You may be surprised that I subscribed to your YouTube channel months ago and still watch (Is my dose too high?) and believe you have add value and good advice is some key areas, but I do find you overzealous and push high estrogen is good for you and of no consequence and we will always disagree.
I will leave it at that.
Show me the evidence that it causes harm at any level. There is no evidence. Just like there is no evidence in pixies, or unicorns, or the big flying poopie monster. If you want to fear something for no good reason, by all means. There are countless men who quit their AI and now feel better. I get ten a day, at least, in my emails. It’s in the thousands now. If you want to be afraid of the big flying poopie monster, that’s fine, but don’t tell other people that they need to be.
Yes your high e2 is a big problem, get it fixed. If nothing else, it will stop you from having high e2 rage, which one particular guy is having in every other thread. Kinda hilarious to watch tho.
Man, sometimes you’re priceless. So, you go back and change your post, after the fact? You put it out there, own it.
First, in case you can’t comprehend well, she is not a lab tech (you did this previously). She is a PhD and she heads up research projects for Pfizer. It seems to me she is an expert when it comes to this subject. That is why I sought her out for information. I read your ongoing crap here calling doctors idiots, incompetent, in over their head, blah, blah, because they order the “wrong” test, the test “for women” and thought I would look into it myself. It did not seem YOU were an expert on lab testing and your off the charts hatred for doctors makes me question whether you have any objectivity whatsoever. So, rather than take your word for it, I went directly to professional people who actually do this for a living.
All I am doing is reporting what they told me, in person, and, I credit them as the source of the information. How does that lead you to believe I think I am the expert?
By the way, it was a lengthy discussion, not “a few words”.
If you think they are wrong, fine, you get to do that. However, I am going to take their word on this over yours. Sorry.
Danny is raging in fact and showing zero patience very often, but trust me its not his hormones causing this.
To the author: Your free t is not high at all, neither your total t. I started trt with 100ng/dl lower total t.
I will consider what a doctor or anyone telling me in sharing knowledge, but I research it to see if it is actually true, I’m not going to bite down on the lure without first verifying if in fact they are correct. I don’t take the path of least resistance, it’s for the lazy or those who don’t have time to verify facts.
We can agree that both testing methods have their advantages and disadvantages, but I have a problem with the ranges.
Lean protein, brown rice, potatoes, fruits, veggies. I.E, very healthy and clean.
I take zinc, magnesium glynicate, b-12, d3, and fish oil daily. I have for years.
I have not tried increasing the dose as this dose has always worked for me. The few times I did go higher, I got that crazy bad headache people talk about.
So it sounds like there are two sides here.
High Estrogen does cause issues.
High Estrogen does not cause issues.
I’m low on the T:E ratio theory. However, wouldn’t increasing my T increase my E2? If the E2 rises and the ratio doesn’t change…is this when you would use a A.I if im still symptomatic despite higher TT?
I recently saw a flat earth documentary on netflix. The people portayed in thismovieare motivated by a strong disbelieve in science and experts and wanted to find the truth on their own. These ‘scientists’ did a basic experiment using laser light, three gates and boats on a big lake to disproof the curvature of the earth. Surprisingly the distance between the surface of the lake and the laser light wasnt constant so the laser light didnt go trough the last gate but hit the last measuring device 1m or so above the gate. Their conclusion: their experimental setup was wrong and the outcome by no means demonstrates the curvature of the earth. They will think of a different experiment which will finally demonstrate that the earth is flat and that the scientists are wrong.
It makes my head hurt. I truly don’t understand how anyone can believe the whole flat earth thing. Yet, here we are
My thoughts exactly, which is why I spoke with the two doctors referenced, plus a few more TRT doctors who use immunoassay testing.
Fair enough.
When this nauseating E2 debate keeps popping up, why isnt the prostate cancer issue discussed? Earlier models of thought were that prostate cancer was androgen mediated. The latest evidence seems to suggest that its estrogen related.
‘Animal models of prostate cancer have demonstrated that, at least in rats, estrogen is a necessary, if not sufficient, condition for prostate carcinogenesis. Although rats do not naturally develop prostate cancer, it can be induced in Noble rats by combined treatment with estradiol and testosterone, with testosterone playing a supportive role since androgen supplementation alone is insufficient to drive carcinogenesis. A recent review by Bosland reinforced this notion, citing an incidence of prostate cancer induction in Noble rats of 100% with testosterone and estrogen, but only 40% with testosterone alone. Dihydrotestosterone, which is not aromatized to estrogen as testosterone is, could induce cancer in only 4%.’
This is a study on rats. When testosterone is given to men with prostate cancer, which raises their estrogen, they improve. So, unfortunately, no… This study holds no water.
The evidence is out there in the human species. Its correlative but Time will Tell. Id be wary of wearing ‘E2 over the range’ as some badge of honor. Taking a man with low T and low E and elevating to normal levels may have a theraputic effect. But at some point the threshold out of theraputic is crossed. Your stance, which is irresponsible, is that it should be of no concern. Shoot for the Free T numbers that produce ‘the best feeling’ and forget about E2? You may feel fine now but nobody knows the potential pitfalls.
why was a range produced if there is no high limit?
The argument has never been if TRT is safe for the prostate. 100% it is. In all of these studies they focus on men with low T returning to physiological levels. The discussion is based on where does the line get crossed? In none of those studies does it say ‘we followed a cohort of men with Free T over the range and E2 at some multiple of the range and determined that it had no effect on prostatic outcomes’. Its irresponsible to preach as gospel that the goal of TRT should be to maximize Free T to best effect and ignore E2. End of story. There is no argument against that other than that you are willing to risk unknown future consequences for present day thrill.
I had basically the same numbers as you (600 T 48 E) and TRT has had a positive impact on just about every aspect of my life. Even things that I didn’t know weren’t great. Some folks use TRT to get the numbers I had pre-trt to feel great. Everyone is different and needs different things. To me being on TRT is akin to someone that has amazing genetics for a sport. It gives you an advantage over average men mentally, physically and sexually.
You wouldn’t walk into a gym and ask the 150 lb guy how to be a bodybuilder so before taking someone’s advice make sure they have their shit together and are where you want to be.
Sorry, I was just providing some studies that I thought you’d find interesting. I didn’t mean to come across as irresponsible.
By the way, I know a guy who treats prostate cancer with…………high dose testosterone and high dose estradiol, 8mg per day by mouth. I saw the labs. PSA dropped from 10 to 0.
Haha. ‘ I know a guy’.