Hey guys and gals,
I’ve been off my cycle for almost 2 months now and I got blood work done a couple days ago. The doctor said my liver enzymes where highly elevated… ALT was in the 300’s!
Since I’ve been off my cycle for a while should that have gone down by now or does it take a while? Or maybe even another medical reason is causing it? I am not currently drinking or taking any medications that are metabolized in the liver.
Hmmm
No alcohol at all. until those values come down.
If you damaged your liver on cycle it will heal, its just going to take some time to do so.
Did you PCT with an SERM ? estrogens help tremendously with liver values post cycle.
What about tylenol ? Anything with acetaminophen in it ?
What was your last cycle ? dosages and length ?
Drink plenty of water, go get some liv52 or milk thistle, its cheap enough.
Cycle details please.
Cycle was pretty minimal
8 weeks long, TestE 250mg 2x a week. As well as a 4 week kickstart of dbol 25mg ED.
No PCT.
[quote]jefferson987 wrote:
No PCT.
[/quote]
Always a good choice.
Any other drugs?
Acetaminophen/Paracetamol? Antibiotics?
Alcohol?
Any knowledge of values pre-cycle?
How was AST? The ratio is quite important!
I dont know the exact figure but the AST is in the 300’s as well. And as I previously mentioned, no other drugs or alcohol.
What were the values before the cycle?
WOW no PCT that must have been rough?
How is the estrogen levels? Did you manage to keep some gains?
[quote]jefferson987 wrote:
No PCT.
[/quote]
Ding Ding Ding we have a winner.
The PCT isnt just for your HPTA, it is for recovery of your whole body.
Rapid hormone shifts and imbalances could prevent your liver from healing properly after it was damaged by the weeks of dbol.
I would say this, combined with regular alcohol usage in the past is the culprit.
Did you used to party alot ?
Damn, that’s a high value any way that you look at it.
Listen to your doctor first and foremost of course… but I’d probably pick up some NAC if I was you. There are several good references on its benefit to liver glutathione levels, leading to improved enzyme levels.
For better perspecive, do you happen to know what your GGT (gamma glutamyl transpeptidase) value was on the blood panel? It’s often overshadowed by ALT, AST and protein levels and may not be tested for initially, but it can be highly informative. For that matter, how was AST?
Had you been lifting like a madman prior to the test? ALT does rise as a result of lifting, though not that high…
No not much partying…
I don’t usually use pct because I’ve never had problems with gyno or keeping gains.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
jefferson987 wrote:
No PCT.
Ding Ding Ding we have a winner.
The PCT isnt just for your HPTA, it is for recovery of your whole body.
Rapid hormone shifts and imbalances could prevent your liver from healing properly after it was damaged by the weeks of dbol.
I would say this, combined with regular alcohol usage in the past is the culprit.
Did you used to party alot ?[/quote]
A genuine question WC, how can the HPTA and related hormones we are interested in affect the recovery/restoration of the liver?
B
[quote] Brook wrote:
A genuine question WC, how can the HPTA and related hormones we are interested in affect the recovery/restoration of the liver?
B[/quote]
Estrogen is quite important to your overall body, you actually need a certain amount of it to move I believe.
Now I do know for a fact that a lack of estrogen in the system can impair liver function, and that if the liver is damaged, a lack of estrogen can significantly extend the time needed to repair that damage.
I also know that my liver values by bloodwork are usually pretty bad as I finish the 4-5 week of orals, and that they don’t recover significantly till I get to the PCT.
SERM’s are active estrogens in the liver, and can rapidly rebound liver values and assist in regeneration.
I do know that in several studies, Nolva has been shown to improve liver values over base line fairly significantly, after all your GREATLY increasing the amount of estrogen in your body, even if its only active at certain receptors, its active in the liver, and your liver doesn’t know the difference.
Now I cant find any specific studies that have given SERMs to male bodybuilders at high doses post cycle, with mild liver damage, but I think its pretty safe to assume from simple logic, and my bloodwork, that SERMs are highly beneficial to our liver values.
The HPTA is responsible for estrogen production, indirectly, and even if estrogen levels are relatively normal, rapid fluctuations in the hormone levels is likely rough on the body.
Weve all seen evidence of this, hairloss, moodiness, etc.
The PCT is also helpful in resetting the HPTA, which is enormously important to your health as a whole, steroids are signalers for the body to produce more muscle, they dont supply anything to actually make muscle, they just tell your body to do so.
For all intensive purposes they run the body HARDER than it was intended to function.
You are essentially red-lining your body when you use steroids.
All your organs take a beating, not just the liver, although if using orals it takes the most direct beating.
Even if the muscles can take it, the organs can only run at such a setpoint for so long before they begin to overstress.
The PCT goes a long way towards recovery from this damage, without one the body will still recover, but will take longer to do so.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
Brook wrote:
A genuine question WC, how can the HPTA and related hormones we are interested in affect the recovery/restoration of the liver?
B
Estrogen is quite important to your overall body, you actually need a certain amount of it to move I believe.
Now I do know for a fact that a lack of estrogen in the system can impair liver function, and that if the liver is damaged, a lack of estrogen can significantly extend the time needed to repair that damage.
I also know that my liver values by bloodwork are usually pretty bad as I finish the 4-5 week of orals, and that they don’t recover significantly till I get to the PCT.
SERM’s are active estrogens in the liver, and can rapidly rebound liver values and assist in regeneration.
I do know that in several studies, Nolva has been shown to improve liver values over base line fairly significantly, after all your GREATLY increasing the amount of estrogen in your body, even if its only active at certain receptors, its active in the liver, and your liver doesn’t know the difference.
Now I cant find any specific studies that have given SERMs to male bodybuilders at high doses post cycle, with mild liver damage, but I think its pretty safe to assume from simple logic, and my bloodwork, that SERMs are highly beneficial to our liver values.
The HPTA is responsible for estrogen production, indirectly, and even if estrogen levels are relatively normal, rapid fluctuations in the hormone levels is likely rough on the body.
Weve all seen evidence of this, hairloss, moodiness, etc.
The PCT is also helpful in resetting the HPTA, which is enormously important to your health as a whole, steroids are signalers for the body to produce more muscle, they dont supply anything to actually make muscle, they just tell your body to do so.
For all intensive purposes they run the body HARDER than it was intended to function.
You are essentially red-lining your body when you use steroids.
All your organs take a beating, not just the liver, although if using orals it takes the most direct beating.
Even if the muscles can take it, the organs can only run at such a setpoint for so long before they begin to overstress.
The PCT goes a long way towards recovery from this damage, without one the body will still recover, but will take longer to do so.[/quote]
Interesting post. Thanks
Yes…good post. Bump
Sorry… I might be hijacking here but, would AI’s then have a negative impact on liver values…other than I’d guess the obvious impact of having to make them pass through the liver once to begin with.