and i’ll make it rich because a bunch of people are gonna buy it and criticize my book by using the very same logical fallacies that i stated they use. it’ll be fun.

Dude, what is apples and oranges about comparing one horror movie to another? Is Hostel not a horror movie? Aren’t Nightmare on Elm Street, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and many others also not horror movies? Then what are you talking about? It is a fucking horror movie. Either be pissed at the torcher scenes in all, or quit complaining.[/quote]

actually, i forgot to quote the Ace Ventura remark.

93

wufgy, you’re wrong, the movie doesn’t glorify torture or make it look ‘cool’ in anyway. Anyone who told you that is a fucking moron who didn’t get the point of the film at all. The actual torture scenes are brief and brutal and have a pretty horrifying effect on the protagonist of the story. The things that are done to him and that he sees essentially drive him over the edge and turn him into one of the monsters that he was so terrified of when he was in the Hostel. This would have been a lot more clear if the original ending had been used but what Eli Roth wanted to do with the ending was shot down in pre-production, it was never even filmed.

Natural Born Killers was not about glorifying serial killers, again, you and most people who claim to like that movie totally missed the mark. That’s partly Oliver Stone’s fault, he has a penchant for missing the point himself and so it’s no suprise his movies do the same. NBK was a satire, critical of how the media makes murderers into celebs and how our consumer culture eats that shit up, feeding the machine as it were.

Most good horror can be enjoyed on multiple levels, it scares/shocks you but if you want to look deeper it often has some redeeming social message or makes some commentary on the human condition that is often more frightening than what’s on screen.

Hostel was okay, not a great movie but it did largely accomplish the things it set out to. It’s entertaining, it’s got a nice mix of humor/sex/violence and when it’s over, most people walk away with something they didn’t have going in. I won’t recommend this movie to most people though, it’s more than what I think the average person wants to be exposed to, just like I don’t normally recommend “the cook, the thief, his wife and her lover” to people. It’s disturbing in ways that unless you’re someone who actively seeks that out… you don’t want to be disturbed in.

Eli Roth had a cameo in the film as did Takasi Miike, I think someone else here already mentioned that.

This film btw, was conceptualized by Tarantino and Roth together, they found a web site advertising a place similar to the Hostel in the movie, they assumed it was a joke site but it got the wheels spinning and though Eli Roth wrote the movie he had some input from Tarantino during that process.

If you want to see what Tarantino will do with the genre you’ll want to keep an eye out for the collaberation he’s doing with Robert Rodriguez called ‘Grindhouse.’ It’s 2 hour movie that will consist of 2, 1 hour long complete stories, one by each of the two directors with a montage of adverts in between them, the same way the classic grindhouse films were shown in theatres. Rumor has it that there’s an ad for the Hostel in between.

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[quote]wufwugy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
wufwugy wrote:

all right, im done.

as much as i appreciate strawmen, apples and oranges, and other logical fallacies im not going to entertain them.

I didn’t present a logical fallacy. I showed you that ALL horror movies have some aspect of torcher in them. You seem to ONLY be pissed at this one because it focuses on torcher as its medium. Who gives a shit? Unless you also take offense to all examples of glorified torcher in all horror movies, you have no point. You just thought you did.

  1. you assume that i care about other horror movies.

  2. you assume that other horror movies are relevant for this discussion.

  3. you assume that Hostel is horror (it kinda is, but it is in the beginning of a new genre).

  4. you assume that the torture in these newer gore films is the same as the murders of those older horror films.

  5. you assume that im only pissed about this one.

  6. you assume that my feelings affect the merits making my point.

logical fallacies anybody? and all just brainstorming about one small post.

P.S. all right, now im really done.

heh[/quote]

Wow. It truly isn’t that hard to admit you are wrong. Just take a deep breath and say the words. Trust me, you’ll feel better.

95

Just want to chime in my two cents…

Not to burst your guys’ bubble, but I adamantly don’t do scary movies, because

  1. (I know nobody cares, but) These kinds of movies give already homocidal/psychotic psych patients ideas- and for anybody who doesn’t work in EMS/Psych/ER/Police- please do a Police/EMS ride-along/volunteer at your large city ER/psych crisis intake center…there are TONS more psychotic people walking around in society just on the edge of decompensation than the average person realizes (everywhere- even standing right next to you)…this will open your eyes enough to say that you’d want to outlaw scary/torture/murder movies.

  2. These movies scare the shit out of me…

Mostly, they scare the shit out of me. I mean, REALLY scare the shit out of me.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The problem is there are sick fucks that take inspiration from this.

It is debateable whether this actually contributes to violence but there is a pile of evidence that says it does.

The problems of a free society.[/quote]

96

[quote]chinadoll wrote:

  1. (I know nobody cares, but) These kinds of movies give already homocidal/psychotic psych patients ideas- and for anybody who doesn’t work in EMS/Psych/ER/Police- please do a Police/EMS ride-along/volunteer at your large city ER/psych crisis intake center…there are TONS more psychotic people walking around in society just on the edge of decompensation than the average person realizes (everywhere- even standing right next to you)…this will open your eyes enough to say that you’d want to outlaw scary/torture/murder movies.

[/quote]

The majority of the country is on antidepressants, anxiolytics, lithium, and other antipsychotics. I am honestly more inclined to believe that many of these cases are overmedicated in the place of getting to the root of the problem.

I could truly make the claim that possibly 30-40% of the patients I see are on some type of medication listed above…and that is in the military where they are “supposed” to be above the norm in health and function. I am sure outside it is even more prevalent.

I think that speaks much more on what type of society we are creating. We live in a quick fix country where symptoms are usually treated in place of a cure.

None of that, however, makes me want to outlaw movies just because there are many people who fit that description walking around. There are tons of fat people as well. Do we really want to OUTLAW fast food? That isn’t a cure to the problem, it would also be an attempt to simply treat a symptom of it.

97

True. We are creating that society. And I would SO LOVE to outlaw fast food! Hey it would make our jobs 1 million times easier!

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think that speaks much more on what type of society we are creating. We live in a quick fix country where symptoms are usually treated in place of a cure.

None of that, however, makes me want to outlaw movies just because there are many people who fit that description walking around. There are tons of fat people as well. Do we really want to OUTLAW fast food? That isn’t a cure to the problem, it would also be an attempt to simply treat a symptom of it.[/quote]

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P.S. HORROR MOVIES SCARE THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF ME!!! (I hope I’ve made myself clear about that.)

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[quote]chinadoll wrote:
P.S. HORROR MOVIES SCARE THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF ME!!! (I hope I’ve made myself clear about that.)[/quote]

I’ll hold your hand China! :wink:

100

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
chinadoll wrote:
P.S. HORROR MOVIES SCARE THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF ME!!! (I hope I’ve made myself clear about that.)

I’ll hold your hand China! ;)[/quote]

PGA, your hand will be crushed and covered in perspiration by the time the movie is over. And you’d have to drive with the lights inside the car on, during the drive home!!!