High School is Useless

TheBodyGuard · May 1, 2011, 8:37pm

[quote]clip11 wrote:

In my opinion they should use elementary school thru middle school to teach you reading, writing, and arithmatic and maybe a few of those useless facts they think is so important. The kids, at that point, who may likely be college material, can be steered more towards academics. The kids that aren’t college material can spend their high school years learning a skilled trade or two or learning how to be an entrepreneur, you know, stuff that can actually put money in your pocket.
[/quote]

Uh…they do this already. One is called high school, and the other vocational school. Have you been living in a cave in Afghanistan or do you live in Michigan or something?

TheBodyGuard · May 1, 2011, 8:51pm

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
I dropped out at 16 and went on to get a math degree without ever getting my high school diploma. It’s not necessary IMO but a lot of people I know say they couldn’t have gotten through their first year at college without it. I don’t necessarily agree but we all have different needs. YMMV. I had to study a bit harder in first year though to pick up what I missed. [/quote]

I think the academic part is only half of why it’s so important. Developing as a person is also a huge part of high-school. Interacting with others, performing under pressure, working within time restraints, and working on subjects that you might not love among other things, are extremely important to YOUR development.

Developing interpersonal skills and the ability to understand, interact, and work with other people is also extremely important.

[/quote]

I agree that those things are important but I’m not convinced high school is the place to gain them. It’s a contrived, controlled setting that doesn’t transfer well into the real world IMO. Not that I can say too much since I didn’t complete it, but high school social dynamics are not at all like real world social dynamics. For example, being popular in the real world doesn’t actually buy you anything if you’re incompetent and if you lack social skills getting stuffed into a locker is not going to improve them IMO.[/quote]

The above is completely untrue.

“Being popular” as you put it, means almost everything in Corporate America. I have seen it over a 20 year span in real life. The promotions rarely go to the best qualified or best performer - they go to those that are well-liked, regarded or connected within a company or network. That IS how the “real world operates”. “Being popular” is a skill. In adulthood, that skill may differ from what makes a kid in high school popular, but the basic social elements are still there. You can be a star athlete, but an asshole, and not be popular at all in high school. The social dynamic is still there and it’s an important one unless you’re an island. No one effectively networks without being is some shape or form, “popular” or well regarded. The best opportunities are not those that you blindly apply for or stumble upon, but those that you have an inside track for because of “who you know”. I’m assuming you have in your career, whatever that is, learned to work around what you dismiss above, but to correlate whatever relative success you enjoy to the point that you dismiss the obvious advantages of being well-liked and regarded in business is just erroneous. And I’m guessing you weren’t popular in high school? Is that correct?

debraD · May 1, 2011, 9:19pm

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
I dropped out at 16 and went on to get a math degree without ever getting my high school diploma. It’s not necessary IMO but a lot of people I know say they couldn’t have gotten through their first year at college without it. I don’t necessarily agree but we all have different needs. YMMV. I had to study a bit harder in first year though to pick up what I missed. [/quote]

I think the academic part is only half of why it’s so important. Developing as a person is also a huge part of high-school. Interacting with others, performing under pressure, working within time restraints, and working on subjects that you might not love among other things, are extremely important to YOUR development.

Developing interpersonal skills and the ability to understand, interact, and work with other people is also extremely important.

[/quote]

I agree that those things are important but I’m not convinced high school is the place to gain them. It’s a contrived, controlled setting that doesn’t transfer well into the real world IMO. Not that I can say too much since I didn’t complete it, but high school social dynamics are not at all like real world social dynamics. For example, being popular in the real world doesn’t actually buy you anything if you’re incompetent and if you lack social skills getting stuffed into a locker is not going to improve them IMO.[/quote]

The above is completely untrue.

“Being popular” as you put it, means almost everything in Corporate America. I have seen it over a 20 year span in real life. The promotions rarely go to the best qualified or best performer - they go to those that are well-liked, regarded or connected within a company or network. That IS how the “real world operates”. “Being popular” is a skill. In adulthood, that skill may differ from what makes a kid in high school popular, but the basic social elements are still there. You can be a star athlete, but an asshole, and not be popular at all in high school. The social dynamic is still there and it’s an important one unless you’re an island. No one effectively networks without being is some shape or form, “popular” or well regarded. The best opportunities are not those that you blindly apply for or stumble upon, but those that you have an inside track for because of “who you know”. I’m assuming you have in your career, whatever that is, learned to work around what you dismiss above, but to correlate whatever relative success you enjoy to the point that you dismiss the obvious advantages of being well-liked and regarded in business is just erroneous. And I’m guessing you weren’t popular in high school? Is that correct?[/quote]

I was very popular in high school actually and I am quite successful (at least to my satisfaction), in the corporate world. How about you? I’m not so sure you have a lot of corporate experience to qualify your arguments.

Being well regarded in high school is not even on the same level as being well liked in the business world. I was popular in high school because I was cute. That will not get you far in the real world, unless you are in the entertainment business.

Brother_Chris · May 1, 2011, 9:58pm

Maybe because knowing Shakespeare is useful, because it influences our culture. And, making money isn’t the first priority.

batman730 · May 1, 2011, 10:39pm

I can’t speak as to what makes one “popular” in corporate culture, however in my experience adult group dynamics and social interactions are very similar to those in HS, albeit somewhat more sophisticated on the surface. As much as we like to believe that we are so far beyond the pettiness and frivolity of HS, actually it
doesn’t really change that much IMO. We are not really as mature and enlightened as we like to believe, for the most part. Many if not most people are emotionally stunted to varying degrees, even in highly educated, successful professional circles so HS social rules still apply in basic principle, just with a few refinements.

With regards to appearance, and how far being “cute” can get you: we still form our first impressions of people within seconds of meeting them and physical appearance is a big factor in that process and first impressions have a huge impact on success. Science shows that more attractive people tend to earn more (over 10% or so) than less attractive people, so for better or for worse it still counts. Stupid but true.

BTW Deb, we think you’re still cute but it’s not why we like you.

jskrabac · May 1, 2011, 10:47pm

God damn this is retarded. It’s like saying, why should a pro running back ever deadlift, since he never actually performs any motions even resembling one during a game. Deadlifting can condition the body to be speedier. Same thing for education. You are conditioning your brain to think critically and learn how to analyze things. Do employers give a shit if you know the presidents or can recite a poem by T.S. Elliot. Hell no. But they hire those who can learn quickly, think analytically, make informed decisions, etc. etc. How quickly you retain new information, how quickly you can apply it, how well you can analyze with it…these are important in any well-paying job…you really think you could get there without high school?

jskrabac · May 1, 2011, 10:50pm

[quote]debraD wrote:
I dropped out at 16 and went on to get a math degree without ever getting my high school diploma. It’s not necessary IMO but a lot of people I know say they couldn’t have gotten through their first year at college without it. I don’t necessarily agree but we all have different needs. YMMV. I had to study a bit harder in first year though to pick up what I missed. [/quote]

So you’re as nerdy as you are sexy?

clip11 · May 1, 2011, 11:20pm

[quote]kman3b18 wrote:
lol @ OP. I guess my AP chem, AP calculus, AP physics and AP stats courses in hs were completely useless and taught me nothing. I’m only about to graduate with a chemical engineering degree.

[/quote]

Well, in your case it had something to do with you making a living. So for you, it wasnt useless per se, but you’re one person.

clip11 · May 1, 2011, 11:25pm

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
I dropped out at 16 and went on to get a math degree without ever getting my high school diploma. It’s not necessary IMO but a lot of people I know say they couldn’t have gotten through their first year at college without it. I don’t necessarily agree but we all have different needs. YMMV. I had to study a bit harder in first year though to pick up what I missed. [/quote]

I think the academic part is only half of why it’s so important. Developing as a person is also a huge part of high-school. Interacting with others, performing under pressure, working within time restraints, and working on subjects that you might not love among other things, are extremely important to YOUR development.

Developing interpersonal skills and the ability to understand, interact, and work with other people is also extremely important.

[/quote]

I agree that those things are important but I’m not convinced high school is the place to gain them. It’s a contrived, controlled setting that doesn’t transfer well into the real world IMO. Not that I can say too much since I didn’t complete it, but high school social dynamics are not at all like real world social dynamics. For example, being popular in the real world doesn’t actually buy you anything if you’re incompetent and if you lack social skills getting stuffed into a locker is not going to improve them IMO.[/quote]

The above is completely untrue.

“Being popular” as you put it, means almost everything in Corporate America. I have seen it over a 20 year span in real life. The promotions rarely go to the best qualified or best performer - they go to those that are well-liked, regarded or connected within a company or network. That IS how the “real world operates”. “Being popular” is a skill. In adulthood, that skill may differ from what makes a kid in high school popular, but the basic social elements are still there. You can be a star athlete, but an asshole, and not be popular at all in high school. The social dynamic is still there and it’s an important one unless you’re an island. No one effectively networks without being is some shape or form, “popular” or well regarded. The best opportunities are not those that you blindly apply for or stumble upon, but those that you have an inside track for because of “who you know”. I’m assuming you have in your career, whatever that is, learned to work around what you dismiss above, but to correlate whatever relative success you enjoy to the point that you dismiss the obvious advantages of being well-liked and regarded in business is just erroneous. And I’m guessing you weren’t popular in high school? Is that correct?[/quote]

Where can I get a job being popular? In other words, where can I go and have my job description say “be popular” and get a check for it? If it’s so important, why dont high schools have classes on how to be popular. I dont have to go to high school to have social skills, in fact, that has nothing to do with the price of tea in china.

Someone can have a magnetic personality w/o ever having went to school at all!

clip11 · May 1, 2011, 11:27pm

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
God damn this is retarded. It’s like saying, why should a pro running back ever deadlift, since he never actually performs any motions even resembling one during a game. Deadlifting can condition the body to be speedier. Same thing for education. You are conditioning your brain to think critically and learn how to analyze things. Do employers give a shit if you know the presidents or can recite a poem by T.S. Elliot. Hell no. But they hire those who can learn quickly, think analytically, make informed decisions, etc. etc. How quickly you retain new information, how quickly you can apply it, how well you can analyze with it…these are important in any well-paying job…you really think you could get there without high school?

[/quote]

You can do that on your own. I actually learn more surfing the internet than I ever learned in four years of high school.

SkyzykS · May 1, 2011, 11:46pm

[quote]clip11 wrote:
If it’s so important, why dont high schools have classes on how to be popular. I dont have to go to high school to have social skills, in fact, that has nothing to do with the price of tea in china.

Someone can have a magnetic personality w/o ever having went to school at all![/quote]

High school marketing and Deca programs.

That was our schools shiny happy people program that teaches kids how to present themselves as happy, outgoing, well adjusted- delusional freaks that will eventually drink themselves to death.

TheBodyGuard · May 2, 2011, 12:24am

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
I dropped out at 16 and went on to get a math degree without ever getting my high school diploma. It’s not necessary IMO but a lot of people I know say they couldn’t have gotten through their first year at college without it. I don’t necessarily agree but we all have different needs. YMMV. I had to study a bit harder in first year though to pick up what I missed. [/quote]

I think the academic part is only half of why it’s so important. Developing as a person is also a huge part of high-school. Interacting with others, performing under pressure, working within time restraints, and working on subjects that you might not love among other things, are extremely important to YOUR development.

Developing interpersonal skills and the ability to understand, interact, and work with other people is also extremely important.

[/quote]

I agree that those things are important but I’m not convinced high school is the place to gain them. It’s a contrived, controlled setting that doesn’t transfer well into the real world IMO. Not that I can say too much since I didn’t complete it, but high school social dynamics are not at all like real world social dynamics. For example, being popular in the real world doesn’t actually buy you anything if you’re incompetent and if you lack social skills getting stuffed into a locker is not going to improve them IMO.[/quote]

The above is completely untrue.

“Being popular” as you put it, means almost everything in Corporate America. I have seen it over a 20 year span in real life. The promotions rarely go to the best qualified or best performer - they go to those that are well-liked, regarded or connected within a company or network. That IS how the “real world operates”. “Being popular” is a skill. In adulthood, that skill may differ from what makes a kid in high school popular, but the basic social elements are still there. You can be a star athlete, but an asshole, and not be popular at all in high school. The social dynamic is still there and it’s an important one unless you’re an island. No one effectively networks without being is some shape or form, “popular” or well regarded. The best opportunities are not those that you blindly apply for or stumble upon, but those that you have an inside track for because of “who you know”. I’m assuming you have in your career, whatever that is, learned to work around what you dismiss above, but to correlate whatever relative success you enjoy to the point that you dismiss the obvious advantages of being well-liked and regarded in business is just erroneous. And I’m guessing you weren’t popular in high school? Is that correct?[/quote]

I was very popular in high school actually and I am quite successful (at least to my satisfaction), in the corporate world. How about you? I’m not so sure you have a lot of corporate experience to qualify your arguments.

Being well regarded in high school is not even on the same level as being well liked in the business world. I was popular in high school because I was cute. That will not get you far in the real world, unless you are in the entertainment business.
[/quote]

I have 22 years of complex insurance claims litigation experience. Was former Director of Litigation for a major medical malpractice insurer. Served every claim position from senior analyst, to Supervisor, Manager and Home Office Director. Directly settled claims regularly in excess of $10mil. Daily contact with judges, lawyers, doctors, senior management, agents and subordinates for 22 years. You’re not so sure I have corporate experience?

Do you have reading comprehension? Or did you drop out prior to getting that in high school? I didn’t say it was “the same level”. I said the skills are the same. You’re cute? I recall in a prior post you describing yourself as plain (your words) and that you were unlikely to be noticed walking down the street. Are you moving the goal post now?

If you can’t see plainly that social skills matter in corporate america, you do not work in a corporate environment or, you’re blind. The promotions do NOT go to the best technician all the time…the go to highly regarded, connected and those that are “liked” by upper management. FACT.

TheBodyGuard · May 2, 2011, 12:29am

[quote]batman730 wrote:
I can’t speak as to what makes one “popular” in corporate culture, however in my experience adult group dynamics and social interactions are very similar to those in HS, albeit somewhat more sophisticated on the surface. As much as we like to believe that we are so far beyond the pettiness and frivolity of HS, actually it
doesn’t really change that much IMO. We are not really as mature and enlightened as we like to believe, for the most part. Many if not most people are emotionally stunted to varying degrees, even in highly educated, successful professional circles so HS social rules still apply in basic principle, just with a few refinements.

With regards to appearance, and how far being “cute” can get you: we still form our first impressions of people within seconds of meeting them and physical appearance is a big factor in that process and first impressions have a huge impact on success. Science shows that more attractive people tend to earn more (over 10% or so) than less attractive people, so for better or for worse it still counts. Stupid but true.

[/quote]

signs of fucking intelligent life above…

People do NOT change as much as you think from high school. If you are still in contact with anyone from high school in any significant way, you’d understand this clear fact. Pettiness and cliques abound in the corporate world - and it’s not limited to the underlings. Some of you would be shocked by how “upper management” speaks of underlings and contemporaries alike. Whether someone above you “likes” you or not is a deal breaker for your career at that company. Period. End of story. If you believe otherwise, you’re delusional and/or happy with a senior technical position or lower management. You will NEVER ascend higher without someone “liking” you or otherwise being popular. One of the key decisions to promote someone is how the interact with peers, subordinates and superiors. Anyone can be technically proficient with dedication and a pulse. However, not everyone can lead. And not everyone is likable.

TheBodyGuard · May 2, 2011, 12:32am

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
I dropped out at 16 and went on to get a math degree without ever getting my high school diploma. It’s not necessary IMO but a lot of people I know say they couldn’t have gotten through their first year at college without it. I don’t necessarily agree but we all have different needs. YMMV. I had to study a bit harder in first year though to pick up what I missed. [/quote]

I think the academic part is only half of why it’s so important. Developing as a person is also a huge part of high-school. Interacting with others, performing under pressure, working within time restraints, and working on subjects that you might not love among other things, are extremely important to YOUR development.

Developing interpersonal skills and the ability to understand, interact, and work with other people is also extremely important.

[/quote]

I agree that those things are important but I’m not convinced high school is the place to gain them. It’s a contrived, controlled setting that doesn’t transfer well into the real world IMO. Not that I can say too much since I didn’t complete it, but high school social dynamics are not at all like real world social dynamics. For example, being popular in the real world doesn’t actually buy you anything if you’re incompetent and if you lack social skills getting stuffed into a locker is not going to improve them IMO.[/quote]

The above is completely untrue.

“Being popular” as you put it, means almost everything in Corporate America. I have seen it over a 20 year span in real life. The promotions rarely go to the best qualified or best performer - they go to those that are well-liked, regarded or connected within a company or network. That IS how the “real world operates”. “Being popular” is a skill. In adulthood, that skill may differ from what makes a kid in high school popular, but the basic social elements are still there. You can be a star athlete, but an asshole, and not be popular at all in high school. The social dynamic is still there and it’s an important one unless you’re an island. No one effectively networks without being is some shape or form, “popular” or well regarded. The best opportunities are not those that you blindly apply for or stumble upon, but those that you have an inside track for because of “who you know”. I’m assuming you have in your career, whatever that is, learned to work around what you dismiss above, but to correlate whatever relative success you enjoy to the point that you dismiss the obvious advantages of being well-liked and regarded in business is just erroneous. And I’m guessing you weren’t popular in high school? Is that correct?[/quote]

Where can I get a job being popular? In other words, where can I go and have my job description say “be popular” and get a check for it? If it’s so important, why dont high schools have classes on how to be popular. I dont have to go to high school to have social skills, in fact, that has nothing to do with the price of tea in china.

Someone can have a magnetic personality w/o ever having went to school at all![/quote]

Well, there are plenty of jobs you can’t get without basic reading comprehension. You either have poor reading comprehension or, you are prone to fallacious argument constructs like strawmen. If it wasn’t clear in my post (because the CONTEXT is obvious), I was speaking about being likable or “popular” at the JOB YOU HAVE if you expect to advance. And furthermore, don’t think for one minute that if you’re not likable during your interview, that you’re getting the job in a competitive market. Well, maybe if the jobs you strive for involve a uniform with a name tag, you might slip through, but I’m talking the corporate world - not pumping gas or changing oil.

debraD · May 2, 2011, 12:53am

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
I dropped out at 16 and went on to get a math degree without ever getting my high school diploma. It’s not necessary IMO but a lot of people I know say they couldn’t have gotten through their first year at college without it. I don’t necessarily agree but we all have different needs. YMMV. I had to study a bit harder in first year though to pick up what I missed. [/quote]

I think the academic part is only half of why it’s so important. Developing as a person is also a huge part of high-school. Interacting with others, performing under pressure, working within time restraints, and working on subjects that you might not love among other things, are extremely important to YOUR development.

Developing interpersonal skills and the ability to understand, interact, and work with other people is also extremely important.

[/quote]

I agree that those things are important but I’m not convinced high school is the place to gain them. It’s a contrived, controlled setting that doesn’t transfer well into the real world IMO. Not that I can say too much since I didn’t complete it, but high school social dynamics are not at all like real world social dynamics. For example, being popular in the real world doesn’t actually buy you anything if you’re incompetent and if you lack social skills getting stuffed into a locker is not going to improve them IMO.[/quote]

The above is completely untrue.

“Being popular” as you put it, means almost everything in Corporate America. I have seen it over a 20 year span in real life. The promotions rarely go to the best qualified or best performer - they go to those that are well-liked, regarded or connected within a company or network. That IS how the “real world operates”. “Being popular” is a skill. In adulthood, that skill may differ from what makes a kid in high school popular, but the basic social elements are still there. You can be a star athlete, but an asshole, and not be popular at all in high school. The social dynamic is still there and it’s an important one unless you’re an island. No one effectively networks without being is some shape or form, “popular” or well regarded. The best opportunities are not those that you blindly apply for or stumble upon, but those that you have an inside track for because of “who you know”. I’m assuming you have in your career, whatever that is, learned to work around what you dismiss above, but to correlate whatever relative success you enjoy to the point that you dismiss the obvious advantages of being well-liked and regarded in business is just erroneous. And I’m guessing you weren’t popular in high school? Is that correct?[/quote]

I was very popular in high school actually and I am quite successful (at least to my satisfaction), in the corporate world. How about you? I’m not so sure you have a lot of corporate experience to qualify your arguments.

Being well regarded in high school is not even on the same level as being well liked in the business world. I was popular in high school because I was cute. That will not get you far in the real world, unless you are in the entertainment business.
[/quote]

I have 22 years of complex insurance claims litigation experience. Was former Director of Litigation for a major medical malpractice insurer. Served every claim position from senior analyst, to Supervisor, Manager and Home Office Director. Directly settled claims regularly in excess of $10mil. Daily contact with judges, lawyers, doctors, senior management, agents and subordinates for 22 years. You’re not so sure I have corporate experience?

Do you have reading comprehension? Or did you drop out prior to getting that in high school? I didn’t say it was “the same level”. I said the skills are the same. You’re cute? I recall in a prior post you describing yourself as plain (your words) and that you were unlikely to be noticed walking down the street. Are you moving the goal post now?

If you can’t see plainly that social skills matter in corporate america, you do not work in a corporate environment or, you’re blind. The promotions do NOT go to the best technician all the time…the go to highly regarded, connected and those that are “liked” by upper management. FACT.[/quote]

LOL speaking of fucking reading comprehension smart guy–show me where anyone said social skills do not matter. If you go back a read what I fucking wrote, an academic such as yourself should have no problem finding that I stated that high school is not necessarily the best place to learn it. You got an “F”.

It’s pretty fucking weird that you remember that I wrote that but, whatever. It’s just plain stupid however to think being cute in high school, over 20 fucking years ago somehow is a contradiction to however I describe my appearance today.

But really you demonstrate the social grace of a fucking sledgehammer so I’m not sure why I’m even debating this with you. In fact I’m not

TheBodyGuard · May 2, 2011, 1:03am