[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
Why? Maybe if you’re doing push press, but if you’re doing seated presses and maybe even seated raises, i don’t see the problem. Unless you’re talking about on a pure exhaustion note, in which case I think that would be for the lifter to judge.[/quote]
IMO, if you can get a good shoulder workout after training legs, you’re either not training legs hard enough or not training shoulders hard enough. Probably both.
Fatigue is real.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
Why? Maybe if you’re doing push press, but if you’re doing seated presses and maybe even seated raises, i don’t see the problem. Unless you’re talking about on a pure exhaustion note, in which case I think that would be for the lifter to judge.[/quote]
IMO, if you can get a good shoulder workout after training legs, you’re either not training legs hard enough or not training shoulders hard enough. Probably both.
Fatigue is real.[/quote]
This.
My leg session takes around an hour. Say a typical leg day goes like:
Front squat
Leg Press, Leg extension, whatever
Hamstring curl
Standing calf raise
Seated calf raise
I sure aint training shoulders (which is another 50 mins to an hour) an top of that! Especially if they’re a weak body part and need prioritized. Perhaps we train quite differently, but I’ve never trained with (or even witnessed) another bodybuilder who would do this either.
look up John Romaniello’s specialization article, or CT’s HSS-100 shoulder routine. They outline pretty good splits. However, I agree with X 3 days isn’t enough to build muscle.
[quote]mr popular wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]mr popular wrote:
Combining chest and shoulders is jut a personal preference for me, because I know that my shoulder joints would hate me if I was pressing 3 times a week.
It doesn’t really matter how you split it up, as long as you’re still able to increase your poundages.[/quote]
Then it sounds like you need to teach your shoulders to adapt. My shoulder workout alone takes an hour. My chest workout alone is at least 40-45min.
Eventually, you may not be able to train them together…so what then?[/quote]
I didn’t mean to imply that I currently train them together. I don’t.
What I meant was that if I felt my shoulders were lagging behind the rest of the body, I would use the routine I outlined in my first post. Assuming my chest was up to par, I wouldn’t have any problem training it after shoulders (incidentally, Flex Wheeler did this).
I get problems when I do heavy pressing more than twice a week because of a shoulder separation I had over a year ago. I would love to adapt my shoulders to a higher frequency of training, but how do I get around the nagging aches and pains? Any ideas?[/quote]
In that case, you can play it safe and only press overhead once a week (on delt day, together with rear and side), then do rear and side delts on chest day again… And maybe some front raises if your front delts are lagging.
That way you can train chest first and it (esp. with incline) would basically be your front delt workout for that day.
There you have the best of both worlds I guess… I’m doing this currently as I’m trying to bring my rear and side delts up more, but my front delts and overhead pressing strength are already so great I don’t see the need to do overhead presses twice a week… Would likely be more detrimental than anything in my situation (physique wise, my shoulders are still healthy with the exception of some posterior tightness when /after squatting).
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
Why? Maybe if you’re doing push press, but if you’re doing seated presses and maybe even seated raises, i don’t see the problem. Unless you’re talking about on a pure exhaustion note, in which case I think that would be for the lifter to judge.[/quote]
IMO, if you can get a good shoulder workout after training legs, you’re either not training legs hard enough or not training shoulders hard enough. Probably both.
Fatigue is real.[/quote]
Pairing delts with back works fairly well for guys who aren’t pushing/rowing huge weights yet… I.e. shoulders before back on that day.
Don’t like delts+legs much, especially if you do back squats… Too easy to mess up your shoulders there (posterior tightness etc… If you train delts first, your shoulders will be tight and that is not a good thing when back-squatting, or too tired for front squatting… If you do them last, not only should you have no energy as others mentioned, your delts would likely also eventually develop issues due to the squatting and then pressing heavy…).
I rotate so I always do something twice a week. I do a 4 day rotation and work out 5 days a week. So whatever I do on day 1, i do again on day 5. The next week I start with day 2 and do that twice etc…
It’s nice too because that way I am also rotating what I start the workout week with and for me those are the best workouts. With work and kids… the end of the week workouts are tougher.
While not everyone has my schedule and commitments, I think the basic strengths of that would still hold pertinent to those who get more rest etc.
How about splitting shoulders up into their 3 parts and putting one with each day, i.e.
Chest/tri (plus anterior delts)
Legs (plus medial delts)
Back/bi (plus posterior delts)
[quote]Lucky Number 13 wrote:
How about splitting shoulders up into their 3 parts and putting one with each day, i.e.
Chest/tri (plus anterior delts)
Legs (plus medial delts)
Back/bi (plus posterior delts)[/quote]
You would do this, why?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Lucky Number 13 wrote:
How about splitting shoulders up into their 3 parts and putting one with each day, i.e.
Chest/tri (plus anterior delts)
Legs (plus medial delts)
Back/bi (plus posterior delts)[/quote]
You would do this, why?[/quote]
Because he doesn’t realize it’s unlikely to train 1 part of the delts without training the other parts.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Lucky Number 13 wrote:
How about splitting shoulders up into their 3 parts and putting one with each day, i.e.
Chest/tri (plus anterior delts)
Legs (plus medial delts)
Back/bi (plus posterior delts)[/quote]
You would do this, why?[/quote]
Because he doesn’t realize it’s unlikely to train 1 part of the delts without training the other parts.[/quote]
Lanky… where you been? Your humor has been missed.
[quote]DJS wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Lucky Number 13 wrote:
How about splitting shoulders up into their 3 parts and putting one with each day, i.e.
Chest/tri (plus anterior delts)
Legs (plus medial delts)
Back/bi (plus posterior delts)[/quote]
You would do this, why?[/quote]
Because he doesn’t realize it’s unlikely to train 1 part of the delts without training the other parts.[/quote]
Lanky… where you been? Your humor has been missed.
[/quote]
Mopping floors, man. Mopping floors. 
[
Mopping floors, man. Mopping floors. ;)[/quote]
I pictured you singing this:
…two hours of pushin’ broom
buys an eight by twelve four-bit room…
I should be writing this for myself 
If shoulders are lagging, hit them twice a week. Even if the workouts are 30-45 minutes, if they are dedicated to just shoulders, you can likely hit them with enough intensity to get the job done, although an hour twice a week would be better, without a doubt, but the higher you go with the volume of these two sessions, you’ll probably have to cut back elsewhere. You can only specialize one area at a time after all (unfortunately).
Also you’ve gotta make sure you have the right exercises. You’ve gotta include at a minimum a heavy pressing movement for low reps and a lateral movement for medium-high reps. Focus on lots of sets of those two things, and you’re 90% of the way there. Keep the program design intelligent and ensure you get a good amount of sets with heavy presses and medium to high rep lateral variations. Oh yeah and rear delts can and should be hit with laterals too.
If you have ADD then you can add some other exercises too, like cleans, push presses, snatches, upright rows, etc but don’t get stupid with it. Everything else is gravy as long as you get these done and keep the intensity high.