Help Interpreting Total T & Free T Ranges (VA Medical Care)

Hey everyone, new here and looking for any of your thoughts/remarks or personal experience with what I am about to discuss below.

I want to keep my background information brief for now as I have not received my E2 or SHBG lab results yet so the full picture for my lab work is still not there yet:
Age 28 (turned 28 a few weeks ago)
Symptom onset at around 21 or 22 with extreme worsening up to this point
Symptoms: Nonexistent libido, weak erections when aroused and great difficulty to become aroused, 0 morning wood year round (upon waking, though I am aware that it is possible it only occurs when I am sleeping), lethargy and very low energy from the moment I wake up until I go to bed (caffeine helps very briefly), memory problems at times, definite brain fog, an overall lessening of my confidence as time goes on, and man the list goes on honestly.

Lifestyle habits and current state: No drugs and no alcohol. Really I don’t like drinking. I’m in the best shape of my life physique wise. 186lbs during my current bulk at 5’9" and 16% body fat. I’m more muscular than ever. Was 155lbs (in a depleted state) at 9% body fat in January of 2021. I feel I have a great genetic response to weight training, which I do 5 times a week at about 90 minutes per session with heavy compound lifts at 6-12 rep range, and lighter isolation work, plus stairmaster for cardio (all that being said I struggle to get it done with my current energy levels but it is the only thing keeping me sane and keeping my confidence above zero). My macros and micro nutrients are good, plenty of fiber, fruit, and vegetables with a good concept of my calories in vs out. Doctor told me my physical was “perfect” and muscle mass was great (whatever that means). Sleep hygiene has remarkably increased since leaving the Military in 2019 (surprise surprise) and I now sleep 7.5-9 hours per night. Tested for sleep apnea while in the military due to restless sleep and snoring and I tested negative. I left active duty Army at age 25 and have spent the last 3 years going down hill symptom wise despite the outcome of more free time and better sleep and diet being my so called best physique yet. Sex life is non-existent, which should be obvious from my symptoms and it has had a significant impact on several relationships I have had with women since the age of 22. Sometimes I can get it up during sex with lots of poking and prodding but it rarely if ever stays up for more than a few moments. My most recent STD panel came back negative for pretty much everything you can think of. During my time in the military my symptoms were written off as minor depression and Army Docs were dismissive of the idea of it being my hormones.

That brings us to current day pretty much, if anyone has any other questions about lifestyle or etc etc up to this point just let me know. I recently enrolled at the VA for healthcare. Finally 3 years after leaving the military I have had enough of assuming I am experiencing “mild depression” despite my healthy habits and effort towards being the best me possible. I asked for a full STD Panel, Hormone panel, and Lipids after discussing symptoms with PCP at the VA. He was very receptive and ordered all that and few additional bits of labwork. As said above I am still waiting on a few of my hormones to come back but I have this much so far:

PROLACTIN 6.8 ng/mL 2.6-13 reference range
(total) TESTOSTERONE 3.17 ng/mL 2-7.5 reference range
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 12.9 pg/mL 9.3-26.5 reference range
ESTROGEN 68 pg/mL 56-213
SEX HORM.BIND.GLOB. 27.4 nmol/L 6.5-55.9

Let me clarify one more thing. The morning I had my blood drawn I was a few days back from a sunny vacation where I got plenty of sunshine, plenty of sleep, was in a caloric surplus, and exercised lightly at the hotel gym while doing plenty of walking around during the day. The night before my labs I slept well. So I would say I was literally in the best place physically and mentally for labs compared to when I am working and things get much crazier and stressful.

From first glance with what I know so far it seems like my total T is low and my free T is very low, but according to the VA reference range I am normal. My main questions are why is the VA reference range so much lower than 99% of what I see online? Does anyone have experience with VA care / hormone optimization?

I am not opposed to further labs and possibly TRT using self pay if it is going to finally give me my drive/confidence, sexual well being, and just life/identity in general back. Back when I thought this was all just in my head because of “minor depression” I remember telling my roommate that it feels like I am constantly in a half awake half asleep state of living and very few times from 21yrs-27yrs old did it feel like I was “fully awake” and “alive”. I didn’t start considering my hormones until channels like moreplatesmoredates on youtube starting gaining alot of popularity in 2021.

I know this post turned out to be mostly a rant, but I am open to anyone that wants to discuss anything I talked about or asked about above. Thanks in advance.

edit 1: I forgot to add in a question about the conversion of pg/mL to ng/dL. When you convert my Free test doesn’t it come out to 1.29ng/dL? That seems off to me.

edit 2: Just wanted to point out that I have been lifting for a combined total of 6ish or 7ish years. It would be more like 10 had I not stopped and started so many times. The last year and a half has been the most serious and dedicated stint of lifting for me. So going from 155 to 186 was not just from bulking, it was more like bulking from 170-186 as I had already often hit 175 at a lean body fat, just never over that prior to 2021. 155lbs was a low point when I was cutting and working lots of overtime.

Got my bloods done a few months ago and sent to the VA. They use Quest Diagnostics, which has a lower reference range than LabCorp. Your levels are better than mine and I was turned down as well - so long as your levels are within this reference range, you will probably be told you don’t need it.

Don’t mean to be a downer, just my experience.
^28 year old vet using VA healthcare

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This is correct. Most PCP or Endos will not attempt HRT if you are in range. I was less than half the lowest range so I was scripted and insurance covered. You need more comprehensive labs … period. But if you think HRT would be beneficial any Mens clinic will script you out of pocket with these levels.

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Thanks for your response. You aren’t coming off as a downer at all to me, and unfortunately I had assumed that that would be the end result of going to the VA. Though my Doc was super receptive to my concerns I had heard the VA and hormone optimization do not go hand in hand. Did you pursue the issue further outside of the VA?

I haven’t pursued any further. I have been spending time on this forum learning more for myself and trying to weigh the costs and benefits of going the route of hormone optimization.

I was on the fence for a while actually, but I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t want to stab myself 2x per week (at least) for the rest of my life. I DO want to go on a cycle at some point in the future, but I am not there yet. Pending my response to Test, I would assess going the route of HRT at that time

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So I guess a more specific question from me would be “are the ranges that quest diagnostics uses especially low compared to the average ranges I am seeing online?”. I know that question still isn’t great because no one knows exactly what I mean by “the ranges I am seeing online”.

While I understand that at the end of the day it comes down to whether or not I want to try and treat symptoms with my own money after doing the appropriate labs, it is still a little confusing to me that in some ranges I am considered dogshit low, and in other ranges I am normal. I’ve had a couple clinics recommended to me locally and this forum post isn’t about whether or not I want to pull the trigger. I am mostly trying to clear my head of all the numbers that have been floating around in it ever since I started doing research these last couple of weeks :crazy_face:

Also if it isn’t asking too much can you give me an idea of what less than half the low range was for you?

Also not sure what you mean here but no the lab ranges by quest are fine. They are based on their readings amongst average men in each age range. They may not bewhat you want to see but they are valid for “ their” test. Different lab companies may read higher or lower depending on their methods.

I don’t recall it’s been so long. I just remember I was almost literally half the low range of labcorps assay in free T.

You have to go by the lab company you choose to test with. You can’t cross compare with accuracy, only as a last resort.

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I know my questions aren’t being formed great, I’m not familiar with this subject, but you actually answered what I was wondering without me knowing it. I wasn’t aware that the ranges were specific to the test of each company. That makes perfect sense now. Thanks.

I was automatically assuming that the difference between various labs across different companies were the units of measurement given in the results, not the methods of measurement. Shows how little I know.

Dr. Eugene Shippen has 5 decades of experience prescribing TRT to men and over the years he noticed a subset group of men with great physiques that respond very well to TRT. He also noticed some men experiencing symptoms of low-T with normal testosterone levels.

There are so many areas about hormones that are ignored, like CAG repeat lengths or sensitivity to androgens, and things in the environment that can block hormones actions. The refeance ranges by itself is useless and any doctor focusing on only the numbers doesn’t get it and cannot claim to specilize in sex hormones without passing the laugh test.

Dr. Eugene Shippen found treating the symptoms is as or more important than treating solely on the numbers. The guidelines actually do not say you can’t treat above 300, actually is goes as far as to say you can treat up to 345, but some doctors that know better treat up to 400 and make a case for the insurance company to pay for it.

The thing is not many doctors will fight for their patients. As far as the VA for your TRT, government funded healthcare (VA/NHS) is the worst place to get TRT.

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Thanks for the response! Yeah personally I have 0% interest in what TRT will do to my physique and 100% interest on the psychogenic effects and how it will treat my symptoms. I’ll check out the video you linked.

I guess at the very least the VA was willing to do my labwork, so I’ll take what I can get. I’ll be digging more into what options I have after more labwork. I think I favor the idea of telehealth clinics and self administration over expensive in person clinics that might only administer shots once or twice a week tops.

Update:

I reached out for a consultation with an online clinic. Long story short I was disappointed when they firmly recommended 10 weeks of Clomid at 50mg EOD and .25 cc of HCG every other day and then do bloodwork again. The specialist promised that I would feel a 180 degree difference in how I feel but despite that I was hesitant and disappointed during the call and he could tell. I brought up concerns with Clomid but was assured it was the route we needed to go before evaluating further for the possibility of starting TRT. After reaching back out with more concerns on Clomid another specialist recommended Enclomid or Enclomiphene instead.

I’m thinking 50mg of Clomid or even Enclomid and .25cc of HCG EOD seems like a weird way to start my journey to possible TRT. Anyone have thoughts on this? I get that clomid raises Total and Free numbers for many men, but frankly, I don’t give a shit about raising numbers. I want to feel normal/good again, and so far I more often read that clomid does not achieve this. Also I have concerns on Clomid/Enclomid (which ever one is chosen) being immediately started with HCG and vice versa. This seems a little cookie cutter; how would you know what is doing what in particular patient if both are started simultaneously. Further more if the end goal is to “Ween me off” of this treatment and then I go back to feeling like shit (assuming I experience symptom relief on treatment as intended) it will have been 10 weeks of my life and my finances pissed away. For the record I am not flush for cash right now and this stuff is expensive as hell.

This seems to be what a lot of doctors fixate on because it’s what they do on a daily basis, review labs of all their patients and it can be a trap.

May I remind you of the all too familiar saying we hear time and time again on these forums, doctor says I’m in range → normal.

A lot of doctors don’t even pay attention to the symptoms.

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It’s very common

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It sounds like when treatment stops, that T levels would return to pre-treatment values. Do you know if this is the case?

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Yes, you’re propping your hormones up with medication, just like TRT would.

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So why would it be common to do this treatment for 10 weeks only? or is this a case of misinformed providers?
Maybe I’m missing something

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Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but it seems like for men under 30 (am 28) years old especially the clinics can be legally liable if they don’t take “steps” towards restoring natural testosterone levels. Without so much as directly and bluntly saying “You have to do this before I can prescribe testosterone” I got the impression that this was the case. Provider said things like “it’s company policy” and “in 10 weeks or less we will be able to determine if we need to move further with treatment”. It still boggles my mind that it is a hoop to jump through knowing that even if I get temporary symptom relief I will be stopping treatment and then returning back to pre-treatment state. The whole “jumpstarting” your natural test production seems a little tongue in cheek considering the symptoms have been going on for several years. It’s not like I cycled steroids (I have never) and need a pct. I may be thinking about this all the wrong way, but that was my immediate impression and why I was hesitant to even jump through this hoop.

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I hadn’t considered this to be the case honestly, but I could absolutely see it happening.

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Usually if a guy sees a normal doc (or some clinics) and say something to the effect of wanting kids at some point, the docs rule out TRT in favor of something like this that will “preserve fertility”. The idea of doing it for 10 weeks is just un-educated docs thinking of it more as a PCT than an actual long term therapy. But the reality is whether you pick TRT or a SERM, when you stop, you go back to where you started

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