Hidden Damage of Psychiatric Drugs

Off Topic
61

we just opened a new office, and i am working some days 14-15 hours, so it will be a while before i get to read this. but it is on my list for sure.

i am interested to see the journals he references, and some long-term effects of the medications. he does mention some institutions that use a non-pharmaceutical treatment plan first.

"I came across the World Health Organizations outcomes study for schizophrenia patients, and found that outcomes were better for poor countries of the world – like India, Colombia, Nigeria – than for the rich countries. And I was startled to find that only a small percentage of patients in those countries were medicated. I also discovered that the number of people on disability for mental illness in this country has tripled over the last 20 years.

If our psychiatric drugs are effective at preventing mental illness, I thought, why are we getting so many people unable to work? I felt we needed to look at long-term outcomes and ask: What does the evidence show? Are we improving long-term outcomes or not?" (from the article)

and i am interested about this treatment facility in Finland:

“…Keropudas Hospitals program in Finland. They have 20 years of great results treating newly psychotic patients. They see if patients can get better without the use of meds, and if they cant, then they try them. Its a best-use model, not a no-use or anti-med model.”

i think that philosophy of “best-use” for a pharmaceutical model works best overall, generally, excluding emergencies. i think that so many people are a little too trigger-happy to swallow pills for short term relief, and i think thats why we have the pharma-related problems in this country. but at the same time, i know that psych problems are immense, and devastating for the pt and their families.

interestingly, if you look at the pharmaceutical-related deaths/injuries in the literature, there is a big difference between the US statistics and other countries (not talking about psych-drugs specifically). our overall quality of health is in the shitter comparatively. it’s a complex, multi-faceted issue, but to be sarcastic, americans scarf down everything in mass quantities, and just looove anything that has a flashy commercial.

good point: my gf says every day, that more and more of her patients come in and “tell her” what medications they are going to be prescribed from her. and they are sometimes adamant about it. she cannot fathom that there are pharma ads on tv in the US…

i am interested in this topic, bc my experience with pharma-related issues has not been psych-related, and thats why i posted and asked who had direct experience with these. i know of certain people who have had devastating experience with these, but i also know that my small sample size of experience is a case-by-case thing, and not necessarily representative of the whole matter.

62

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Rockscar and Kerley:

I have been on effexor consistently for 5 years (was on it also when I was 19 for 3 three years at 75mg) at 300 mg plus 200 of zoloft right now, I feel im ready to really get off of this once and for all, but what you guys have said about the side effects scare the holy hell out of me. From what I have heard and read effexor is one of the worst to get off of. I have been on em all under the sun (im exaggerating here) lets see…risperdal, prozac, effexor, zoloft, buspar, seroquel, welbutrin (I was happy to go on this because of the lack of sexual side effects but it landed me in the hospital) and depakote…yeah I think thats it.

I guess what im trying to say that I was desperate, I needed help, I needed to get better. Medication was necessary for me, as it may have been for kerley at that age ( i hope im not overstepping my bounds here). I never wanted to feel happy all the time I just wanted to feel normal…and some of these meds helped. Now that I am more learned I understand that the good that these meds do may not necessarily outweigh the good. Im stuck in a rock in a hard place. I guess its just getting started. We will see [/quote]

Hey I can’t tell you you are ready to come off. I just did it in late 2008 and it was a personal choice. I was going through a divorce, and dealing with infidelity, so the meds helped me at the time from going absolutely nuts and getting violent. I was on for about 2.5 years while trying to save a marriage, and being told I was depressed by the now X. After I was divorced and so glad I didn’t have to deal with her, I felt it was time to get off the drugs because I knew I needed to live like a normal human…like we have for thousands of years without whacked out dope like effexor.

I only knew about the sides because of a camping trip where I forgot to bring my meds. On day 4 I was seeing shit, and I had nerve rushes shooting from my brain stem to my toes and fingers. It was the first time I had to take drugs to make myself feel nornal. I did not feel human without the drug and that scared the shit out of me. It was the weirdest thing EVER. You cannot just stop cold or the sides are horrible. You need to taper off like this:

300mg per day for a week
150/pd week
100/pd week
75/pd week
75 every other day
75 once a week

You will still have sides but they will be less and less as you go. I don’t know what Zoloft is like, but it is a quck to act and quick to leave the body drug. Effexor builds up in the system over the course of time.

Talk to you doctor and make sure you don’t have any life issues that would cause you to get down on yourself.

Additionally, we all can choose to be in a shitty or good mood every day when we wake up. It’s too easy to have a shitty attitude, and I know I have a say in my own happiness and my own happiness is not dependant on any damn drugs.

Good luck!

None…

63

[quote]doogie wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
I might get shit for this, but I think it holds some truth. I dont have the source, but my father is a trauma therapist/addiction counselor, and apparently a lot of people with bi polar and other disorders also have huge drug/alcohol abuse problems, which, when they talk to a therapist/psychiatrist/whatever doc, hides their problem. I’ve also heard that someone who is bi polar has a hugely greater % of having addiction/alcohol problems. A lot of you seem to know your shit in regards to this topic, I was curious about thoughts on that. As in disorder-drug/alcohol abuse- over prescribed? I dont mean to say I think people with bi polar and other such disorders should not be prescribed medication, I firmly believe they should. Hope the above is clear enough.[/quote]

I’m bipolar. Before getting medicated I would drink until I staggered to bed every night. That is EVERY night. I was totally functional, though. Still got up at 5:30 and taught school at one of the best schools in the nation. When my wife finally confronted me about the drinking, I freaked out. The thought of not having it scared the piss out of me. When I was manic, I’d drink to come down so I could sleep. When I was depressed, I drank because, well, I was depressed. In between, I drank to deal with the crazy ass paranoia that I had developed since I was a little kid. I din’t think I could deal with life without the alcohol. I agreed to quit drinking for a month. At the same time I just quit sleeping, went totally manic and finally got diagnosed and put on meds.

I don’t know about everyone that is bipolar, but self-medicating with wine and whiskey masked the bipolar for me.
[/quote]

I drank too because of depression. I quit for 2 years while I was medicated.
Now I can have a glass or 2 of wine and let it be because I don’t have the need to medicate myself because of bad feelings.

64

Thanks for the info…this july is when I will attempt to rid myself of these meds…I. am ready and want to live the rest of my life devoid. Of the dependency of meds

65

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Thanks for the info…this july is when I will attempt to rid myself of these meds…I. am ready and want to live the rest of my life devoid. Of the dependency of meds[/quote]

Good job. Why July?

66

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Thanks for the info…this july is when I will attempt to rid myself of these meds…I. am ready and want to live the rest of my life devoid. Of the dependency of meds[/quote]

even when i was coming down from 225mg to 150mg i had to taper off slowly, so make sure you do that was well.

67

[quote]Berserkergang wrote:
The real question is why in most today’s western societies so many people are fucked up to the point that they’re unable to function normally without psychiatric drugs? Obviously there’s something wrong here.[/quote]

x2

Something is rotten in Dennmark.

Its just my opinion but I agree that it looks like stress would be a huge part of it

68

No direct experience, but I used to know a guy who ended up being schizophrenic. I didn’t see him for a long time and when I did again, he had morphed from being tall and very lanky to being hugely obese. I thought it strange until I read not long afterwards that many of the preferred anti-psychotic drugs cause tremendous weight gain and can bring on full-blown type 2 diabetes.

IDK, but that’s a pretty hefty price to pay even if it keeps you from thinking the devil is following you around.

69

[quote]iflyboats wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I have been on antidepressants (of and on) for 15 years or so, I can definitley say they have helped, but I often wonder is is simply a placebo effect? Now I have found out I have low T, could this have been my problem all along? I wonder will I have to take this shit forever and then find out 10 years from now my liver and kidneys are destroyed?

You know if a head doctor can stick a needle in my brain and tell me that Im low in some chemical so you need to take this, fine it seems concrete the problem is the whole idea of being prescribed meds based on how I am simply feeling seems warped to me. I hope to one day get off the meds, it bothers me that I have to rely on an outside variable for my mental and emotional well - being.

I have attempted to seek a Orthomolecular Psychologist through the suggestion of a fellow T-Nation Member (Thanks so much More Pain) and feel this combined with other ways may be my ultimate solution.

I dont trust the whole pharmeucitical industry on a whole. [/quote]

It is well-established that SSRI drugs dramatically inhibit REM sleep, which is when testosterone is secreted. I don’t know that the actual link between SSRI consumption and diminished testosterone levels is established, but it stands to reason that if you disrupt the event that results in testosterone secretion, you might ultimately reduce your testosterone levels. Definitely something to think about.[/quote]

That’s very interesting. It’s well known that SSRIs can reduce sex drive in both men and women. What you’ve just pointed out may be explanation for that.

70

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

Couldnt agree with you more.[/quote]

Absolutely. “Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad.” Euripedes, Ancient Greek playwright

Obviously “mad” here meaning insane, not angry.

71

[quote]Kerley wrote:

[quote]Berserkergang wrote:
The real question is why in most today’s western societies so many people are fucked up to the point that they’re unable to function normally without psychiatric drugs? Obviously there’s something wrong here.[/quote]

bad shit still happens people?[/quote]

Yes and no. I used to have this argument back when I was married. My ex used to say that the world is so fucked up now. And I would say compared to when? How about the late 1930s - you had a lingering economic depression, the rise of Nazism, and Imperial Japan’s attack on the Chinese city of Nanking. (Look THAT up if you want to get really depressed.) And we think our world is dark today because of Darfur or Al Qaeda?

I think there’s a certain amount of pushing of feel-good drugs on the populace to keep everyone passive and reasonably content. Read the sci-fi novel “Brave New World” by Aldous Huxley. His potrayal of “soma” being handed out like candy so everyone can be kept in line and doing their jobs unquestioningly was pretty prophetic.

72

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]doogie wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
I might get shit for this, but I think it holds some truth. I dont have the source, but my father is a trauma therapist/addiction counselor, and apparently a lot of people with bi polar and other disorders also have huge drug/alcohol abuse problems, which, when they talk to a therapist/psychiatrist/whatever doc, hides their problem. I’ve also heard that someone who is bi polar has a hugely greater % of having addiction/alcohol problems. A lot of you seem to know your shit in regards to this topic, I was curious about thoughts on that. As in disorder-drug/alcohol abuse- over prescribed? I dont mean to say I think people with bi polar and other such disorders should not be prescribed medication, I firmly believe they should. Hope the above is clear enough.[/quote]

I’m bipolar. Before getting medicated I would drink until I staggered to bed every night. That is EVERY night. I was totally functional, though. Still got up at 5:30 and taught school at one of the best schools in the nation. When my wife finally confronted me about the drinking, I freaked out. The thought of not having it scared the piss out of me. When I was manic, I’d drink to come down so I could sleep. When I was depressed, I drank because, well, I was depressed. In between, I drank to deal with the crazy ass paranoia that I had developed since I was a little kid. I din’t think I could deal with life without the alcohol. I agreed to quit drinking for a month. At the same time I just quit sleeping, went totally manic and finally got diagnosed and put on meds.

I don’t know about everyone that is bipolar, but self-medicating with wine and whiskey masked the bipolar for me.
[/quote]

I drank too because of depression. I quit for 2 years while I was medicated.
Now I can have a glass or 2 of wine and let it be because I don’t have the need to medicate myself because of bad feelings. [/quote]

One of my best friends is bipolar (had no idea it was just one word) and he recently got sober through AA and that with his meds finally being what they need to be, he is doing great. I dont have much experience with meds but his change has made me a supporter of them, when necessary

73

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Thanks for the info…this july is when I will attempt to rid myself of these meds…I. am ready and want to live the rest of my life devoid. Of the dependency of meds[/quote]

Good job. Why July?
[/quote]

I had a bit of a tumultuous year myself, marital problems as well, my father almost died and I lost a good paying job and was unemployed for about 6 months. At the advice of my shrink and internest (both of whom I genuinely like and trust) they both said wait until the summer when my life is more stable to start tapering off. It seems like a good idea

74

[quote]Kerley wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Thanks for the info…this july is when I will attempt to rid myself of these meds…I. am ready and want to live the rest of my life devoid. Of the dependency of meds[/quote]

even when i was coming down from 225mg to 150mg i had to taper off slowly, so make sure you do that was well.[/quote]

No doubt kerley, thanks.

Seriously Im gonna be real slow with it, I truly dont care how long it takes as long as its done. I MEAN FUCKING BRAIN ZAPS, who wants to deal with that?!!

75

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]Kerley wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Thanks for the info…this july is when I will attempt to rid myself of these meds…I. am ready and want to live the rest of my life devoid. Of the dependency of meds[/quote]

even when i was coming down from 225mg to 150mg i had to taper off slowly, so make sure you do that was well.[/quote]

No doubt kerley, thanks.

Seriously Im gonna be real slow with it, I truly dont care how long it takes as long as its done. I MEAN FUCKING BRAIN ZAPS, who wants to deal with that?!![/quote]

one time my GP fucked up and i didnt have any meds( i cant remember exactly what he did), and it felt like vertigo when ever i moved, it was shitty.

76

Yeah,we should definately let the crazies run around being crazy without doing anything to stop the craziness,because they might have an adverse reaction when they’re in their 70s.

77

Now that wasnâ??t necessary, I refuse to get it into bullshit internet tough guy talk, but not for nothing that was nothing but disrespectful why waste your time and post crap like that?

I wouldnâ??t even wish mental illness on youâ?¦fucktard.

78

It makes me happy to see people here managing their mental disorders in any way, and leading a satisfying life. I wish you all the best :slight_smile:

79

[quote]wigsa wrote:
Yeah,we should definately let the crazies run around being crazy without doing anything to stop the craziness,because they might have an adverse reaction when they’re in their 70s.[/quote]

Way to ignore the central issues of the debate and just wade in with your trite, socially conditioned, uninformed opinion dude!

Do you do any other tricks?

80

[quote]wigsa wrote:
Yeah,we should definately let the crazies run around being crazy without doing anything to stop the craziness,because they might have an adverse reaction when they’re in their 70s.[/quote]

Nobody is advocating stopping treatment of mentally ill people.