[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
In fact, I work with inner-city minorities and have for the better part of 10 years. If I thought “no more need for improvements”, I’d go buy a Playstation and stop helping black kids whose biggest problems isn’t “the system”, but abandonment by their parents.[/quote]
Very cool, Thunderbolt. Those are lucky kids.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
<<< In fact, I work with inner-city minorities and have for the better part of 10 years. If I thought “no more need for improvements”, I’d go buy a Playstation and stop helping black kids whose biggest problems isn’t “the system”, but abandonment by their parents.[/quote]
I didn’t see this until the other guy quoted it.
This, my friend, is THE, THEEEEEE issue facing blacks. I live 2 blocks from the Detroit city limit, the blackest big city in the United States where the vast majority of children are born out of wedlock, no fathers anywhere though theirs they may be better off without and mothers entirely unequipped to raise them.
I don’t think I ever told this story here so I will now. One of the singularly most memorable conversations of my life.
I spent 7 long miserable years living in New York, Long Island, and for 3 of them in the early nineties I drove deliveries for a non prescription pharmaceutical supplier in NYC, Westchester county and eastern Jersey.
One of my deliveries was a pharmacy on 125th street, ironically also called Martin Luther King Jr. blvd, right across the street form the Apollo Theater. This is Harlem and nary a white face in sight. My first time there I was delivering saline irrigation solutions which are very heavy boxes of bottles of liquid.
This place has one of those doors that no matter how hard you try to throw it open with your foot it closes too fast to get yourself in with a handtruck. The black owner, in about his fifties or so, saw me killing myself trying to get that first load through the door and came out to help. He walked out on the street and said to my utter shock, in a loud voice clearly designed to be heard by the crowds all over the sidewalk: [quote]I’ll get that for ya son, these niggers ain’t gonna help you[/quote]
I kinda sheepishly thanked him and when we got inside he could see the discomfort and puzzlement on my face at what he’d said. He said, don’t mind me, I just really can’t stand what’s become of this place and a conversation ensued.
I wound up in his office with him showing me a picture album of when he was a kid growing up there in the forties and fifties. Children in uniforms lined up at school, family gatherings, church, funerals etc. He was visibly upset. He told me how he remembered when you got smacked in the mouth by your own father if you lipped off to your elders and now kids roam the drug filled streets with guns, parentless and futureless.
It was from him I first heard the statistic that 78% of violent crime in NYC was black on black. He sneered, all I ever hear is how white people are the problem and we’re raping and murdering each other. He did all the talking. He said he believed it was the disintegration of the family in the wake of government programs that absolve men of their fatherly responsibilities that largely facilitated this.
He even said he would gladly go back to the days of real institutionalized racism if this were the alternative. I spent about a half hour with him that day, blew my whole delivery schedule and was late for my workout later. I was riveted and a whole bunch of controversial topics lost their controversy for me that day. I’ve never viewed black white relations in this country the same since. We became friendly and he was the only one of any of my stops that gave me a Christmas card and a tip along with a hug.
Barack Obama, far FAR from standing for [quote]“change we can believe in”[/quote] represents more and more and more and MORE of the SAME damn big government bullshit that got us here in the first place. Racism is an abomination. It needed and needs to be expunged from our national fabric, but we have done all the wrong things to accomplish that and an Obama presidency will be a disastrous latest chapter in that already tragic book.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I didn’t see this until the other guy quoted it.
This, my friend, is THE, THEEEEEE issue facing blacks. I live 2 blocks from the Detroit city limit, the blackest big city in the United States where the vast majority of children are born out of wedlock, no fathers anywhere though theirs they may be better off without and mothers entirely unequipped to raise them.
I don’t think I ever told this story here so I will now. One of the singularly most memorable conversations of my life.
I spent 7 long miserable years living in New York, Long Island, and for 3 of them in the early nineties I drove deliveries for a non prescription pharmaceutical supplier in NYC, Westchester county and eastern Jersey.
One of my deliveries was a pharmacy on 125th street, ironically also called Martin Luther King Jr. blvd, right across the street form the Apollo Theater. This is Harlem and nary a white face in sight. My first time there I was delivering saline irrigation solutions which are very heavy boxes of bottles of liquid.
This place has one of those doors that no matter how hard you try to throw it open with your foot it closes too fast to get yourself in with a handtruck. The black owner, in about his fifties or so, saw me killing myself trying to get that first load through the door and came out to help. He walked out on the street and said to my utter shock, in a loud voice clearly designed to be heard by the crowds all over the sidewalk: I’ll get that for ya son, these niggers ain’t gonna help you
I kinda sheepishly thanked him and when we got inside he could see the discomfort and puzzlement on my face at what he’d said. He said, don’t mind me, I just really can’t stand what’s become of this place and a conversation ensued.
I wound up in his office with him showing me a picture album of when he was a kid growing up there in the forties and fifties. Children in uniforms lined up at school, family gatherings, church, funerals etc. He was visibly upset. He told me how he remembered when you got smacked in the mouth by your own father if you lipped off to your elders and now kids roam the drug filled streets with guns, parentless and futureless.
It was from him I first heard the statistic that 78% of violent crime in NYC was black on black. He sneered, all I ever hear is how white people are the problem and we’re raping and murdering each other. He did all the talking. He said he believed it was the disintegration of the family in the wake of government programs that absolve men of their fatherly responsibilities that largely facilitated this.
He even said he would gladly go back to the days of real institutionalized racism if this were the alternative. I spent about a half hour with him that day, blew my whole delivery schedule and was late for my workout later. I was riveted and a whole bunch of controversial topics lost their controversy for me that day. I’ve never viewed black white relations in this country the same since. We became friendly and he was the only one of any of my stops that gave me a Christmas card and a tip along with a hug.
Barack Obama, far FAR from standing for “change we can believe in” represents more and more and more and MORE of the SAME damn big government bullshit that got us here in the first place. Racism is an abomination. It needed and needs to be expunged from our national fabric, but we have done all the wrong things to accomplish that and an Obama presidency will be a disastrous latest chapter in that already tragic book.[/quote]
Meanwhile, the one candidate that fully understands this and wants to put family first, Alan Keyes, gets completely overlooked and even scoffed at.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
<<< In fact, I work with inner-city minorities and have for the better part of 10 years. If I thought “no more need for improvements”, I’d go buy a Playstation and stop helping black kids whose biggest problems isn’t “the system”, but abandonment by their parents.
I didn’t see this until the other guy quoted it.
This, my friend, is THE, THEEEEEE issue facing blacks. I live 2 blocks from the Detroit city limit, the blackest big city in the United States where the vast majority of children are born out of wedlock, no fathers anywhere though theirs they may be better off without and mothers entirely unequipped to raise them.
I don’t think I ever told this story here so I will now. One of the singularly most memorable conversations of my life.
I spent 7 long miserable years living in New York, Long Island, and for 3 of them in the early nineties I drove deliveries for a non prescription pharmaceutical supplier in NYC, Westchester county and eastern Jersey.
One of my deliveries was a pharmacy on 125th street, ironically also called Martin Luther King Jr. blvd, right across the street form the Apollo Theater. This is Harlem and nary a white face in sight. My first time there I was delivering saline irrigation solutions which are very heavy boxes of bottles of liquid.
This place has one of those doors that no matter how hard you try to throw it open with your foot it closes too fast to get yourself in with a handtruck. The black owner, in about his fifties or so, saw me killing myself trying to get that first load through the door and came out to help. He walked out on the street and said to my utter shock, in a loud voice clearly designed to be heard by the crowds all over the sidewalk: I’ll get that for ya son, these niggers ain’t gonna help you
I kinda sheepishly thanked him and when we got inside he could see the discomfort and puzzlement on my face at what he’d said. He said, don’t mind me, I just really can’t stand what’s become of this place and a conversation ensued.
I wound up in his office with him showing me a picture album of when he was a kid growing up there in the forties and fifties. Children in uniforms lined up at school, family gatherings, church, funerals etc. He was visibly upset. He told me how he remembered when you got smacked in the mouth by your own father if you lipped off to your elders and now kids roam the drug filled streets with guns, parentless and futureless.
It was from him I first heard the statistic that 78% of violent crime in NYC was black on black. He sneered, all I ever hear is how white people are the problem and we’re raping and murdering each other. He did all the talking. He said he believed it was the disintegration of the family in the wake of government programs that absolve men of their fatherly responsibilities that largely facilitated this.
He even said he would gladly go back to the days of real institutionalized racism if this were the alternative. I spent about a half hour with him that day, blew my whole delivery schedule and was late for my workout later. I was riveted and a whole bunch of controversial topics lost their controversy for me that day. I’ve never viewed black white relations in this country the same since. We became friendly and he was the only one of any of my stops that gave me a Christmas card and a tip along with a hug.
Barack Obama, far FAR from standing for “change we can believe in” represents more and more and more and MORE of the SAME damn big government bullshit that got us here in the first place. Racism is an abomination. It needed and needs to be expunged from our national fabric, but we have done all the wrong things to accomplish that and an Obama presidency will be a disastrous latest chapter in that already tragic book.[/quote]
Trib,
This is one fantastic post. I applaud you, sir.
I’d like to put your friend in a room with pox. I’d pay money to watch pox being educated. He couldn’t dismiss perfectaly valid criticisms and suggestions with his, “You don’t understand if you haven’t been there.”
I also wanted to say that the most moving part of your story is the desperation evident when he said he’d rather go back to institutionalized racism. This reminds me of the starving Russians who want communism back. They say things like, “At least we had food.”
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Very cool, Thunderbolt. Those are lucky kids.[/quote]
If I ever meet an inner-city kid who uses words like “shibboleth” and “mollycoddle” in conversation, I’ll know who’s responsible.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
In fact, I work with inner-city minorities and have for the better part of 10 years. If I thought “no more need for improvements”, I’d go buy a Playstation and stop helping black kids whose biggest problems isn’t “the system”, but abandonment by their parents.[/quote]
Good stuff TB. I think very few of us believe racism has vanished. No, I think many of us simply believe that racism today is one of the lesser factors in holding back a young minority. Especially in Black and Hispanic populations.
I think the intact family is the biggest challenge by far. Mark my words, increase the amount of intact families and you’ll increase prosperity. That’s not a racial obvservation, but a cultural one. Whites are no less susceptible to the destructive effects of broken homes. Our own stats are falling short of historical levels, as far as the intact home is concerned. So, we aren’t immune.
For myself, I’ve hinted at my own upringing; the “Poor white trailer trash kid,” raised in a broken home. Trust me, many (if not most) of the neighborhood white kids I grew up with didn’t escape poverty, alcoholism, drug addiction, or crime. Noone, I repeat noone, handed me the whiteboy key to success. I had to make decisions in opposition to all the enviromental influences around me.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
For myself, I’ve hinted at my own upringing; the “Poor white trailer trash kid,” raised in a broken home. Trust me, many (if not most) of the neighborhood white kids I grew up with didn’t escape poverty, alcoholism, drug addiction, or crime. Noone, I repeat noone, handed me the whiteboy key to success. I had to make decisions in opposition to all the enviromental influences around me.[/quote]
On the other hand, you get all those supermarkets and gas stations “Whites Only” discounts.
[quote]pookie wrote:
On the other hand, you get all those supermarkets and gas stations “Whites Only” discounts.
[/quote]
Well, I did lose my discount card. Still need to stop by the Bureau of Caucasian affairs to secure a copy. It’s outrageous, me having to pay the minority rates!
[quote]Sloth wrote:
pookie wrote:
On the other hand, you get all those supermarkets and gas stations “Whites Only” discounts.
Well, I did lose my discount card. Still need to stop by the Bureau of Caucasian affairs to secure a copy. It’s outrageous, me having to pay the minority rates![/quote]
Get the RFID. It is much easier.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
100meters wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
<<< Your blind faith in bad economics does not make me feel more secure about America’s prosperity.
You took the words right outta my fingers. I continue to be unceasingly mystified by people’s starry eyed confidence in the ability of government bureaucrats to spend their money more efficiently than they can.
Not only is it theoretically flawed, but it’s been a loud grotesque disaster everywhere it’s been tried and in direct proportion to it’s purity.
How has the last century been a disaster for this country? Because taxes have only been higher going backwards?
Why is it so hard to grasp the concept of taxes need to be set at appropriate levels, and these levels could be higher or lower depending on the circumstances? We are in debt, and the debt is increasing, therefore we need more money. When we have money in the bank we need less money. Simple concepts for anybody, except the greedy (Kudlow) and the stupid (conservatives).
Lowering taxes INCREASES revenues in a free market which this is admittedly resembling less and less. There are some very hard historical numbers that make this undeniable. During the Eighties revenues went through the roof in the wake of lowered taxes, but not even Reagan could stop the socialists like you in congress from spending it all on vast astronomically large programs that continue to this day to fly in the face of everything this country stands for.
Some research would hit you between the eyes with these facts, but the peoples republic of Massachusetts has a very low population of citizens who entangle themselves in trivialities like facts or history when there’s all these neato big government theories to inflict upon themselves.
There are a number of reasons why this country will not survive in it’s historical form and this could be debated to the tune of thousands of pages in a forum like this which is the reason I so rarely get involved. It’s pointless. I started my adult life as a hippified, peace, love, party down dumbass and spent the last 20 years paying attention to reality and learning the grave errors in my thinking. Nobody is changing my mind and long after I’ve left this thread which is going to be soon, nobody else’s will be changed either.[/quote]
What kind of hard historical numbers do you have? As is commonly pointed out adjusted for “inflation” and “population growth” revenue under reagan was average at best. Now the 90’s is a different story.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
No, it is racist. Your arbitrary confounding of racism notwithstanding, when you assign any kind of value or privilege on the basis of ethnicity alone, it is racism - “superiority” has nothing to do with it.
Again…as if it hasn’t been written before, this would mean the Civil Rights movement is also RACIST according to this definition and every single effort by it as well. If you believe this there is something wrong.
Completely false. The Civil Rights movement, as noted before, was not interested in privileging a race - the movement wanted the opposite result. It wanted to de-privilege race and create equality of opportunity, not equality of result. Originally, that is.
What you want is equality of result - not the same thing as equality of opportunity.[/quote]
Actually, I think Prof X is really making an affirmative action argument. It’s OK to prefer a black candidate based on race, because we’ve never had a black President. Just like it would be OK to give preference to black law school candidates, because they were traditionally underrepresented.
Frankly, if I were Obama, I’d like to think that, given a great educational background, and some national political experience, I could compete solely on merit. But people vote for certain candidates for a variety of reasons. Always have.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
<<< In fact, I work with inner-city minorities and have for the better part of 10 years. If I thought “no more need for improvements”, I’d go buy a Playstation and stop helping black kids whose biggest problems isn’t “the system”, but abandonment by their parents.
I didn’t see this until the other guy quoted it.
This, my friend, is THE, THEEEEEE issue facing blacks. I live 2 blocks from the Detroit city limit, the blackest big city in the United States where the vast majority of children are born out of wedlock, no fathers anywhere though theirs they may be better off without and mothers entirely unequipped to raise them.
I don’t think I ever told this story here so I will now. One of the singularly most memorable conversations of my life.
I spent 7 long miserable years living in New York, Long Island, and for 3 of them in the early nineties I drove deliveries for a non prescription pharmaceutical supplier in NYC, Westchester county and eastern Jersey.
One of my deliveries was a pharmacy on 125th street, ironically also called Martin Luther King Jr. blvd, right across the street form the Apollo Theater. This is Harlem and nary a white face in sight. My first time there I was delivering saline irrigation solutions which are very heavy boxes of bottles of liquid.
This place has one of those doors that no matter how hard you try to throw it open with your foot it closes too fast to get yourself in with a handtruck. The black owner, in about his fifties or so, saw me killing myself trying to get that first load through the door and came out to help. He walked out on the street and said to my utter shock, in a loud voice clearly designed to be heard by the crowds all over the sidewalk: I’ll get that for ya son, these niggers ain’t gonna help you
I kinda sheepishly thanked him and when we got inside he could see the discomfort and puzzlement on my face at what he’d said. He said, don’t mind me, I just really can’t stand what’s become of this place and a conversation ensued.
I wound up in his office with him showing me a picture album of when he was a kid growing up there in the forties and fifties. Children in uniforms lined up at school, family gatherings, church, funerals etc. He was visibly upset. He told me how he remembered when you got smacked in the mouth by your own father if you lipped off to your elders and now kids roam the drug filled streets with guns, parentless and futureless.
It was from him I first heard the statistic that 78% of violent crime in NYC was black on black. He sneered, all I ever hear is how white people are the problem and we’re raping and murdering each other. He did all the talking. He said he believed it was the disintegration of the family in the wake of government programs that absolve men of their fatherly responsibilities that largely facilitated this.
He even said he would gladly go back to the days of real institutionalized racism if this were the alternative. I spent about a half hour with him that day, blew my whole delivery schedule and was late for my workout later. I was riveted and a whole bunch of controversial topics lost their controversy for me that day. I’ve never viewed black white relations in this country the same since. We became friendly and he was the only one of any of my stops that gave me a Christmas card and a tip along with a hug.
Barack Obama, far FAR from standing for “change we can believe in” represents more and more and more and MORE of the SAME damn big government bullshit that got us here in the first place. Racism is an abomination. It needed and needs to be expunged from our national fabric, but we have done all the wrong things to accomplish that and an Obama presidency will be a disastrous latest chapter in that already tragic book.
Trib,
This is one fantastic post. I applaud you, sir.
I’d like to put your friend in a room with pox. I’d pay money to watch pox being educated. He couldn’t dismiss perfectaly valid criticisms and suggestions with his, “You don’t understand if you haven’t been there.”
I also wanted to say that the most moving part of your story is the desperation evident when he said he’d rather go back to institutionalized racism. This reminds me of the starving Russians who want communism back. They say things like, “At least we had food.”
[/quote]
Bill Cosby has been saying much the same stuff for a few years now, and he gets crucified in the media for it. He certainly recognizes the existence of racism, on the individual level, and the system level.
He just believes that the best answer is not to dwell on it, and as Professoor X has said, go out and outwork the competition. Some of that is going to require family structure and discipline that oftern seems lacking, even in poorer white households.
Professor X has been and will remain one of my favorite people here. I meant nothing I’ve said as an attack on him or even for that matter even directed at him individually ad none of this goes exclusively for blacks either. A free people of any race will never be stronger than it’s families, hence the steadily increasing decline of our country. I am one guy who actually and really does not see any qualitative difference between people based on ethnic origin.
The EXACT same principles that made this country great for white people can make it great for anybody. Unfortunately guys like Obama (or Hillary) don’t see it that way.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
<<< In fact, I work with inner-city minorities and have for the better part of 10 years. If I thought “no more need for improvements”, I’d go buy a Playstation and stop helping black kids whose biggest problems isn’t “the system”, but abandonment by their parents.
I didn’t see this until the other guy quoted it.
This, my friend, is THE, THEEEEEE issue facing blacks. I live 2 blocks from the Detroit city limit, the blackest big city in the United States where the vast majority of children are born out of wedlock, no fathers anywhere though theirs they may be better off without and mothers entirely unequipped to raise them.
[/quote]
I wouldn’t say that is THE issue,but a fraction of it. I think the REAL issue is the lack of social family system in its entirety. I’m gonna rant a little bit…but keep in mind that most of what I’m saying is a reflection of my own experiences and background.
Anyways,the black community used to be exactly that…it was an extended family.It was more than just the neighborhood you lived in. You wasn’t raised by just your father and mother. You were raised by the whole community…which has its roots back to before slavery. Thats just how it was. My aunts,uncles,etc. were
the adults…I was the child. Plain and simple.
If I acted up for ANY adult in my family,my ass was grass. In fact,if I was acting up or doing something wrong in the neighborhood…any adult was just that…the adult…and my ass was still grass. I didn’t get away with a damn thing.
I do see the relation with the lack of strong father figure…Here’s a little something about me I will share:
My dad was in the Air Force…and somewhere down the line became addicted to crack cocaine…so I experienced fights between my parents…being poor because my dad was selling everything in sight and burning his paychecks(when he was earning one) in a single day. No matter how young you are…you pick up on these things.
Anyways,I remember the resentment I had as a child towards my dad…and in some ways,I acted out because of it. I started doing shit…I knew was wrong. I actually remember as a child…NOT CARING. Something is wrong when that is the case.
Maybe a part of me thought that it was ok since my dad was doing some of the same things. I remember I started picking up the habit of shoplifting shit. I remember finally getting caught…not by a store employee,but by “Mr.Brown” that attended our CHURCH…and just so happened to be shopping that day. He scolded me and told my mom. Lets just say my ass was darker than the rest of me for a few days. I got an ass whooping from every member of my family…I think the neighbor chipped in,too.
Anyways…I remember the conversation between my mom and dad. My mom was furious…and BLAMED MY DAD. She told him straight up…“This is your doing.” It took me years to realize that things I did as a child were in fact a result of my dad’s relationship with me. Well…and also you can see the direct effect of the black social community in that moment in my childhood.
So basically…I can’t say that you’re wrong,BUT that its bigger than the lack of fathers,mothers,etc. “Mr.Brown” today would probably be straight up disrespected by the kid,accused of child abuse,attempted kidnapping…lol. And most likely would be confronted by the mom for “handling” her child. Just different times. I’m only 29 years old…to maybe help put all of this in perspective.
Well,the black social family is still there…but its fading badly. I hear it whenever my wife has an “issue” with a parent who’s upset because she’s setting their kids straight. I wish I could elaborate more,but I’m in a time crunch…but I figured I could “contribute” something.
[quote]
“…”
He even said he would gladly go back to the days of real institutionalized racism if this were the alternative. I spent about a half hour with him that day, blew my whole delivery schedule and was late for my workout later. I was riveted and a whole bunch of controversial topics lost their controversy for me that day. I’ve never viewed black white relations in this country the same since. We became friendly and he was the only one of any of my stops that gave me a Christmas card and a tip along with a hug.
Barack Obama, far FAR from standing for “change we can believe in” represents more and more and more and MORE of the SAME damn big government bullshit that got us here in the first place. Racism is an abomination. It needed and needs to be expunged from our national fabric, but we have done all the wrong things to accomplish that and an Obama presidency will be a disastrous latest chapter in that already tragic book.[/quote]
Institutionalized racism is not an alternative…it was part of the problem to begin with. Its almost like the felon who’s been to jail many times… and eventually feels more comfortable in jail. I understand the premise of that argument: racism and oppression in a since “forced” us to be united and allowed for the strong social family network of the black community.
But I am failing to see how Obama represents “tragedy” in relation to all that has been mentioned. I could think of a million other people that represent the “bullshit” that got us here in the first place as you said.
[quote]Skuebb wrote:
Bill Cosby has been saying much the same stuff for a few years now, and he gets crucified in the media for it. He certainly recognizes the existence of racism, on the individual level, and the system level.
He just believes that the best answer is not to dwell on it, and as Professoor X has said, go out and outwork the competition. Some of that is going to require family structure and discipline that oftern seems lacking, even in poorer white households.
[/quote]
However, without family structure or discipline, how could that possibly happen? I had guidance. I had my grandmother and two parents who tried extremely hard (and dealt with so much prejudice growing up that most here wouldn’t have made it through…they actually had to deal with “whites only” and “coloreds only” drinking fountains). I was told that there was racism and that I had to be prepared for it.
I was taught that I would have to be the better candidate just to be seen as equal. My parents were right. There is no way I could have just been “as good as” and made it to this point in my life. It is one thing to “dwell on it” as you put it, and quite another to recognize it, be prepared for it, and be raised to overcome it.
I think any kid who is a minority being taught that racism is not a factor at all will be ill prepared. The ones being taught they can’t succeed because of it are in the same danger.
As far as Bill Cosby, he gets “crucified” because he does not speak for me. The man speaks as if he is completely disconnected from today’s minority youth. Some of you may want to let the air out of your heads if you truly believe your perspective is so superior to an entire race of people in majority.
If someone wants to know what I think, they shouldn’t ask Cosby.
They shouldn’t ask Sharpton.
They shouldn’t ask Jesse Jackson.
What I would like to know is who the fuck is the “white peoples’ spokesperson”? Who do we turn to in order to represent what most white people think?
If you don’t have one, then quit being little turds and looking for one that represents me or any other minority.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
He even said he would gladly go back to the days of real institutionalized racism if this were the alternative.[/quote]
Wow.
[quote]pookie wrote:
If I ever meet an inner-city kid who uses words like “shibboleth” and “mollycoddle” in conversation, I’ll know who’s responsible.[/quote]
I laughed for damn near a half hour over that. Good stuff.
I’ll take this opportunity to humbly opine on the topic related to my experiences - with the caveat that I don’t presume to speak for all, just on what I have seen.
We have lots of academic discussion about “institutional racism” - but, and follow the point, most of the kids I have worked with would love the opportunity to get far enough in life to be denied opportunities because of “institutional racism”. They don’t get those chances, often times - and it can’t be blamed on racism.
Nor is the cause that holds them back even all that attributable to “institutional racism” that held their parents back - most often, the very best influence these inner-city black kids have are the grandparents, and these grandparents came of age and responsibility against even harsher forms of racism in their day. If “institutional racism” was the cause, the grandparents would be even worse equipped to provide a life for these kids - and yet, they aren’t. They are excellent. The grandparents are smart, responsible, family-oriented, and encouraging of academic and social success of the kids - and racism was demonstrably worse in their day.
Complaining about “institutional racism” is like complaining that the 25th mile of a marathon is unfair, when it’s clear most black kids - again, that I have experienced - never make it to the 10th mile.
We simply don’t know how much “institutional racism” affects black kid’s success or failure - most of the time, they never reach a point where it becomes much of an issue. They are failed long before that. It doesn’t do any good to complain that black kids are being denied opportunities they have worked hard for by their racist betters when they reflexively pass on opportunities otherwise presented to them for other reasons.
The story, sadly, remains the same - a talented, bright black kid has an absent father and friends who chastise him for being a traitor to his race if he does well in school. I have actually had confrontations with suddenly interested fathers who are displeased with me for turning his kid “white” by trying to teach them grammar or math.
Difficult circumstances - but I remain optimistic. But what is needed is less persecution complex and more personal responsibility and cultivation of character - because the price of not doing so is committing this generation of kids to a doom they don’t deserve.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
He even said he would gladly go back to the days of real institutionalized racism if this were the alternative.
Wow.[/quote]
By this he meant given the choice between what his community had become and what it was in days gone by he would choose the former as nothing could have been more harmful to blacks than the misguided attempts at federally legislated aid and “equality”.
It’s undeniable that stereotypical barriers have and do exist. They shouldn’t, but they do. I’m against them, do not practice them, teach my children that they are wrong and have taken heat from some people for my unwavering belief in all men being created equal. You wanna see some racism my friend? visit Detroit for a day. Were suffocating in it from all sides.
However I’m also against the enactment of racially based laws in most instances for several reasons not the least of which is that they just plain do not work. It is not humanly possible to be presented with more evidence of this. It’s devastating to the very people it purports to be helping.
In a free society and indeed for it to remain free, it’s citizens must do the socially right thing because it’s the right thing to do. Despotic attempts at legislating them into good people are by definition doomed to failure. In other words as long as people harbor bigotry in their hearts no amount or degree of legal force will make any substantial difference and taking money or opportunity from one group and giving to the other is a sure fire recipe for continued resentment and condescension even if race isn’t the issue.
These are huge topics that bear no fruit in forums like these which is why I usually stay out of them. Hell you can’t even get people to agree to eat in order to fuel their training nevermind getting anywhere with something like this.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
By this he meant given the choice between what his community had become and what it was in days gone by he would choose the former as nothing could have been more harmful to blacks than the misguided attempts at federally legislated aid and “equality”.[/quote]
Yes, and by “wow” I mean this guy is a fucking nut case and I am amazed you don’t see anything wrong with that statement. Every old person I know claims young people were more respectful when they were young. I swear you must get a set of rose colored retroactive sunglasses once you hit 60.
[quote]
It’s undeniable that stereotypical barriers have and do exist. They shouldn’t, but they do. I’m against them, do not practice them, teach my children that they are wrong and have taken heat from some people for my unwavering belief in all men being created equal. You wanna see some racism my friend? visit Detroit for a day. Were suffocating in it from all sides.[/quote]
It is one thing to claim they “exist” and quite another to explain away every instance of it ever mentioned by a minority unless a burning cross was actually involved.
[quote]
However I’m also against the enactment of racially based laws in most instances for several reasons not the least of which is that they just plain do not work. It is not humanly possible to be presented with more evidence of this. It’s devastating to the very people it purports to be helping.[/quote]
Right. Clearly, affirmative action had absolutely no positive effect on the community as a whole. Right.
[quote]
In a free society and indeed for it to remain free, it’s citizens must do the socially right thing because it’s the right thing to do. Despotic attempts at legislating them into good people are by definition doomed to failure. In other words as long as people harbor bigotry in their hearts no amount or degree of legal force will make any substantial difference and taking money or opportunity from one group and giving to the other is a sure fire recipe for continued resentment and condescension even if race isn’t the issue.[/quote]
You’re right. We should still be at the mercy of “good 'ole boy” networks in hopes that one day they will change from the goodness in their hearts and hire some black folks over every other applicant who isn’t.
Cue violin music and piano solo from Mr. Brian McKnight!!!
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The EXACT same principles that made this country great for white people can make it great for anybody. Unfortunately guys like Obama (or Hillary) don’t see it that way.[/quote]
I hope you elaborate on this…because it just doesn’t make any damn sense.