Help with Elevated Cortisol

[lou_smeets]

The pleasure is all mine.

Based on what you said, you either wake up already overstimulated or in a lethargic state.

Both are signs of high adrenaline activity, depleted dopamine or inefficient dopamine system and low serotonin levels.

My personal recommendation for you would be to completely stop drinking coffee right away. If you must have it, drink it 2-3 hours later and spread your one cup over 2 semi-cups. This is a neat trick to make drinking less coffee easier because by spreading it out you made it look like you can still drink 2 cups instead of one, even though it really is one cup of coffee.

Have a hearty carb rich breakfast (like oats and fruits with a shake of spirulina (disgusting but rich in nutrients) and whey protein or eggs on the side) to lower cortisol and adrenaline and take a short morning walk outside to gently reintroduce cortisol regulation in the mornings.

For preworkout, try eating a small apple or a teaspoon of raw honey or simply not eating instead of coffee. You’d be surprised about your performance in the gym from naturally elevated levels of cortisol and adrenaline.

Also if you perpetually struggly with pre-workout anxiety you need to take a closer look at your training regimen and figure out what it is that causes the anxiety. Is it the intensity, the rep scheme, the doubt of not knowing if you’re training in the right zone, the exercises themselves, the idea that your exercise execution is not 100% perfect, the risk of getting injured, …

Try to figure it out, stick to exercises that you know and control, focus on movements that you want to maintain, get stronger at or build a bigger body with. If squats are not your thing, go to hack squats or leg presses. Don’t wanna deadlift because you fear you might break your precious lower back, don’t do deadlifts. Don’t make things too complicated, it will only decrease performance and lower the pleasure/motivational response that you get from training.

[oldnattychris]

Thank you for your thoughtful advice.

What you’re saying makes perfect sense. I will try the idea of spreading the coffee out.

My breakfast is already as you describe, and I usually train fasted in the morning.

I’m trying a few strategies to cope with pre-workout anxiety. I think it’s mostly in my head because I can certainly manage the (very light) work that I do every day. But I also wanted to try out your suggestions for managing cortisol and adrenaline. Every little bit helps . . .

Thank you again for your time and patience!

[Voxel]

What’s your understanding of the mechanisms behind why central stimulants have a calming effect on someone with ADHD?

[lou_smeets]

I’m sorry, I have no experience in neurodevelopment disorders like ADHD. I’d rather be honest and tell you I can’t help you with this than trying to act like I know all about it.

My hypothesis though would be the effect that stimulants containing cafeine have on dopamine.

Based on current research, people who suffer from ADHD have issues with the dopaminergic system; either the production of dopamine, the sensitivity of the dopamine receptors due to defective gene expression of DRD2 or the conversion of dopamine into noradrenaline. Both dopamine and noradrenaline are required for focus and attention regulation among other things.

Using stimulants might cause small improvements to the dopaminergic system due to increased dopamine production and thus a higher conversion rate to noradrenaline. It’s just an hypothesis though. All I know is that people with ADHD have altered gene expression in parts of the brain that are intertwined with the dopaminergic and serotonergic systems.

I would suggest reading the following study (2008): “Attention-deficit-hyperactivity disorder and reward deficiency syndrome” on ncbi. It might offer you a better answer.

[scottlindsay_2000]

Something I do not see mentioned in this thread is using Phosphatidylserine to control cortisol. I have a problem with high C after a strenuous work out. I use Phosphatidylserine and it helps. One study posted here on T-N confirmed a 30% reduction of cortisol with 800 mg of Phosphatidylserine. Thibedeau has also discussed it’s use in past blogs which is how it got on my radar to look into further.
When that is not enough I use a weak casein protein mixed with glicine to calm the brain 2 G, leucine to spike insulin without calories 5 G, and highly branched cyclic dextrin 10 G to spike insulin and suppress cortisol. This can put me out in as little as 15 min. I know it may mess with some guys diet. But it is effective in turning off cortisol production by increasing insulin. Plus it is effective in getting much needed sleep.

[lou_smeets]

What you say here is correct. Phosphatidylserine has been shown to lower cortisol levels, not only PW but at any time of day due to the ‘adaptogenic’ effect it has on the pituitary’s response to stress.

However, high quality PS can be quite costly and there are many free/cheap alternative options out there to reduce cortisol without relying on a supplement stack:

• Optimizing your own circadian rhythms and adenosine regulation

• Food: carbs and substances containing L-theanine, magnesium or apigenin decrease cortisol levels

• Light movement like walking, cycling, swimming (especially in nature) has anxyolitic and mood enhancing effects.

• Breathing protocols

• NSDR (Non Sleep Deep rest, very effective to enhance sleep/nap quality and focus during the day)

• CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy. You can optimize training, sleep, food and supplement protocols as much as you want, if you’re not working on reducing/eliminating destructive/anxiety generating neural circuits, you’re always going to respond to self induced stressors in the same way. Off course sleep, food and supplements can help numb the stress response by making it less pronounced but creating new neural circuits get rid of this old response almost entirely)

• Light: sunset viewing and darkness decrease brain wave activity and increase melatonin production. There is an inverse relationship between melatonin and cortisol. If one is higher, the other will be lower (pharmaceuticals can upset this relationship off course).

• Temperature: a cooler room temperature allows you body to cool down and slows down your heart rate (obviously this will have little impact if your cortisol levels are elevated due to psychological stress but even then a cool environment can offer some relief. Being stressed out in a hot room feels entrapping and enhances the stress response even further).

• Social support: there are many peer reviewed studies underlining the powerful anxyolitic and cortisol reducing effects of social interaction in a supportive and empathic environment. In human words, think of how relaxed you are when hanging out with your family or friends.

• Supplements: L-theanine, apigenin, magnesium bisglycinate or threonate work well but you can also add glycine, myo inositol, 5-HTP or GABA to your stack. I consciously put supplements last because you can obtain many of these compounds from food alone, at least if you are consuming a wide variety of healthy foods and are not excluding entire food groups from your diet. Some people really don’t need any supplements at all. All they need to lower cortisol are some behavioral changes as well as lifestyle changes (e.g. if their training plan greatly increases cortisol levels and they have a hard time getting it back down, adjusting training volume might be one tool in the toolbox to reduce the cortisol response from training).

[scottlindsay_2000]

Thank You lou_smeets

I appreciate your detailed reply. I do use some of the recommendations that you have listed. I have not heard that L-theanine can be effect to counter cortisol. I do have and have used L-theanine as a relaxant in low does (100 mg). Maybe I need to up the dosage.
I am not familiar with Apigenin and will do some research on it. I do eat a lot of fruits as well as vegies so I may be getting enough in my diet already.

Always a learning experience.

| lou_smeets Member Coach
September 5 |

• | - |

What you say here is correct. Phosphatidylserine has been shown to lower cortisol levels, not only PW but at any time of day due to the ‘adaptogenic’ effect it has on the pituitary’s response to stress.

However, high quality PS can be quite costly and there are many free/cheap alternative options out there to reduce cortisol without relying on a supplement stack:

• Optimizing your own circadian rhythms and adenosine regulation

• Food: carbs and substances containing L-theanine, magnesium or apigenin decrease cortisol levels

• Light movement like walking, cycling, swimming (especially in nature) has anxyolitic and mood enhancing effects.

• Breathing protocols

• NSDR (Non Sleep Deep rest, very effective to enhance sleep/nap quality and focus during the day)

• CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy. You can optimize training, sleep, food and supplement protocols as much as you want, if you’re not working on reducing/eliminating destructive/anxiety generating neural circuits, you’re always going to respond to self induced stressors in the same way. Off course sleep, food and supplements can help numb the stress response by making it less pronounced but creating new neural circuits get rid of this old response almost entirely)

• Light: sunset viewing and darkness decrease brain wave activity and increase melatonin production. There is an inverse relationship between melatonin and cortisol. If one is higher, the other will be lower (pharmaceuticals can upset this relationship off course).

• Temperature: a cooler room temperature allows you body to cool down and slows down your heart rate (obviously this will have little impact if your cortisol levels are elevated due to psychological stress but even then a cool environment can offer some relief. Being stressed out in a hot room feels entrapping and enhances the stress response even further).

• Social support: there are many peer reviewed studies underlining the powerful anxyolitic and cortisol reducing effects of social interaction in a supportive and empathic environment. In human words, think of how relaxed you are when hanging out with your family or friends.

• Supplements: L-theanine, apigenin, magnesium bisglycinate or threonate work well but you can also add glycine, myo inositol, 5-HTP or GABA to your stack. I consciously put supplements last because you can obtain many of these compounds from food alone, at least if you are consuming a wide variety of healthy foods and are not excluding entire food groups from your diet. Some people really don’t need any supplements at all. All they need to lower cortisol are some behavioral changes as well as lifestyle changes (e.g. if their training plan greatly increases cortisol levels and they have a hard time getting it back down, adjusting training volume might be one tool in the toolbox to reduce the cortisol response from training).

[lou_smeets]

@scottlindsay_2000

I have not heard that L-theanine can be effect to counter cortisol. I do have and have used L-theanine as a relaxant in low does (100 mg). Maybe I need to up the dosage.

It does but it does not lower cortisol directly. It instead acts on the GABA-ergic pathway by increasing GABA receptor sensitivity and GABA levels, thus protecting serotonin and dopamine production in the brain and decreasing neurological activity by slowing down the conversion of dopamine to adrenaline. GABA is the main inhibiting neurotransmitter, serotonin is more like a mood regulator. Both neurotransmitters are critical to bring nervous system activity, alongside elevated cortisol levels, back down after an intense bout of stress, whether physiological or psychological.

Maybe the dosage was to low for you. Recommendations and safety margins vary between 100mg and 400mg of L-theanine taken 30-60 minutes before bedtime. HOWEVER, if you experienced intense, anxiety ridden dreams during your period of taking L-theanine, then it might not work for you. In this case, magnesium threonate (if you can tolerate it, some people get stomach issues using this form of magnesium) or bisglycinate might be a better solution.

@scottlindsay_2000

I am not familiar with Apigenin and will do some research on it. I do eat a lot of fruits as well as vegies so I may be getting enough in my diet already.

Apigenin has some anxyolitic properties when taken in high dosages, either from food and herbs like parsley and camomille or from single ingredient supplements. It basically inhibits NMDA receptors. These are the receptors that glutamate, the main excitatory neurotransmitter of the brain, binds to. It can also increase GABA A- receptor sensitivity. That’s why apigenin taken alongside magnesium threonate/bisglycinate and L-theanine has a synergistic effect in calming down the nervous system and decreasing cortisol.