[quote]Waittz wrote:
There is a reason why every champion and high level Olympic lifter use a hook grip. This is why I want to start training with it. Not for shock value or shits and giggles. [/quote]
So you know this for a fact? EVERY OLY lifter? lol. well, it sounds to me like you’ve made your decision. Good luck on killing your thumb and deadlifting when you should prolly just work on your grip. I double over hand and never have a grip problem even with heavy weights. you just have to work on it like everything else. Your goals, your lifts and your body. You asked for opinions and you got it. Take it for what it’s worth. [/quote]
Yes. And yes, which is why I asked how to get better at it, not should I do it. I didn’t ask for anyone’s opinion on if I should, I asked how to.
Do you really think which grip you use is any kind of limiting factor with where your deadlift is at now? Or that you couldn’t pretty quickly develop the grip strength to double overhand 400-500 lbs? Your deadlift concerns could probably be better focused elsewhere.
Oh yeah, this guy seems to be doing OK without a hook grip. Not a world class deadlift or anything though.
Do you really think which grip you use is any kind of limiting factor with where your deadlift is at now? Or that you couldn’t pretty quickly develop the grip strength to double overhand 400-500 lbs? Your deadlift concerns could probably be better focused elsewhere.
Oh yeah, this guy seems to be doing OK without a hook grip. Not a world class deadlift or anything though.
Jesus! I didn’t know people had such a hard time with hook gripping, wow. It’s pretty natural for me. It rips the skin off the meaty part of my hands more, but that’s the only drawback I’ve ever seen; and if you want to be a hand model I don’t think deadlifting in general is the right way to go. I initially started when I started doing snatch grip pulls, and it felt perfect so I started using it on everything.
I’m not sure why this topic should be controversial. Grip is a matter of personal preference and the hook grip is a perfectly valid and trainable means of lifting heavy things if it works for you. The advantages of the hook grip might wane in comparison to the mixed grip as someone approaches world record deadlift territory, but for just about everyone on this forum, I doubt this comes into question.
For me personally, the prime advantage of using a hook grip is that it puts me into a more natural starting position for the deadlift. My shoulders and lats are better engaged and my t-spine is able to remain in better alignment. Apart from this, I can only supinate my left hand for mixed grip owing to an old injury in my right hand that makes it impossible to hold any heavy weight with a right-hand supination. After years of deadlifting with a supinated left and pronated right hand, I indeed noticed too much wear and tear on my left biceps tendon – hence the switch to hook grip.
I don’t doubt that if I were hoping to pull world-record weight, I’d likely need to make the switch back to mixed grip. However, I quickly hit my previous mixed-grip PR after starting to use a hook grip without any difficulty or pain following the lift. Apart from that, my left elbow/biceps tendon problems are now clearing up.
To each his own, but hook grip works wonderfully for me. It’s also a great tool to have in your skillset if you ever decide to incorporate heavier snatch-grip work into your training.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
There is a reason why every champion and high level Olympic lifter use a hook grip. This is why I want to start training with it. Not for shock value or shits and giggles. [/quote]
So you know this for a fact? EVERY OLY lifter? lol. well, it sounds to me like you’ve made your decision. Good luck on killing your thumb and deadlifting when you should prolly just work on your grip. I double over hand and never have a grip problem even with heavy weights. you just have to work on it like everything else. Your goals, your lifts and your body. You asked for opinions and you got it. Take it for what it’s worth. [/quote]
It actually is a well known fact that every Oly lifter uses hook grip. Do you double overhand all your deadlifts or do you use mixed grip for heavy weights? I would be baffled if you used double overhand for a deadlift max.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
There is a reason why every champion and high level Olympic lifter use a hook grip. This is why I want to start training with it. Not for shock value or shits and giggles. [/quote]
So you know this for a fact? EVERY OLY lifter? lol. well, it sounds to me like you’ve made your decision. Good luck on killing your thumb and deadlifting when you should prolly just work on your grip. I double over hand and never have a grip problem even with heavy weights. you just have to work on it like everything else. Your goals, your lifts and your body. You asked for opinions and you got it. Take it for what it’s worth. [/quote]
It actually is a well known fact that every Oly lifter uses hook grip. Do you double overhand all your deadlifts or do you use mixed grip for heavy weights? I would be baffled if you used double overhand for a deadlift max.[/quote]
I admittedly know dick about oly lifters / lifting and that sounded like one of those ‘shotgun’ statements people embellish on to make a point. That is irrelevant at this point. Thanks for the info. I tried the hook grip and didn’t like it. In my mind it was only masking the fact that I had a weak ass grip. I wasn’t willing to deaden my thumb for the sake of hanging on to a bar. I chose the other route and worked on my grip which has had benefits beyond simply lifting a bar off the ground. To each is own in pursuit of their short / long term goals right?
YES I double over hand everything for ‘work sets’ I actually mix grip for the warm up stuff to sort of ‘save’ the grip and leave the DO for the good stuff. If I can get it off the floor I can hold on to it for the duration of the lift. YES later in the session the bar wants to roll on me but I man up and deal with it. I generally make it happen when it’s go time but yeah, sometimes my grip shits the bed too. Not enough of a frequency to worry about it tho. I then do rep work with either my SPUD straps or mixed grip.
So you might be wondering what I do for grip work. This isn’t the complete list but I have some COC gripper that I use for fun but honestly most of my grip stuff just comes from everyday life. I work at a power plant so we operate big ass valves and machinery. I use my hands a ton everyday during my 12hr shifts. I also do sandbag training for accessory work often in place of barbell work. Picking up a sand bag by pinch gripping it is fairly tough and has good carryover when gripping a bar. I also heat my home with wood so I saw / chop / stack wood and stuff. I guess I got the lumberjack hand strength going on to some degree.
To clarify what ‘heavy’ is, for me thats mid 5’s and on good days pushin 6 at 225 and I’m an old fuck at 40. I only say this so as to not sound like some teenager who’s been lifting for 3 weeks and just broke 225 off the floor and has the grip of a girl scout.
I once read Zane Greetings Q&A answer to some kid asking about grip and dropping deadlifts. His answer was brilliant. He told the guy that when he could crush an UNOPENED beer can, he would quit worrying about dropping deadlifts. Now, can one crush a beer can? IDK but the point was to train the grip and he’d quit worrying about that stuff. In the end, use whatever grip you need to do to get the shit done.
Edit: Ok so I’ve had a moment to think on the OLY lifter using this grip for their lifts. So why is that? Is it because they grip the bar as wide as possible to do snatches and stuff to effectively shorten bar path and all that? I would imagine that holding the bar out that far effectively disable the ring and pinky finger from even holding the bar so the best 3 finger grip is the hook grip? Is the hook grip wide like that more comfortable than straight down in a PL deadlift? And at what point in their lifts does the hook grip turn into a regular grip? I imagine when the bar spins in the hand the hook goes away. IDK, just trying to wrap my head around this grip thing, pardon the pun.
DAMN, that’s quite a grip. I’ve never really tried maxing my double overhand on a standard bar, although the other day I did get a 225 single hand deadlift (no knurling where I gripped either :P). I got 6 something on the trap bar the one time I tried it, and that was without straps. You can’t really mix grip a trap bar I suppose lol. I’m probably capable of holding on to more than I can even pull! I’ve never gotten more than 525 on a conventional deadlift.
Even still I can’t imagine going for a max attempt with double overhand. What CoC do you have? Can you close a 3? I can do a 2 pretty easily, but I can barely even move the 3.
I have from a 3 all the way down to the Sport.lol. My 9 yo son uses the sport, guid and .5 for his hand training for baseball.
Yeah I can close the 3 once with my right hand & some body english Left lags about .5 gripper back. I do most of my work with the 1.5/2/2.5
I’m telling ya. get an old duffle bag and fill it with sand bags from a surplus store or whatever. Do bent over rows / Kroc rows etc with it. Sub them for DB’s here and there. Overhead press about 80# sand bag… it feels like pressing a fat midget overhead, er, I mean little person. sorry little dudes…
Also load a bar up on pins with a good bit of weight, maybe while you do shrugs, just double over hand the bar and hold it as long as you can. Sooner or later your grip will comply ha.
Give the DO a shot, you’ll probably be pleasantly surprised. get that doubt stuff out of your head. See it, then do it. It’s like BUDS/ SEAL school. they say it’s 90% mental. I can’t confirm that but I do know the mind makes or breaks folks.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Yeah I can close the 3
[/quote]
Oh shiiiiit! I think I need to pick up a 2.5, because there’s a world of distance between the 2 and the 3.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
I’m telling ya. get an old duffle bag and fill it with sand bags from a surplus store or whatever. Do bent over rows / Kroc rows etc with it. Sub them for DB’s here and there. Overhead press about 80# sand bag… it feels like pressing a fat midget overhead, er, I mean little person. sorry little dudes…
Also load a bar up on pins with a good bit of weight, maybe while you do shrugs, just double over hand the bar and hold it as long as you can. Sooner or later your grip will comply ha.
Give the DO a shot, you’ll probably be pleasantly surprised. get that doubt stuff out of your head. See it, then do it. It’s like BUDS/ SEAL school. they say it’s 90% mental. I can’t confirm that but I do know the mind makes or breaks folks. [/quote]
I’ll have to try some of that. I toy with the idea of becoming a “grip nerd” sometimes, even though I don’t have especially large hands.
If only IronDwarf were still around I could just lift him by the shirt.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
There is a reason why every champion and high level Olympic lifter use a hook grip. This is why I want to start training with it. Not for shock value or shits and giggles. [/quote]
So you know this for a fact? EVERY OLY lifter? lol. well, it sounds to me like you’ve made your decision. Good luck on killing your thumb and deadlifting when you should prolly just work on your grip. I double over hand and never have a grip problem even with heavy weights. you just have to work on it like everything else. Your goals, your lifts and your body. You asked for opinions and you got it. Take it for what it’s worth. [/quote]
It actually is a well known fact that every Oly lifter uses hook grip. Do you double overhand all your deadlifts or do you use mixed grip for heavy weights? I would be baffled if you used double overhand for a deadlift max.[/quote]
I admittedly know dick about oly lifters / lifting and that sounded like one of those ‘shotgun’ statements people embellish on to make a point. That is irrelevant at this point. Thanks for the info. I tried the hook grip and didn’t like it. In my mind it was only masking the fact that I had a weak ass grip. I wasn’t willing to deaden my thumb for the sake of hanging on to a bar. I chose the other route and worked on my grip which has had benefits beyond simply lifting a bar off the ground. To each is own in pursuit of their short / long term goals right?
YES I double over hand everything for ‘work sets’ I actually mix grip for the warm up stuff to sort of ‘save’ the grip and leave the DO for the good stuff. If I can get it off the floor I can hold on to it for the duration of the lift. YES later in the session the bar wants to roll on me but I man up and deal with it. I generally make it happen when it’s go time but yeah, sometimes my grip shits the bed too. Not enough of a frequency to worry about it tho. I then do rep work with either my SPUD straps or mixed grip.
So you might be wondering what I do for grip work. This isn’t the complete list but I have some COC gripper that I use for fun but honestly most of my grip stuff just comes from everyday life. I work at a power plant so we operate big ass valves and machinery. I use my hands a ton everyday during my 12hr shifts. I also do sandbag training for accessory work often in place of barbell work. Picking up a sand bag by pinch gripping it is fairly tough and has good carryover when gripping a bar. I also heat my home with wood so I saw / chop / stack wood and stuff. I guess I got the lumberjack hand strength going on to some degree.
To clarify what ‘heavy’ is, for me thats mid 5’s and on good days pushin 6 at 225 and I’m an old fuck at 40. I only say this so as to not sound like some teenager who’s been lifting for 3 weeks and just broke 225 off the floor and has the grip of a girl scout.
I once read Zane Greetings Q&A answer to some kid asking about grip and dropping deadlifts. His answer was brilliant. He told the guy that when he could crush an UNOPENED beer can, he would quit worrying about dropping deadlifts. Now, can one crush a beer can? IDK but the point was to train the grip and he’d quit worrying about that stuff. In the end, use whatever grip you need to do to get the shit done.
Edit: Ok so I’ve had a moment to think on the OLY lifter using this grip for their lifts. So why is that? Is it because they grip the bar as wide as possible to do snatches and stuff to effectively shorten bar path and all that? I would imagine that holding the bar out that far effectively disable the ring and pinky finger from even holding the bar so the best 3 finger grip is the hook grip? Is the hook grip wide like that more comfortable than straight down in a PL deadlift? And at what point in their lifts does the hook grip turn into a regular grip? I imagine when the bar spins in the hand the hook goes away. IDK, just trying to wrap my head around this grip thing, pardon the pun. [/quote]
Its so the bar doesnt go flying out of their hands and kill spectators.
Also again, i dont get the negative stuff about the hook grip. I never asked which is the best grip. I said I want to get better at the hook grip and how do i. Some of the feedback is the equivalent of me asking how to bring up my front squat, and someone telling me that i shouldnt bother and instead back squat. General rule of thumb(no pun intended) is that a hook grip is a great tool for DL training up until about 80-90%+ of 1RM, from there use mix.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
I said I want to get better at the hook grip and how do i. [/quote]
Easy. You first decide you want to do it. 2, you hook grip the bar and pull. It will hurt like fuck. Your job is to ‘man up’ and deal with the pain you have chosen to endure. Over time your finger will not hurt as much or will eventually not hurt at all. This is highly individual so your mileage will vary. There’s no magic hook grip training. You simply just have to do it and put up with the side effects.
Since ALL OLy lifter hook grip, why don’t you ask this over in the OLY section or on an OLY forum? And as for the hook grip negativity, it feels like someone hammering my fucking fingers so I don’t like it. You yourself said it hurts so what’s the problem understanding? Good luck working out your hook grip.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Edit: Ok so I’ve had a moment to think on the OLY lifter using this grip for their lifts. So why is that? Is it because they grip the bar as wide as possible to do snatches and stuff to effectively shorten bar path and all that? I would imagine that holding the bar out that far effectively disable the ring and pinky finger from even holding the bar so the best 3 finger grip is the hook grip? Is the hook grip wide like that more comfortable than straight down in a PL deadlift? And at what point in their lifts does the hook grip turn into a regular grip? I imagine when the bar spins in the hand the hook goes away. IDK, just trying to wrap my head around this grip thing, pardon the pun. [/quote]
It’s also used in clean where the grip is about shoulder width or a tad wider, so hand width isn’t really an issue.
Aside from grip security, Oly lifters use a hook grip so they can get under the bar faster in cleans and snatches. The use of a hook grip helps reduce arm involvement, allowing them to remain loose and hence helps the lifter to get under the bar faster.
Personally I use the hook grip because it feels more balanced to me, and the pain doesn’t actually factor into it. At low weights there’s no pain anyway, and at high weights I’m focussed more on the strain on my legs and back than anything else.
My hands are so small that I can’t even reach around far enough to get a hook grip.
Like front squats, I’d assume that you stop feeling it. I remember first front squat racking 135 and it hurt. Now 300 doesn’t phase me.
Would having tape of the hands be legal in a competition? My understanding is that you can’t have anything above the wrist.
I once saw a guy pick up an “inch” dumbell after growing his thumbnail about 3 inches long so he could use it like a strap.
Pinch gripping works great, and hurts a lot. I would fold a towel and then place it under the bar, and then pinch grip the two ends on top (with about 100 pounds).
I have been told that the hook grip is good for Olympic lifting for a couple of reasons. One is that any neurological sensation of the bar opening the hand will tend to slow down your pulls at the legs reflexively so you don’t lose it. The other is that without the hook grip, the forearm flexes harder and causes tightness in the arms and shoulders which has the same kind of effect as trying to run “not relaxed” or hit a baseball with all your strength. Again it reduces peak power.
I once saw a guy pick up an “inch” dumbell after growing his thumbnail about 3 inches long so he could use it like a strap.
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As usual Mert, hats off to ya bro. I knew there was more to the hook grip than just having weak grip to hold onto a bar. what you wrote makes a lot of sense. I can also see how that could help someone pull better if they learn to use the grip proficiently.
Would having tape of the hands be legal in a competition? My understanding is that you can’t have anything above the wrist.
[/quote]
I don’t know about other feds but IPF you can have two revolutions of tape around your thumbs.
I use it off an on. It’s a distraction but when I’m doing high reps, it keeps my inner thumb from getting ripped up.
That was a very interesting bit of information on the neurological aspect of hook grip. Maybe that’s why I like it better and it feels more ‘right’ to me.
I taped my thumbs and started using it on all pulling exercises(except farmers walks) and noticed a big difference from session to session. Used it for cleans the other day and man…it just felt right. At this point just seems like my hands callousing, it will get used to it. Thanks for the info in here everyone.
I like it a lot for Oly lifts and their variations because I can’t use enough weight on them like a I can a deadlift for that kind of grip to give out and my arms and shoulders feel looser.
