Ok guys, Ive spent the last 40 days or so getting my diet, rest, and workout in “cycle ready” condition and have made some great improvements. I will be starting my cycle in a few weeks and would like to get some input on it.
My proposed cycle is as follows:
Test E
Week 1-10
400mg/wk
.25 Adex 2X/wk
For PCT I plan on using the Test Stasis/Taper method with a 4 week stasis period. The reason for using the Adex throughout the cycle is to cut down on water retention and estrogen related sides, particularly blood pressure. I have not really had BP issues in the past, however it usually rests slightly above normal (125/83) and I do not want this to be an issue. I will also have nolva on hand just in case.
My diet will consist of about 3000-3500 cals/day at more of a cutting ratio of Protein, Fats, an Carbs(50/20/30) All clean foods with carbs and fats seperated (carbs early in the day and prior to and post workout and fats later in the evening and night).
The reason for the somewhat low caloric intake while on cyle is because my maintenence level is only around 1500-1700. I have always gained at anything above this level.
I will suppliment with a complex protein, omega 3s, and mulitvitimans.
I currently train 3-4 days a week on mostly compound movements. I will continue this schedule but I will gradually add more sets and reps as my strength and recovery increases. I will also add a few more single joint movements as well.
If your cycle is 10 weeks use the 6 week period at 100mg/wk as this is what has worked in the past for most. Id also bump that dose 100-200mg per week on top of what you have planned. Adex 3x/wk.
If you change to 8 weeks then the 4 weeks may be more appropriate.
Don’t most people put maintenance cals at 15bodyweight? I’m not sure at all, but if that is true, than you maintenance cals should be 3,105 . Hell, even if maintenance cals were 10bodyweight, it would still come out to 2,070. I think your idea of maintenance cals may be a little low. But like I said, I’m not 100% sure.
Thanks lilguy for the input. I did read what you suggested about the stasis in Prisoner’s taper thread. The reason I had it a 4 weeks was because I wanted to prevent another couple weeks of pinning, but I will change the stasis period to 6 weeks because recovery weighs more than the price of pinning a few more times.
Thanks Corkonian for your post. This is the same formula I got from a book when I was first trying to calculate my maintenence level. However, when i tried the amount of calories that this formula suggested I gained lots of weight, mostly fat!
When i lowered the calorie amount to about 1700 at a ratio of 50/30/20 of P,F,C, I actually maintained weight. I did this for 30 days.
I know its a bit unusual, but this is what has truly worked. I may up the calories a bit more while on cycle to see what happens though.
Now in all humility, can we please limit the comments to cycle input.
With a cycle such as this, is a SERM necessary to have on hand at all or can you get away with just the AI (adex) and the test taper?
Also, would a 6 week test taper look like this?:
Week 11: 100 mg EW
Week 12: 100 mg EW
Week 13: 100 mg EW
week 14: 80 mg EW
Week 15: 60 mg EW
Week 16: 40 mg EW
edit: I think it would look like the following, am I right?
Week 11: 100 mg EW
Week 12: 100 mg EW
Week 13: 100 mg EW
week 14: 100 mg EW
Week 15: 100 mg EW
Week 16: 100 mg EW
Week 17: 80 mg EW
Week 18: 60 mg EW
Week 19: 40 mg EW
Week 20: 20 mg EW
It wouldn’t hurt to add another week at 20mg. And if you’re only going to run 400mg/wk, it wouldn’t hurt to bump it to 12 weeks. But with your physique, you shouldn’t be running a high dose anyway
And you could use a SERM during the stasis period if you have gyno, just stay away from AIs at that point in time.
No need to automatically use the Adex, esp. with that low of a dose. Use it when you need, not before.
And lastly, like everybody else said, you need to eat.
I’ve mentioned in other threads, as have others, but you shouldn’t be running a cycle, yet you are because you’re apparently to stubborn and thick headed to realize you’re only going to accomplish what you could otherwise accomplish naturally. Which with your apparent lack of of knowledge regarding diet, training, and AAS could be a big bunch of nothing. That all being said, good luck to ya.
I’ll help ya out if need be, but just remember I don’t support this.
[quote]dthomas58 wrote:
With a cycle such as this, is a SERM necessary to have on hand at all or can you get away with just the AI (adex) and the test taper?
[/quote]
It is smart practice to always keep a stock of nolvadex on hand, especailly for a first cycle or new compound.
Thanks for the input guys! World, I would really not feel comfortable waiting to see what happens as far as estrogen related sides, thats why I would prefer running the Adex throughout the cycle. However, i do see your point.
Would it be much of a hinderance on gains to run the adex at a very low dose throughout? And, as far as eating goes, if my goal is to cut at a bigger ratio than bulking, would this amount of cals still be too low?
I will have nolva on hand, but would prefer to wait till stasis time to use it if needed.
Are there human males who would develop gyno from 400mg a week, sure. Are there human males who would not develop gyno from 2G a week, sure.
I totally respect a man’s fear of growing himself some man boobs. But if you are going to choose to gear up, ask yourself why. You do it for the gains. You need that estrogen there to a degree. The statistical average says 400-500mg a week without any AI will not result in any gyno at all whatsoever. Without question there are exceptions. Without question if fear governs your actions you will pick an AI.
You might think you were being prudent to run .25mg of A-dex two or three times a week but you really would be wrong.
IMO AI’s are overused and overdosed for the relative gear many people take. You truly don’t need an AI at your dosage. If you genuinely have fear than who can stop you. I’m telling you that fear is misplaced at 400mg a week. To put it in context, I don’t believe the median average guy needs an AI if his gear is less than 1G a week.
A compromise might be to run proviron. Proviron is not an AI but does share of the benefits of AI’s not mention freeing up more test by binding to your SHBG. If you can find it 25mg ED might be a nice cherry on-top to your Test. Last cycle I ran 750mgTest and 450mg Deca with a 50mg dbol kick start and the only form of estrogen control I ran was proviron 25-50mg ED; and it can be argued how much estrogen control proviron really provides.
A compromise might be to run proviron. Proviron is not an AI but does share of the benefits of AI’s not mention freeing up more test by binding to your SHBG. If you can find it 25mg ED might be a nice cherry on-top to your Test. Last cycle I ran 750mgTest and 450mg Deca with a 50mg dbol kick start and the only form of estrogen control I ran was proviron 25-50mg ED; and it can be argued how much estrogen control proviron really provides. [/quote]
It doesn’t provide much e-control because I managed to start developing gyno in just over 500mgs of test a week about the 9th week of my last cycle while running 50mgs of Proviron a day.
Proviron is great for its SHBG properties.
And, despite what I say above, I agree with the other guys that you should not mess with an AI until you need it. Don’t worry, it won’t be “too late” at that point. If your nipples start too feel painful to the touch or itchy, take a .25ml dose and see what happens from there. I was way late, like over 2 weeks late, taking my estrogen meds and I still managed to get everything under control.
You should use an AI like arimidex during your cycle to prevent gyno, and a SERM like nolvadex after your cycle (during PCT) to prevent gyno. And both only if you need them. If you use then SERM on cycle you will reduce its effectiveness if you happen to need it post cycle. AIs are not to be used post cycle because their functions is to stop aromatization, which should not be such a problem post cycle as will be estrogen rebound.
And yeah, you can wait until your nipples start to itch or get sensitive. If you think that is what’s happening (because I tended to explain it away because it was cold or whatever…mistake) then go ahead and start the adex.
A compromise might be to run proviron. Proviron is not an AI but does share of the benefits of AI’s not mention freeing up more test by binding to your SHBG. If you can find it 25mg ED might be a nice cherry on-top to your Test. Last cycle I ran 750mgTest and 450mg Deca with a 50mg dbol kick start and the only form of estrogen control I ran was proviron 25-50mg ED; and it can be argued how much estrogen control proviron really provides.
It doesn’t provide much e-control because I managed to start developing gyno in just over 500mgs of test a week about the 9th week of my last cycle while running 50mgs of Proviron a day.
Proviron is great for its SHBG properties.
And, despite what I say above, I agree with the other guys that you should not mess with an AI until you need it. Don’t worry, it won’t be “too late” at that point. If your nipples start too feel painful to the touch or itchy, take a .25ml dose and see what happens from there. I was way late, like over 2 weeks late, taking my estrogen meds and I still managed to get everything under control. [/quote]
I too got the same symptoms after only 3 shots of a testphenylprop/mast mix. It was 150/50 T/M per ml. So at 3 shots of 2ml each, it was about 900mg of test at that point, and they got painful and started to develop the hard tissue under one. It took me almost two weeks to get my hands on nolva as the discussion amongst myself and a well respected vet was that there wouldn’t be a need for an AI and/or nolva. Bottom line was it still went away with the nolva protocol which I hit it with in a week or so. None the less it was scary and freaked me out. Of course I had some other more serious consequences of the cycle that took precedance on my train of thought like a cellulitis type infection and crazy heart rate etc.
I quit the cycle right before the fourth shot was due and got my ass back to normal after a real fright there for a while as my quad took on otherworldly inflammation that had me really worried about infection too.
Anyway, you'll be fine as long as you have the adex and nolva right there. Because as Cortes and I can vouch, even when the treatment for it is delayed a bit, it can still be brought under control. So if the goods are right there, don't sweat waiting for the symptoms, since you can slam it with the stuff right away and be right as rain.
ToneBone
That’s too little and too long. It would do little more than shut you down severely and require an extensive amount of post cycle therapy and recovery. Low dose, long length cycles are just a horrible idea in general.
His DIET will determine how much bodyfat he sheds or gains, NOT his cycle.
The only problem his high amount of bodyfat could present is by aggravating estrogen related side effects.