Honest Question For Non-Christians

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
283

[quote]Buttered_Corn wrote:
Hey Solomon,

I am still waiting on your PM you stated you were sending me regarding the statements I made. I would like to ask you and a few Christians on here a few questions and see if we could have some good dialogue.

(if this has been asked I apologize)

#1
What is your view of the Christian scriptures? Do you hold the bible as the inerrant or infallible Word of God? (That the bible is without error or contradiction.)[/quote]

Absolutely! [quote]

#2
The name Jesus. This name is not the Hebrew name he was called. Jesus, being a form of or derived from a pagan deity?s name, was used instead of his actual name by authorities and translators hundred of years later.
Knowing that Jesus is not the name, his mother called him or the people in the first few centuries how do you reconcile the verses below. (Just to cite 2)

Acts 4:12 -
“And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”

Php 2:10 -
Therefore, that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

In this verse in Philippians, especially the latter part of the verse where it speaks to those who are dead and buried. What about the believer or ones who died during his time on earth? Wouldn’t they know his given name instead of Jesus? We cannot just flippantly disregard His name here thinking that, God will work it all out, or I just have to believe and everything will be okay. Paul mandates that believers study to show yourself approved.[/quote]

What are you talking about? “Immanuel” in Hebrew means “God with us,” while the Greek where we get “Jesus,” means salvation. We should not be bothered by this, because just as in the Hebrew Scriptures, God has many names:

Elohim; Jehovah; El-shaddai; El-roi; etc. etc. etc.

The names of God, tell something of His character. Since Jesus is God, then we shouldn’t be surprised that He might be called by more than one name also.[quote]

#3
God’s Law - The Torah (First 5 books of the Old Testament)

Are Christians, required or expected to obey the Law? (Torah)[/quote]

Clearly, the written Law (Torah) was for the Jewish nation under a theocracy. While God’s eternal nature and basic demands of salvation through faith (see Genesis 15 and how Abraham was ‘saved’) never changes – God’s administration of His ways do change. We are in the Age of Grace – not in the Age of Torah (Law). Therefore, while it is sin to steal, lie, sleep with your negibors wife, etc. and these will always be sin, we do not keep the Law of Moses as a rule of life, because the Law of Moses was designed to show us that we are so sinful that we cannot keep it! That is why Jesus had to come and die for our sins – so God can save us.[quote]

The Torah simply means the teachings and instructions by God.

#4 Salvation

Can you show or tell me your faith without using the Apostle Paul? (For this question, you are not allowed to use any of Paul’s letters to show your salvation)[/quote]

Well, this is quite arbitrary – it is like tying a surgeon’s hands together and say “you can operate,” but you cannot use your hands.

Anyway, I have not the time to quote all of the verses, but just look in the Gospel of John. This will tell you the same things that Paul teaches – Jesus is the only way, ye must be born again, etc. etc. etc.

The whole Bible teaches this – Psalm 2, for example tells us to “pay homage” or “kiss” the Son…; Isaiah 53 tells us about Jesus coming to die for sin, etc.

All for now.

Thanks.
[/quote]

284

Steve said :Where do you think that your awareness [conscience] of the fact that the way of giving to others is better than not, came from? Yourself?

Theres these people called Parents and Grandparents. They also don’t have to be religious to teach their younguns to be share and show compassion, etc.
And again, these parents and grandparents live in a society and have to display various codes of conduct in their everyday lives - and of course bring these codes back into the family homes.The reason these adults use these codes in their working lives? - they get ahead. Thses attitudes are imparted onto kiddies consciously - as in teaching a kid to share, and unconsciously - as in donating to a relief fund and the kid is watching.
I don’t need a sky daddy to tell me these things. Do you?

285

[quote]mazilla wrote:
short and sweet.

christianity is a religion for the weak. the only religion that allows you to dissolve your “sins” at will. the real shitballs of our society tend to be christians. it’s easy to believe in something that offers no real penalty for “sin”. a simple apology to yourself and your released? what a bunch of self-serving garbage. if “jesus” were here today, you so called “christians” would be the first into hell. your hypocracy is mind blowing.now please go kill yourself, so i don’t have to.[/quote]

Well, you either are forgiven of your sin, or you will have to pay it for yourself.

Your observation, although crudely put, is spoken to in Romans. "What shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid [MAY IT NEVER BE], how shall we, who are dead to sin…etc.

Being saved is not a license to sin. Since the Spirit of God comes and dwells in the believer, the person doesn’t want to sin any longer. When we do sin, we really feel terrible and take steps to be forgiven by God, for sure, but also to make it right with the person whom we sinned against.

286

[quote]ShaunW wrote:
Steve said :Where do you think that your awareness [conscience] of the fact that the way of giving to others is better than not, came from? Yourself?

Theres these people called Parents and Grandparents. They also don’t have to be religious to teach their younguns to be share and show compassion, etc.
And again, these parents and grandparents live in a society and have to display various codes of conduct in their everyday lives - and of course bring these codes back into the family homes.The reason these adults use these codes in their working lives? - they get ahead. Thses attitudes are imparted onto kiddies consciously - as in teaching a kid to share, and unconsciously - as in donating to a relief fund and the kid is watching.
I don’t need a sky daddy to tell me these things. Do you?

[/quote]

Well, let’s talk about this. Where did the grandparents get this from? Why does acting in this manner get you ahead? The reason is that people respond well to this. Why? Where did this come from?

I submit that God has given it to us through the conscience that he has given to all of us. “Survival of the fittest” theory doesn’t explain this – actually it should predict that the individual would be paramount and not society.

Think about this: if you extend your argument that it comes from “parents and grandparents,” then when we come to the first human being who, according to your explanation would have had to teach this to his offspring, where did he get this from?

Think about it…

287

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
OK – interesting. Then can I make the following observations:

(1) You believe that “your way” is better than this “other way.” [/quote]
Correct. Being nice is better than being an asshole, for many reasons.

True. And it is easier than you might imagine. I am pretty good at getting folks to “come out of their shell.” You just gotta lead by example.

Correct. Paying attention to honesty and kindness rewards you with the fruits of friendship and love. You have one life to live, so you should make the best of it while you can. All we have is each other in this place. :slight_smile:

[quote]So…

(1) As you, I believe that God’s way is the ultimate best way.[/quote]
But steveo, I’m not following any God. I have found that many folks who rely on a dishonest view of the world make poor decisions about the rest of us here that they live with.

And I admire you for your intentions, steveo. A lot of guys here just see your message and heckle you for it, but they miss WHY you do that crazy thing that you do.

Actually I noted the effects of being a nice guy through social experimentation. I have never believed in God. As a teenager, I felt my true and selfish nature come into fruition, and I revelled in the delight of getting mine, and not caring in what effects it had on others.

[quote]Anyway, by your own admission, you would do the same thing that I am doing, only you seem to have a problem when I do it.
[/quote]
That’s just because the spirit of honesty isn’t there. No one can honestly say that there is a God, or that they know God’s way, because there isn’t one. What you DO know is what some book tells you. There’s all kinds of books, steveo.

Some of them say that the only way to be saved is to do the work of the Quran, and this idea has just as much merit as yours. Did you know that by embracing Jesus and losing sight of the Hindu principles, there’s a good chance you will come back into your next life as a cockroach? YOU MUST ACCEPT THE CONCEPT OF REBIRTH!!! :slight_smile:

See what I’m getting at, steveo? None of those books or beliefs (including the bible) are testable, observable, or real. They are things of shadow which dwell in our minds and have no real substance.

Concepts and ideas only have as much power as you decide to give to them. Without a person with a mind to make it, an idea does not exist.

This is honesty – naked of fear and illusion. It’s a good start for anybody. Start with honesty and truth and see what else the world has in store for you. That’s how I live my life, anyway. :slight_smile:

288

Steve said:
I submit that God has given it to us through the conscience that he has given to all of us. “Survival of the fittest” theory doesn’t explain this – actually it should predict that the individual would be paramount and not society.

2 words in answer to this - Herd Behaviour. What is good for the herd, is good for the individual. Except in our case (and the case of our furry ancestors) substitute Tribe or Clan for Herd.
And i must say Lothario has presented his points in a clear and unambiguous manner, many of which resonate with the various points i’ve thought as i’ve scrolled this long discussion (and well done to all for allowing this thread to become a discussion again)

289

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
OK – interesting. Then can I make the following observations:

(1) You believe that “your way” is better than this “other way.”
Correct. Being nice is better than being an asshole, for many reasons.

(2) You would try to “convert” that person from his way – because that it leads to a life of despair [your words] – to your way.
True. And it is easier than you might imagine. I am pretty good at getting folks to “come out of their shell.” You just gotta lead by example.

(3) You recognize that the way of giving to others and consideration for others is a better way then not doing those things.
Correct. Paying attention to honesty and kindness rewards you with the fruits of friendship and love. You have one life to live, so you should make the best of it while you can. All we have is each other in this place. :slight_smile:

So…

(1) As you, I believe that God’s way is the ultimate best way.
But steveo, I’m not following any God. I have found that many folks who rely on a dishonest view of the world make poor decisions about the rest of us here that they live with.

(2) Like you, when I see someone living their ‘own way’ and not God’s way [the ultimate best way] – since it will lead them to the despair of Hell – I try to lead them out of that way and into God’s way [the ultimate best way].
And I admire you for your intentions, steveo. A lot of guys here just see your message and heckle you for it, but they miss WHY you do that crazy thing that you do.

(3) Where do you think that your awareness [conscience] of the fact that the way of giving to others is better than not, came from? Yourself? God has given every man a conscience, and while that is not enough to ensure salvation, it is enough to give us some of God’s light. To be saved, we just need to keep going to the next level and acknowledge God, but humbling oursleves before Him.
Actually I noted the effects of being a nice guy through social experimentation. I have never believed in God. As a teenager, I felt my true and selfish nature come into fruition, and I revelled in the delight of getting mine, and not caring in what effects it had on others.

Anyway, by your own admission, you would do the same thing that I am doing, only you seem to have a problem when I do it.

That’s just because the spirit of honesty isn’t there. No one can honestly say that there is a God, or that they know God’s way, because there isn’t one. What you DO know is what some book tells you. There’s all kinds of books, steveo.

Some of them say that the only way to be saved is to do the work of the Quran, and this idea has just as much merit as yours. Did you know that by embracing Jesus and losing sight of the Hindu principles, there’s a good chance you will come back into your next life as a cockroach? YOU MUST ACCEPT THE CONCEPT OF REBIRTH!!! :slight_smile:

See what I’m getting at, steveo? None of those books or beliefs (including the bible) are testable, observable, or real. They are things of shadow which dwell in our minds and have no real substance.

Concepts and ideas only have as much power as you decide to give to them. Without a person with a mind to make it, an idea does not exist.

This is honesty – naked of fear and illusion. It’s a good start for anybody. Start with honesty and truth and see what else the world has in store for you. That’s how I live my life, anyway. :)[/quote]

(1) Just because YOU say that God doesn’t exist, doesn’t mean He doesn’t. That is also your belief, which of course, you are entitled to have.

(2) You are actually making the same mistake that I made as a much younger man. That is this:

“Since there are all of these ‘ways to god,’ they all cannot be correct, therefore – they are all wrong and there is no God!”

Now, I agree that if there is only one God, all these “religions” cannot be correct. However, did you ever consider that one is correct? That ‘one’ would be the Bible – not a ‘religion’ as such, but the Bible. You see, while they ALL CANNOT BE CORRECT, ONE can be!

  1. I am talking about honesty. Cannot get any more honest than the Words of God, who cannot lie…
290

[quote]ShaunW wrote:
Steve said:
I submit that God has given it to us through the conscience that he has given to all of us. “Survival of the fittest” theory doesn’t explain this – actually it should predict that the individual would be paramount and not society.

2 words in answer to this - Herd Behaviour. What is good for the herd, is good for the individual. Except in our case (and the case of our furry ancestors) substitute Tribe or Clan for Herd.
And i must say Lothario has presented his points in a clear and unambiguous manner, many of which resonate with the various points i’ve thought as i’ve scrolled this long discussion (and well done to all for allowing this thread to become a discussion again)

[/quote]

Well, I have a higher view of man. Your view is man = animals.

I don’t buy your low view of man. We are made in the image of God, not some monkey.

291

Mate - we aren’t made at all…

292

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Now, I agree that if there is only one God, all these “religions” cannot be correct. However, did you ever consider that one is correct? That ‘one’ would be the Bible – not a ‘religion’ as such, but the Bible. You see, while they ALL CANNOT BE CORRECT, ONE can be![/quote]

Or none can be. Realize that this is a choice you make, and has no reflection of truth. I choose to accept the world as it is without pretending that there is anything else to it. All I have is reality. Fantasy is correctly identified as such.

Sometimes what we imagine comes to pass, but show some wisdom here: if you make it a habit to think if something’s possible, then it will come to pass, you will make many many mistakes.

“OOO!!! It’s possible for me to win the lottery! I’m going to spend all of my extra money on lottery tickets for the rest of my life, because sooner or later, I’m gonna win!”

“OOO!!! It’s possible that there are 500 foot tall invisible bunny rabbits who walk VERY carefully amongst us! I’m never going to carry a head of lettuce in my hand, because I might get trampled!”

“OOO!!! It’s possible that there is such a thing as the afterlife! I’m gonna do everything that the Quran dudes tell me to do – even blow myself up in busy marketplaces – and then I can finally lose my virginity as a ghost to all those afterlife virgins!”

Like I have said to you before: please be careful where your beliefs take you. When you begin at a place where you accept fantasy as reality, you become vulnerable to manipulation.

293

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Well, I have a higher view of man. Your view is man = animals.

I don’t buy your low view of man. We are made in the image of God, not some monkey.

[/quote]
Steveo, I hate to break it to you, but you are an animal. You are an animal with sentience – just like a dolphin, an orangutan, or a chimpanzee.

They have self-awareness, too. We have good reason to believe that octopi have some self-awareness as well.

Sorry if this comes as a shock to you.

294

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Now, I agree that if there is only one God, all these “religions” cannot be correct. However, did you ever consider that one is correct? That ‘one’ would be the Bible – not a ‘religion’ as such, but the Bible. You see, while they ALL CANNOT BE CORRECT, ONE can be!

Or none can be. Realize that this is a choice you make, and has no reflection of truth. I choose to accept the world as it is without pretending that there is anything else to it. All I have is reality. Fantasy is correctly identified as such.

Sometimes what we imagine comes to pass, but show some wisdom here: if you make it a habit to think if something’s possible, then it will come to pass, you will make many many mistakes.

“OOO!!! It’s possible for me to win the lottery! I’m going to spend all of my extra money on lottery tickets for the rest of my life, because sooner or later, I’m gonna win!”

“OOO!!! It’s possible that there are 500 foot tall invisible bunny rabbits who walk VERY carefully amongst us! I’m never going to carry a head of lettuce in my hand, because I might get trampled!”

“OOO!!! It’s possible that there is such a thing as the afterlife! I’m gonna do everything that the Quran dudes tell me to do – even blow myself up in busy marketplaces – and then I can finally lose my virginity as a ghost to all those afterlife virgins!”

Like I have said to you before: please be careful where your beliefs take you. When you begin at a place where you accept fantasy as reality, you become vulnerable to manipulation.[/quote]

And YOU need to be careful where your beliefs take you. In this case, they have taken you to deny spiritual REALITY and to pretend that it just doesn’t exist.

A storm – the big “storm” of judgement is coming. You need to escape by fleeing to the Savior. Will you get out in time?

Many people have denied that large storms are coming and have perished in the storm.

The storm of judgment is coming – will you get out?

Keep on pretending = Eternal Hell Fire!

295

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Well, I have a higher view of man. Your view is man = animals.

I don’t buy your low view of man. We are made in the image of God, not some monkey.

Steveo, I hate to break it to you, but you are an animal. You are an animal with sentience – just like a dolphin, an orangutan, or a chimpanzee.

They have self-awareness, too. We have good reason to believe that octopi have some self-awareness as well.

Sorry if this comes as a shock to you. [/quote]

And I am so sorry to shock you. We are not animals – except of course in the gym :slight_smile: – we have been made in God’s image.

You have a very low view of humanity – and an obvious BELIEF in Darwinian Evolution.

Be careful, my friend, where your faith in this fantasy world takes you.

We are animals – now that is funny!

296

It doesnt make much sense to discuss with guys like that. He obviously, like all religious fanatics who believe in the ID hoax, doesnt even know that evolution, like all scientific theories, is not about believing, science isnt religion.

If u teach ID as a religious believe in your churches or sunday schools, fine, you people have the same right to believe in weird stuff like people who believe in ufos or auditing.

But some of you just try to force their wacky believes on people who actually live in the real world, by claiming ID is scientific. The truth is, ID has the same scientfic status as Astrology, Spiritualism or Ufologie, its pseudoscience. Thats why ID, just like prayer, has never,ever lost something in public schools.

Right know the “religious right” is clearly americas #1 enemy. Theyd like to see the us as a christian version of Iran, and if these fanatics continue to gain influence i see some very, very dark roads ahead for this country. The difference between the religious right and islamic fundamentalists who fly airplanes in towers is one of degree only.

297

WOW is this thread still going strong!

well I do not beleive the dinosaur issue was ever explained but nevermind, how about if all you christian guys are right then how can a couple of billion Muslims, Buddhist, Catholics and Jews etc etc. be wrong?

Surely you are not going to deny these people on a world wide web forum?

For your beliefs to be true then all their beliefs must be wrong, but there is more of them than there is of you, so you must be wrong sorry.

Also if there really is a god why is my 25 year old friend who has never done anyone any wrong dying of cancer? And why is religion resposible for so many Billions of deaths and murders?

I would like for all religious people to finally stand up and admit that what they beleive in is purely just a beleif, but they know deep down inside that it all just a load of BS to make them feel happy.

IMHO I beleive religion was invented as a way to control the un-intellegent, there is even an easy to read book with lots of nice little stories about how women were made from a mans rib, and that a man managed to get lots of animals on a boat without them eating each other. Its a lovely book and it teachs you right from wrong, BUT do not ever do any wrong or you will go to hell! Thats another nice way of keeping unitellegent people in check, do as you are told or you will not float up into heaven and spend your days floating on fluffy clouds, you will be thrown down into the firey gates of… yawn

298

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
WOW is this thread still going strong!

well I do not beleive the dinosaur issue was ever explained but nevermind, how about if all you christian guys are right then how can a couple of billion Muslims, Buddhist, Catholics and Jews etc etc. be wrong?

[/quote]

Hmm, I like your style but it needs fine-tuning!
Im an Atheist, but the above example is not a reason to believe or not-believe in God, as there was a time when the majority of people believed the world to be flat - yet it wasn’t. What the majority think or do is of little consequence regarding truth as, generally, the majority are dumb!

Again, a majority (or minority) is no indication of truthfullness.

This is more like it! but there are better arguments for Atheism.

[quote]
MHO I beleive religion was invented as a way to control the un-intellegent, there is even an easy to read book with lots of nice little stories about how women were made from a mans rib, and that a man managed to get lots of animals on a boat without them eating each other. Its a lovely book and it teachs you right from wrong, BUT do not ever do any wrong or you will go to hell! Thats another nice way of keeping unitellegent people in check, do as you are told or you will not float up into heaven and spend your days floating on fluffy clouds, you will be thrown down into the firey gates of… yawn[/quote]

Yep, it’s ridiculous. There are several reasons to reject the notion of God. If we start with the premise that Reason (rational thought) is our only means of knowledge, then we must demand some proof or evidence to believe that a God might exist. None has ever been forthcoming. So, right away we can say “I do not believe in God” (agnostic), but not “there is no such thing as God”.

However if we examine what God is supposed to be, we normally come across attributes such as: infinite, omnipotent, omniscient etc.

Infinite - this is not an attribute at all, it is a negative description of what God is not, ie. God is not finite.

Omnipotent - means “all powerful”, but this is obviously an impossibility in reality. EG, can God make a boulder so large he cannot lift it up?

Omniscient - means “all knowing” - this is really an argument for Determinism, as God would have to know everything that has happened in the past and all that would happen in the future, which means the future is determined and we have no real choices. Yet it is a self-evident observation that we make choices all the time - you are choosing to read this thread for example.

… all of the “attributes” God is endowed with can be similarly dispelled. So the concept “God” itself, does not make sense, and so any sentence that uses it is non-sensical, using the word “God” is meaningless, just like saying “bllrgh”.

Ergo, we can now say that there is no such thing as “God”, or that “God” does not exist.

regards
Nick

(those in doubt, or interested in Atheism must read George H. Smith’s book, Atheism: The case against God).

299

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
And I am so sorry to shock you. We are not animals – except of course in the gym :slight_smile: – we have been made in God’s image.

You have a very low view of humanity – and an obvious BELIEF in Darwinian Evolution.

Be careful, my friend, where your faith in this fantasy world takes you.

We are animals – now that is funny!
[/quote]

What is God? please define/describe him)

What evidence is there to believe in God?

300

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Be careful, my friend, where your faith in this fantasy world takes you.
[/quote]

I think several of us on this thread are thinking the same thing about you.

301

[quote]NickMunro wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
And I am so sorry to shock you. We are not animals – except of course in the gym :slight_smile: – we have been made in God’s image.

You have a very low view of humanity – and an obvious BELIEF in Darwinian Evolution.

Be careful, my friend, where your faith in this fantasy world takes you.

We are animals – now that is funny!

What is God? please define/describe him)

What evidence is there to believe in God?

[/quote]

know one can possibly explain god, becuase know one can fathom his power and what he is. our little minds couldnt possibly understand, all we have is his writings through inspriation. you know i used to be an athiest, but events in my life and knowledge i have gained i truly believe there is a god. I always over analyze everything and im very skeptical, but Ive come to realize in my heart and what i know that there is a god, but it takes experiences and really searching out what your looking for. not just taking other peoples ideas or information at there word. it takes personal experiences and mediation to realize truths.

302

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Buttered_Corn wrote:
Hey Solomon,

I am still waiting on your PM you stated you were sending me regarding the statements I made. I would like to ask you and a few Christians on here a few questions and see if we could have some good dialogue.

(if this has been asked I apologize)

#1
What is your view of the Christian scriptures? Do you hold the bible as the inerrant or infallible Word of God? (That the bible is without error or contradiction.)

Absolutely!

[/quote]

What’s going on steveo5801.

Thanks for the response. To save space I’ll break out the 4 questions I posed into individual posts to reply too. This will start and address question #1 about the Bible’s inerrancy.

Understood that these issues really come down to the filters we each have in place at our current juncture in life. For example, have you ever noticed when you purchased a car and let’s say it was a Jetta. Amazingly, you begin to notice more and more Jetta’s on the road. The reason being is that you see based on what is influencing your life at that moment. As our influences change so can our vision or outlook. We see based on our experience and current understanding on these topics. For the young Christians, you will change your thinking about certain doctrines many times as you grow in your faith. You understand now to the degree you have revelation.

Regarding the bible’s inerrancy, before we dive into deeper issues like the Nicean council and how we derived the bible, we have today, I simply wanted to post some verses and get your (Christians) take on what seems to be a contradiction or error.

(I’m using the NAS - New American Standard version)

Matt 2:23
"and came (Jesus) and lived in a city called Nazareth. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophets: “He shall be called a Nazarene.”

This is one of many New Testament (NT) verses that refer to the fulfillment of Jesus being the Jewish/Hebrew Messiah. To be the Jewish Messiah, he would have to fulfill the requirements laid out for him in the Jewish Scriptures or Old Testament (OT). If the person did not meet one of them then he would not be considered the Messiah. Christians are not raised with a Jewish concept of the Messiah. To a Christian, Jesus just is the Messiah, without ever really studying how the Messiah is to come and what is the recipe for his arrival. There are many NT scriptures that state, “This is in fulfillment of” or “he did this to fulfill what was spoken of him” verses that are not considered actual messianic scriptures in Judaism or the Jewish mindset. This verse above seems to state that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene. It sounds good on the surface, but where is the passage of scripture in the OT that this verse is referring too?

Judges 13:5
“For behold, you shall conceive and give birth to a son, and no razor shall come upon his head, for the boy shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb; and he shall begin to deliver Israel from the hands of the Philistines.”

The verse in Matthew references being part of a town or community ? a native. I grew up in Tennessee and refer to myself as a native Tennessean. The verse in Matthew makes it a Messianic point, that the Messiah, “spoken through the prophets” would be called a Nazarene. The verse in Judges refers to being a Nazirite, not a Nazarene. Nazareth was not even in existence during the time of Judges. If you read the context of the verse, you will find the story of Samson. This verse in particular is speaking about the birth of Samson. Samson was to take the Nazirite vow. It was not a town or community, but a way of life. (See Numbers 6:2-5 for the requirements of the Nazirite vow)

The only mention of the city of Nazareth can be found in the NT. The OT does not mention this city, because it did not exist during that time. Secondly, the verses clearly contradict each other. The verse in Matthew is puzzling. It states the prophets foretold this event would happen to fulfill some prophesy about the Messiah. I researched, looked, and could not find one reference to back the verse?s claim. This is just one of many such verses. The only reference is the verse in Judges and that verse is speaking of Samson and about his Nazirite vow. It is not speaking about where the Messiah would live or setup residence.