Chronic low aromitizer here. Been off AI or anything that lowers E since November 2017.
5’11’’
191lbs
9-10% BF
Waist 31-32
Current protocol:
100/100 tues / sat Sub Q
375 iu HCG sub Q the day before my T shot
Last Tuesday I felt like a rock star. Great workouts, erections, libido everything was clicking. By Friday I felt off. Weaker erection, Lower libido, loss of girth and sensitivity, flat to no pumps.
I’m pretty certain my E is low. I see my doc Friday and will draw all labs then. I stopped by my local lab and got only an E2 today so I at least have something to again show him my chronically low E is an issue.
E 35 is my spot. Anything less than 25 I’m limp with above sexual issues.
I am on cialis every other day and i did read a very small and poorly done study stating that chronic cialis use can Lower E2. Could this be an issue?
Anything else I can do to promote more aromatization in my life?
How can I be on one week off the next, on the next yet be on the same steady protocol?
Still in search of that stability. Lower more frequent dosing as often recommended here was a disaster for me so I’m not looking to go that route as I crashed my E to single digits doing this.
Hey. I sometimes though my e2 was high when it was actually low based on symptoms. Glad u got labs to confirm. I take 3mg Cialis daily but only for a couple months. And it did not crash my e2 or bring it down.
I do a total 100mg split 2x a week. My E2 at low 30s no good. I need to be in low 20s.
I also feel the best the day if injection which I attribute to when my e2 is at its lowest during the week. I over respond to ai FYI.
Am curious being we are taking Cialis when we get morning erections is it because of Cialis or are we dialed in?
I’m an over responder as well and I too have mistaken low E 2 for high E2. In fact I’ve only had one issues with high E2 out of the 2.4 years of my trt journey.
I rarely get morning wood even when feeling best. When I do i usually have to pee as well.
What is your SHBG? What do your labs look like on that dosing schedule? I was kinda confused how you wrote it. Are you doing 200mg a week, split into 2 shots? (SHBG is important here to determine if you need more frequent injections, or less)
Cruciferous vegetables?
What supplements are you taking? ( I was taking Sam-E on advice of a joint doc, and it tanked my e2)
Historically over the last 2.4 years my shbg has run 28-30 (16.5-55.9 Nmol/L)
Yes 200mg cyp per week. Split 100/100.
Supplements: betancourt bcaa plus
ISO-100 whey, karbolin post workout
Minimal cruciferous veggies minus a green salad daily usually at dinner with a protein.
Won’t post my last labs because they were not on most recent protocol. As often recommended here and with the approval of my doc I decreased my total dose to 150mg per week split in 3 doses with poor results with T dropping to the low 700s and E2 14, shbg 28 along with all my usual low E2 sided effects in a
7 weeks ago I went back to 200mg split 100/100 sub q along with hcg 350iu on day before T injection. No AI. I’ve been feeling good for the last month but this week started feeling the low E sexual symptoms again.
No need to be smug. I’ll post a full set of labs next week when I get them back. My question was what causes fluctuations in hormone levels when the protocol is stable. The ups and downs in the middle.
Preferred a clean post for this question i wasn’t asking for advice. When my labs come back I’ll be sure to post on a previous post.
The titles of my previous posting kind of make them irrelevant to my current postings.
If you think that are unable to do a better job with the context of other data and discussion in other posts - great.
I think that everyone has ups and downs and relative to a stellar week the next might not seem great. Perhaps your aromatization is sensitive to other aspects of your health/diet/sleep/stress etc. Maybe from doing taxes! Perhaps cortisol, dopamine or thyroid fluctuations. Speculation is not very helpful.
Yeah no one likes taxes. Nor is anyone speculating. My sexual function is very sensitive to E2 levels even on cialis. This is distressing to me. To be on one week and nonfunctional the next is a problem that I am trying to address.
Ok posting on the same post as opposed to last time.
I have very inconsistent libido on TRT.
Stats: 5 ft 11in, 191lbs, 9% body fat
supplements: iso 100 whey a few times a day, bcaa daily, karbolyn post work out
Protocol: cyp 100mg Tuesday AM 100 mg Friday afternoon sub Q. Hcg 500 iu Monday and Thursday.
History: same protocol for 2 years. Have crashed E2 on anastrazole more times than I can count and have now been off the anastro for 6 months.
My E stays low 20-30 even off. I’ve tried changing my protocol once several months ago switching to 50mg cyp SQ every 3 days and this resulted in a total T level of 709 with E2 14 and low E sides. I do not eat lots of calciferous veggies.
Saw my doc on 4/13 and had zero libido at the time. Labs that day the morning before my Friday injection.
My doc, his fellow and I talked extensively about the protocol and how to approach things to raise E. His recommendation was to bump the HCG to 1000iu three times a week.
I asked about leydig cell sensitization and he said this was Bro science non-sense as he has guys in for fertility issues on 1000iu a day year round.
So I started the extra hcg. Within 5 days my lidio came back strong but lasted maybe 5 days then I lost it. Any recommendations would be great.
Physically I feel good. Gym pumps are not 10/10 but still pretty good. Mentally I feel good minus the low libido, I’m motivated professionally and sleeping great. I rarely get morning wood even when feeling my best. I am on cialis daily. What gives with my constantly fluctuating libido.
You have to remember these labs are a snapshot in time and the target is constantly moving. Also your HCG dosage if weak as hell, nobody does 100iu in a single injection. 250iu is the lowest dosage you should attempt. Your doctors looks to be inexperienced.
Are you certain the E2 labs are the LS/ms/ms method? Looking at the ranges I’d say no.
So because he’s a professor he knows what he’s doing huh? Nothing but bad things will happen if you inject more than 500iu at a time, a huge no no in TRT. It’s all estrogen past 500iu, you sailed right past your sweet spot on that insane dosage.
Yes he wants more estrogen. That’s been my issue.
People fly-in from all over the country to see him. Been in this field a while and is chair of the entire men’s health department so he’s not an idiot and more published than most.
All knowledge is experiential, there’s no literature or much of any studies on male hormones. That’s why so many doctors get TRT wrong. I could give you the names of a couple of doctors where people from all over the world come to see, it doesn’t automatically mean that they are the best at what they do.
It sounds like your estrogen is peaking and falling fast which is why you lost the libido, you need to inject smaller doses of HCG EOD to keep it stable. Back when I was injecting 75mg once weekly, exactly 5 days after my injection I would get a erection that was only possible on that 5 day, it waned after that only to return again 5 days after my next shot.
My estrogen was peaking on the 5th day and falling the next. So once I began injecting EOD, erections were possible all the time. Think of injecting HCG EOD and compare it to someone like myself who must inject testosterone EOD to keep estrogen stable and apply that to your HCG protocol.
No HCG, I’m waiting to join Defy Medical because anytime I attempt to inject EOD I must deal with too high estrogen, so I went back to 50mg twice weekly to lower estrogen since my doctors refuse AI’s. I’m 33% BF and once I get enough free T I convert a lot of it into estrogen.
It’s the only time all original low T systems are resolved and replaced with high estrogen.
Inject HCG with your testosterone, if that fails try injecting HCG in between you T injections.
But yes this is exactly what is happening to me. The labs I’ve drawn and felt best my E was 40s but a few days later when my libido /erection disappear it’s down to 30 despite the twice weekly injections of 100mg.
Estrogen is rising briefly and failing, think of it like a sharp peak, shortly after it peaks it falls. It’s an injection frequency issue, inject more frequently and the peaks will happen more often and you will respond to it unless the dosage is too small.