High Creatine Levels Did This?

Off Topic
81

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]kakno wrote:
I’ve seen the term compartment syndrome used pretty freely. As in if someone has really sore calves. Apparently that doesn’t really fit the bill, but we know how journalists can blow up things without checking if it’s true. So maybe this actually just means that their triceps are really fucking sore and that they got dehydrated and nauseated.

Still think it’s teh creatinez though. If you don’t put it in your socks, shit will happen.[/quote]

Let me just say a couple things here. First, this thread is why I’m happy I’m on this site after all these years- because there’s guys on here with more knowledge than what’s being thrown out there in the comments.

However, let me defend my journalist brethren for a second and say that when you’re a reporter, you’re expected to report on all sorts of shit, running the gamut from stuff on nature and science to things like books and literature- regardless of whether you know about them at all or not.

You’re forced to be a “jack of all trades” and know just enough that you can write the bare essentials of the story out and not lose the ADD prone readers’ (your) attention.

So give them a break if they’re not exactly right on what all this shit does- the odds are is they only know what the cops on the scene and the doctors at the hospital told them, and they have neither the time nor the resources to check it out with every weightlifter in the gym or every creatine user.

/end rant

[/quote]

So, you’re defending shitty reporting? Oh, whoa is you! What about ESPN, tv OR print media?

It’s been a week or so-- where are the follow ups? Certainly by now those poor, poor overworked, underinformed journalists have had time to contact some other resources to get things right. No?

82

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]kakno wrote:
I’ve seen the term compartment syndrome used pretty freely. As in if someone has really sore calves. Apparently that doesn’t really fit the bill, but we know how journalists can blow up things without checking if it’s true. So maybe this actually just means that their triceps are really fucking sore and that they got dehydrated and nauseated.

Still think it’s teh creatinez though. If you don’t put it in your socks, shit will happen.[/quote]

Let me just say a couple things here. First, this thread is why I’m happy I’m on this site after all these years- because there’s guys on here with more knowledge than what’s being thrown out there in the comments.

However, let me defend my journalist brethren for a second and say that when you’re a reporter, you’re expected to report on all sorts of shit, running the gamut from stuff on nature and science to things like books and literature- regardless of whether you know about them at all or not.

You’re forced to be a “jack of all trades” and know just enough that you can write the bare essentials of the story out and not lose the ADD prone readers’ (your) attention.

So give them a break if they’re not exactly right on what all this shit does- the odds are is they only know what the cops on the scene and the doctors at the hospital told them, and they have neither the time nor the resources to check it out with every weightlifter in the gym or every creatine user.

/end rant

[/quote]

So, you’re defending shitty reporting? Oh, whoa is you! What about ESPN, tv OR print media with seemingly infinite resources?

Journalism is all about reporting ‘facts’ and ‘truth’, no?

It’s been a week or so-- where are the follow ups? Certainly by now those poor, poor overworked, underinformed journalists have had time to contact some other resources to get things right. No?[/quote]

Agreed. The next time I get a traffic ticket, I can just claim I didn’t know about the laws. That should get me off, right?

It is the RESPONSIBILITY of journalists to do in depth reporting and not simply give some hackneyed overview from their own creativity.

I mean, if people can no longer rely on the news to give real news, then there should be a disclaimer above every story reading: “The following may not be true at all so read this story at your own risk of truth”.

83

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

So, you’re defending shitty reporting? Oh, whoa is you! What about ESPN, tv OR print media?

It’s been a week or so-- where are the follow ups? Certainly by now those poor, poor overworked, underinformed journalists have had time to contact some other resources to get things right. No?[/quote]

I said it before- I’m defending only the print media writing the hard news articles about this.

I’m saying- who the fuck are they going to call? If the doctors and the cops are giving them this kind of information, who’s going to give the other side? The supplement companies? Are they going to have a “man in the weightroom” for a week or so to give the average meathead’s opinion on it (which isn’t going to be educated either)?

This place is ahead of the curve- there’s a lot of people out there that still trust the government’s direction as to how to eat, and a lot of doctors that aren’t up to speed either.

I’m just wondering how the media is supposed to be omnicient on this one issue that really doesn’t come up that often. It’s not like we’re talking budgets or abortion here.

And I don’t defend the sensationalizing- TV definitely pulls that shit all the time. The papers are less prone to it, and as I said, if you watch only TV news you deserve what you get.

84

[quote]Professor X wrote:

It is the RESPONSIBILITY of journalists to do in depth reporting and not simply give some hackneyed overview from their own creativity.
[/quote]

No, it its NOT. The days of indepth reporting, at least in newspapers, are gone, because none of you fuckin ADD motherfuckers want to read a story longer than 10 inches anymore, and there’s not often enough people left to be able to do “in-depth” work. If you write for a daily, an overview is literally all that is allowed to be printed unless you were put on some special assignment.

As I said, I hold TV to a different standard, because there’s way more of them and they have WAY more resources available.

85

Let me stay right on topic here- I understand what you guys are saying and sympahtize with it (as someone who lifts and takes supplements). But the “supplements are evil” thing is societal. It’s not the media creating it and scaring the sheep- the media plays a part in it, but so does the government.

Why don’t these stories have any quotes from someone from the FDA or the AMA or Harvard school of Medicine saying that creatine just doesn’t do this kind of thing, and the blame HAS to be placed elsewhere?

Because no one said it. So that being said, what is the media supposed to do? Who do you call for the opposite perspective? Even calling a supplement company wouldn’t work, because they’d give a statement that would be dismissed as “CYA”, when in fact it could be more truthful than what the gov’t said.

So if everyone is telling you how bad the shit is, or at least that its not good for you, what’s an average reporter to think, and what are they supposed to write, when they’ve got no personal experience with it?

That’s just my take.

86

@FightingIrish

I agree with you that reporters may not be overwhelmed with credible sources, and are in a bind due to economics, but I don’t believe they are entirely blameless either. They utilize the triggers of “SEX” and “DANGER” because it grabs peoples attention and thus brings in more $$.

You know that a story can be written to emphasize some elements over others. The espn article is an example of that. They could have easily slipped the supplement aspect into the background, but chose not too. If you hear that someone went to the hospital because of intense exercise in extreme heat, you don’t worry that it will happen to you. But if you suggest that an once thought innocuous supplement may have been the cause it will make you wonder for at least a second.

This is in part the fault of society. As you said, the general public does not seem to value in depth reporting anymore and are generally very ignorant. They also shit their collective pants every time anything may danger children, whether they have any or not.

At the end of the day though, I have to blame the reporters. I don’t let salespeople slide on peddling shit or questionable tactics just because they have to sell to make a living and those tactics are effective.

87

[quote]fraggle wrote:
@FightingIrish

I agree with you that reporters may not be overwhelmed with credible sources, and are in a bind due to economics, but I don’t believe they are entirely blameless either. They utilize the triggers of “SEX” and “DANGER” because it grabs peoples attention and thus brings in more $$.

You know that a story can be written to emphasize some elements over others. The espn article is an example of that. They could have easily slipped the supplement aspect into the background, but chose not too. If you hear that someone went to the hospital because of intense exercise in extreme heat, you don’t worry that it will happen to you. But if you suggest that an once thought innocuous supplement may have been the cause it will make you wonder for at least a second.

This is in part the fault of society. As you said, the general public does not seem to value in depth reporting anymore and are generally very ignorant. They also shit their collective pants every time anything may danger children, whether they have any or not.

At the end of the day though, I have to blame the reporters. I don’t let salespeople slide on peddling shit or questionable tactics just because they have to sell to make a living and those tactics are effective.[/quote]

Well that’s fine. So you say that there aren’t a lot of credible sources going the other way, but you still blame the reporters.

So at the end of the day, you’re wrong.

88

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
If I were in a movie, I would likely get cast as either a super villain or some idiot thug in the background…but I guess it is also my responsibility to act if someone passes out in front of me in a restaurant.[/quote]
[/quote]

89

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]Vicomte wrote:

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Some coaches have absolutely no idea what they’re doing. My nephew played football in highschool. He had some shoulder problems, and every time a particular drill caused him pain, the coach told him over and over “work through it”.

Well he did. After the season ended, he went to a doctor. I saw the x-ray and the damned shoulder looked like someone had put a piece of frayed rope in there. Even after surgery he still wasn’t able to use his shoulder normally.
I wanted to confront the coach, but he had retired.[/quote]

Did YOU retire the coach? Should have kicked his ass.

Man that sounds bad for your nephew :frowning: I can imagine he’s quite young too.[/quote]

To be fair, most of the time kids are just making excuses and being bitches, so coaches get used to telling them to ‘just suck it up, you sandy-vaginaed bitch’.

Of course, when someone actually does have a medical issue, it gets pretty fucked up.

Try telling your Gunnery Sergeant you’re allergic to cold, and that’s why you’re running so slow, because you can’t fucking breathe.

Sounds like bullshit, but I AM allergic to cold, and my fucking larynx was swelling, dammit.[/quote]

Hahaha, I can only imagine how well that went over…[/quote]

stony silence

‘SHUT THE FUCK UP.’

90

[quote]Professor X wrote:
These guys are football players. That aspect alone will bring out every jock-hating nerd on the planet with a keyboard.[/quote]

hahahaha ^^awesome

91

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

In my own neighborhood, I am quite certain that due to the facts that I don’t drive to a job everyday, am often seen in shorts and t-shirts, have long hair, and have an Obabma/Biden sticker on my truck’s bumper, that my neighbors view me as an unemployed, pot-smoking hippie.

lol
[/quote]

You friggin hippie! How many pots have you smoked!?!?

92

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]fraggle wrote:
@FightingIrish

I agree with you that reporters may not be overwhelmed with credible sources, and are in a bind due to economics, but I don’t believe they are entirely blameless either. They utilize the triggers of “SEX” and “DANGER” because it grabs peoples attention and thus brings in more $$.

You know that a story can be written to emphasize some elements over others. The espn article is an example of that. They could have easily slipped the supplement aspect into the background, but chose not too. If you hear that someone went to the hospital because of intense exercise in extreme heat, you don’t worry that it will happen to you. But if you suggest that an once thought innocuous supplement may have been the cause it will make you wonder for at least a second.

This is in part the fault of society. As you said, the general public does not seem to value in depth reporting anymore and are generally very ignorant. They also shit their collective pants every time anything may danger children, whether they have any or not.

At the end of the day though, I have to blame the reporters. I don’t let salespeople slide on peddling shit or questionable tactics just because they have to sell to make a living and those tactics are effective.[/quote]

Well that’s fine. So you say that there aren’t a lot of credible sources going the other way, but you still blame the reporters.

So at the end of the day, you’re wrong.[/quote]

I guess I wasn’t being very clear, let me try again.

There are not a lot of credible sources to counter the anti supplement crowd, but…

I don’t believe they have any real interest in looking for those sources because it doesn’t make people feel there is some kind of danger. In other words, If it bleeds, it leads, so lets make it bleed.

If they did have a counter source, is it that hard to believe they wouldn’t be selective in their use of quotes and the structure of the article to hook people?

Maybe it’s the reporters, or maybe it’s their editor, I don’t know. I do know that most articles I’ve read over the past 15 years have been written with an anti supplement slant.

If I remember correctly, didn’t TC complain about being heavily edited during some of his interviews with the popular media?

93

[quote]fraggle wrote:
I guess I wasn’t being very clear, let me try again.

There are not a lot of credible sources to counter the anti supplement crowd, but…

I don’t believe they have any real interest in looking for those sources because it doesn’t make people feel there is some kind of danger. In other words, If it bleeds, it leads, so lets make it bleed.
[/quote]

There’s plenty of tragedy to take the front page. The reporters I know have more integrity than to do this kind of thing.

[quote]
If they did have a counter source, is it that hard to believe they wouldn’t be selective in their use of quotes and the structure of the article to hook people?

Maybe it’s the reporters, or maybe it’s their editor, I don’t know. I do know that most articles I’ve read over the past 15 years have been written with an anti supplement slant.

If I remember correctly, didn’t TC complain about being heavily edited during some of his interviews with the popular media? [/quote]

Like I said- I completely understand and I agree that there’s an anti-supplement slant. I hate it myself- I think it’s funny as fuck (in a sad way) when people tell me that excess protein causes kidney problems when they’ve got no clue as to how much protein they take in, period; forget how much could feasibly qualify as “excessive.”

My point is that this is a culture-wide phenomenon that isn’t being started by the media so much as everyone is caught up in it. It would be MUCH easier to be objective when writing about this type of shit if you could get the friggin FDA to say, “Calm down, creatine doesn’t do this.”

But without that- who’s there to say it? And what effect will it have when our own governments are actively trying to ban supplements?

Believe me, I"m not on the other side of this issue. But I think that it’s the easy way out saying “Just blame the media” because you people do that for every other problem the country encounters without ever looking at who the media is trying to cater to- a bunch of overweight stupid slobs with a seventh grade education. AKA most of the US that doesn’t log onto this site or ones like it.

94

[quote]ESPN writes:

The first players brought to the hospital with severe triceps pain had elevated levels of the enzyme creatine kinase, or CK, which is released by muscles when they’re injured and is not to be confused with the creatine supplement.
[/quote]

Update as of 8PM, August 24th.

Nice clarification, solid reporting.

95

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]ESPN writes:

The first players brought to the hospital with severe triceps pain had elevated levels of the enzyme creatine kinase, or CK, which is released by muscles when they’re injured and is not to be confused with the creatine supplement.
[/quote]

Update as of 8PM, August 24th.

Nice clarification, solid reporting.[/quote]

The banner over this article was an ad for Myoplex protein drink. HaHaHaHa

96

This is the best article I’ve read on the subject, and oddly enough it came out Monday. Why are we not seeing this report in the MSM? This article does mention the doctor’s are still waiting on blood results, but every other article I read claimed the results would be available Tuesday or Wednesday at the latest. It’s Thursday and there has been no report on the blood tests. Gee, I wonder why that would be…


Dr. Craig Winkler, who treated seven of the affected players, said a workout at a preseason camp run by first-year coach Jeff Kearin on Aug. 15 probably triggered the uncommon soft-tissue condition, known as rhabdomyolysis, or its more serious counterpart, “compartment syndrome.”
…
Players, with bedding in tow, arrived at the “immersion camp” Aug. 15 at the high school and were soon run through a series of push-ups and “chair dips,” which work out the triceps.
…
Players told him “they were working out for more than 20 minutes in an enclosed room in 115-degree heat,” Winkler said. “That seems pretty intense to me. From a medical point of view, I would not allow anyone to exercise at temperatures over 100.” (Not sure I agree as a blanket statement, but that’s probably a good rule of thumb for high-school athletes)
…[i]
The players cycled through 30 seconds each of chair dips and push-ups, then repeated, decreasing the time of each cycle until they reached five-second intervals, then stopping to spot a partner. It was unclear how many times the cycle was repeated, although players said that by the end of the drill, which lasted longer than 20 minutes, their sweat had pooled into small puddles on the ground.

If a player wasn’t working hard enough, or was slacking off, everyone would have to reset and do the exercises again, Cordie said. Players got no water until after the workouts. No one was allowed to leave until everyone was done, he said.

The hardest-working 11 players in the program get to play, he said. “I was trying to prove to the coaches I can push myself to the max,” Cordie said. “I wanted to be one of the 11 on Friday night.”[/i]

There’s a lot of negative things I can say about my high school football experience, similar to those of Dwarf’s nephew,* but we never we’re deprived of water, and I have never bought into that regurgitated toughness arguement.

*Played with a broken fibula. I missed a whole quarter of a game because of it. No long term damage, but when I found out a year later (fractured it again at my ankle, got it x-rayed that time!) the doctor told me I was very lucky that I didn’t get hit there again and break it all the way through. Apparently it’s not good to play with a quarter-sized chunk of bone missing from your fibula. The trainer and coach told me at the time it was “just a bruise”.

97

[quote]tedro wrote:
This is the best article I’ve read on the subject, and oddly enough it came out Monday. Why are we not seeing this report in the MSM? This article does mention the doctor’s are still waiting on blood results, but every other article I read claimed the results would be available Tuesday or Wednesday at the latest. It’s Thursday and there has been no report on the blood tests. Gee, I wonder why that would be…


Dr. Craig Winkler, who treated seven of the affected players, said a workout at a preseason camp run by first-year coach Jeff Kearin on Aug. 15 probably triggered the uncommon soft-tissue condition, known as rhabdomyolysis, or its more serious counterpart, “compartment syndrome.”
…
Players, with bedding in tow, arrived at the “immersion camp” Aug. 15 at the high school and were soon run through a series of push-ups and “chair dips,” which work out the triceps.
…
Players told him “they were working out for more than 20 minutes in an enclosed room in 115-degree heat,” Winkler said. “That seems pretty intense to me. From a medical point of view, I would not allow anyone to exercise at temperatures over 100.” (Not sure I agree as a blanket statement, but that’s probably a good rule of thumb for high-school athletes)
…[i]
The players cycled through 30 seconds each of chair dips and push-ups, then repeated, decreasing the time of each cycle until they reached five-second intervals, then stopping to spot a partner. It was unclear how many times the cycle was repeated, although players said that by the end of the drill, which lasted longer than 20 minutes, their sweat had pooled into small puddles on the ground.

If a player wasn’t working hard enough, or was slacking off, everyone would have to reset and do the exercises again, Cordie said. Players got no water until after the workouts. No one was allowed to leave until everyone was done, he said.

The hardest-working 11 players in the program get to play, he said. “I was trying to prove to the coaches I can push myself to the max,” Cordie said. “I wanted to be one of the 11 on Friday night.”[/i]

There’s a lot of negative things I can say about my high school football experience, similar to those of Dwarf’s nephew,* but we never we’re deprived of water, and I have never bought into that regurgitated toughness arguement.

*Played with a broken fibula. I missed a whole quarter of a game because of it. No long term damage, but when I found out a year later (fractured it again at my ankle, got it x-rayed that time!) the doctor told me I was very lucky that I didn’t get hit there again and break it all the way through. Apparently it’s not good to play with a quarter-sized chunk of bone missing from your fibula. The trainer and coach told me at the time it was “just a bruise”.[/quote]

Awesome post. And great article.

98

Thanks for posting that, Tedro.

I wonder if that “coach” has been fired… or if any legal action is applicable.

99


McMinnville football parent: Blood test shows ‘my son hadn’t taken anything’

and
http://opbnews.org/article/11871-blood-test-results-mcminnville-players-coming-back/

Several families have stepped forward to say the results are clean.

I must say, this news is just shocking.

100

[quote]tedro wrote:


McMinnville football parent: Blood test shows ‘my son hadn’t taken anything’

and
http://opbnews.org/article/11871-blood-test-results-mcminnville-players-coming-back/

Several families have stepped forward to say the results are clean.

I must say, this news is just shocking.[/quote]

“Then it’s a matter of whether the environment set it all up, or if it was just a fluke thing. We have no idea.”

Just a fluke? are you fucking kidding me?