Help Me Get Back to Normal After Cycle

Pharma TRT
1

Here’s my story,

29yrs old.
74 in
230lbs

Ive been on TRT for about 18months,(50mg 2x a week test cyp) all was well until I decided to bump the test cyp up to 500mg a week and add 300mg NPP a week. along with aromasin and caber.

I ran this for 8 weeks. and all was fine. I know this was a stupid move now as i didnt truly know how 19-nors would affect me. NEVER AGAIN!

I then returned to my normal trt of 100mg a week and all hell broke loose. This was 2 months ago

i still have libido but cant get an erection. NO morning wood either. I’ve been emotional like never before. Bursting into a crying fits/meltdown for no reason at the drop of a hat. anxiety like crazy, waking up early but still tired, feelings of an adrenaline rush 100+ times a day that usually lead to the crying fits. Racing negative thoughts.

It seems to be getting worse and worse too! Ive been off everything except for the 100mg test cyp a week (2x 50mg) for 2 months now and im about at my wits end.

My doctor is basically dumb when it come to this stuff but i do have some labs from them.

I gotta get back to my happy self or im gonna end up losing my job and my wife!
I felt awesome on TRT and would just like to get back to normal again.

Here are some of the labs i have back so far, more to follow. I also have complete Lipids and CBC if that is of interest.

T3, TOTAL 1.12 NG/ML RANGE:0.60-1.81
PROGESTERONE 0.3 NG/ML <=1.4
PROLACTIN 2.3 ng/mL 3.7-17.9
SHBG 17 NMOL/L 10-50
THYROID PEROXIDASE 13IU/ML <=35
THYROGLOBIN ANTIBODIES <20 <=20
TEST, FREE 121.5 PG/ML 46-224
T3 REVERSE 23 NG/DL 8-25
DHEA-S 154 MCG/DL 110-510
HOMOCYSTEINE 8.3 UMOL/L 3.7-13.9
TEST, TOTAL 572 NG/DL 300-623
CORTISOL AM 14.2 UG/DL 4.5-22.7
C-REACTIVE PROTEIN <5.0 MG/L <=10
TSH 1.79 uIU/ML 0.465-4.68
DHT 16 NG/ML 16-79
FSH <0.66 mIU/ML 1.55-9.74
LH <0.216 mIU/ML 1.51-9.36
PSA 0.866 NG/ML 0.0-4.0
Estradiol <20 pg/ml No range given.
Insulin 6.1 uIU/ml not detected -24.6
INSULIN-LIKE GROWTH FACTOR-I DNR SD
INSULIN-LIKE GROWTH FACTOR-I 221 ng/mL 63-373
INSULIN-LIKE GROWTH FACTOR-I 0.8 SD <2.0

Thank you in advance for your insight.

2

Sounds like some serious E2 issues…I don’t see that in your labs. Either crashed or sky high, outcomes are very similar.

3

[quote]catfish74 wrote:
Sounds like some serious E2 issues…I don’t see that in your labs. Either crashed or sky high, outcomes are very similar. [/quote]

Awaiting e2 results yet, although i have a feeling they didnt use the sensitive essay test. but maybe we can still get a little insight.

Thanks Cat

4

Progesterone also seemed really low to me?? anyone know anything about what ideal levels of progesterone would be in a male?

5

I was also thinking E2.
But have no experience with that drastic an affect.

6

I had a similar issue with deca, but I was running it too high and my test far too low. The issue lasted about 3 weeks then went away.

But it definitely sounds like an estrogen issue from what you are describing.

7

I’m not sure on the progesterone, check and see if the sticky has a range for it (one of the stickies has recommended labs and associated ranges).

8

How were the gains on cycle and for how long?

What is NPP and 19-nors?

9

Sounds to me like an E2 issue as well. I was extremely emotional, and cried almost at the drop of a hat. My estradiol was 58, when it was supposed to be <40. And the only time in my life that I’ve had anxiety was when my Estradiol was too high.

10

I looked through the stickies and see progesterone listed as a test to perform but it doesnt have a range to go with it.

I’m still waiting on the results for a few more tests including e2. I’ll fill you guys in with those numbers as soon as I have them

I really appreciate the insight guys.

11

UPDATE:

couple more results are back from the lab.

Estradiol <20 pg/ml No range given.
Insulin 6.1 uIU/ml no detected -24.6

Thoughts? Im not taking an AI.

12

bump.

Labs results are finally back in their entirety.

IGF-1 results posted in initial post.

Can Anyone help me?

13

You could try some dostinex and see if that helps. I’m doubting E2. Prolactin or receptor sensitivity that hasn’t readjusted may be the issue. You may have to wait six months for this to clear totally.

14

Thanks Brent.

I somehow missed posting my prolactin levels. They were 2.3 while on Caber. They normally run in the 13-14 range though. I quit caber but didnt see any change.;they are now added to the original post

I’ve read about deca and nerve damage also.

Brent, Can you elaborate a little for me on receptors being desensitized?

15

Frustrating that they didn’t give you your exact e2 level, but still, below 20 is surprising considering you are not on an AI. You could be in the single-digits for all we know.

I’m not sure why your test isn’t aromatizing to a degree to bring e2 up, but it sounds like your balls are totally shut down. Do you take Hcg ever? I’d be inclined to switch over to hcg monotherapy for month or so to get some gonad e2 production. Admittedly, low e2 may not be the whole problem but it looks like it’s at least a problem.

Course, with any luck, things have improved in the last six days since your last post.

16

Ned,
Your story is identicle to mine…
I have often thought that the TT level has been falsified by remaining deca metabolites… Making TT levels far lower than seen on the test justifying the Low E@ result…
I am at almost 17 months in your shoes…Things are better on the emotional side… erections are much better ( Not normal) and libido is horrible…
How have you improved?
Any news?
All the best…

17

Ned, Have your bloods been taken through Lab Corp. by chance…?
There are different testing methods… I have read, anecdotal y, that some guys have had very erratic TT results while deca or its related metabolites were in their system…Just another thought to consider…

18

Your E2 is below 20 but they don’t tell you what the number is on the lab?! Kind of important…

19

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:
Ned,
Your story is identicle to mine…
I have often thought that the TT level has been falsified by remaining deca metabolites… Making TT levels far lower than seen on the test justifying the Low E@ result…
I am at almost 17 months in your shoes…Things are better on the emotional side… erections are much better ( Not normal) and libido is horrible…
How have you improved?
Any news?
All the best…[/quote]

Things have certainly improved for me. Emotionally, things are better overall but still hit or miss.

libido is great, just cant always rise to the occasion.

I’ve read so much about deca and how bad it can mess you up. I honestly don’t think its any one thing.

Neurotransmitters get messed up, nerve damage, and not to mention it just plain shuts you down hard as fuck.

Question? did you use caber while on?

I have a new theory on this. Caber raises dopamine way to high for some people who don’t actually need it. This lowers serotonin. This would also raise norepinephrine levels, causing the constant adrenaline like rush. once this is out of wack, it can take a very long time to correct itself.

I’ve since dropped the TRT in favor of clomid monotherapy as the wife and I got the baby bug. I’ve been on this for almost 2 months now with very little improvement, although some. I honestly believe it just shuts you down so hard that it takes longer to recover than anyone runs a PCT for. Thus. you just stay shut down.

here is the link to me clomid thread.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/thoughts_on_switching_from_trt_to_clomid_monotherapy

20

Ned…
Good to hear the mental sides are better…
I would love to chat with ya when we’ve got time…
I did not run caber during the cycle… However, I have had 2 runs with it after the cycle. And yes, the second run gave me problems as you spoke about…once stopped it took about 2-3 weeks to normalize from the caber…

I got depressed on it likely from the lowered seratonin and had no adrenaline spikes… Actually the opposite…bad low energy spells that somehow followed the cortisol curve and blood sugar levels… Bottom line, it was terrible…!