[quote]tveddy wrote:
I always stretch before I lift for about 5-10 minutes and it makes me stronger. when I squat I have to stretch my chest to get under the bar, and when I bench I have to stretch my quads for my leg drive. 
[/quote]
Do you stretch your legs when you squat or just your chest?
Do you stretch your chest, delts, and tris when you bench of just your legs?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
If it was taking 3 hours and you still looked like crap, then I could see worrying.
I’ve known people who trained for 3 hours at a time who looked more developed than most here. Would I tell them to stop? Hell no.[/quote]
Exactly… the studies out of which the get in get out fast thing came from I believe said that hormone levels started dropping after the 45 minute mark after starting to LIFT. This started the recommendations to keep sessions under an hour and if you could to get out of there before the 45 minute mark.
I read this stuff a while ago so I’m not really clear on the details but i beliee that the drop in hormones is, in the long run, insignificant because you’ll get more progress out of hitting the muscles hard than from hurrying up and training in 45 minutes. Even then, Arnold and those guys would train for more than a few hours every day and they weren’t exactly small.
OP youre worried about spending 1 hour in the gym? What do you hate weight training?
…Why has no one mentioned that he doesn’t need to rest near 3 min. inbetween Calve, leg curl, and leg extension exercises?
[quote]N8Dawg wrote:
…Why has no one mentioned that he doesn’t need to rest near 3 min. inbetween Calve, leg curl, and leg extension exercises?[/quote]
I stated it(30sec) in my first post then reiterated it in my second.
[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
[quote]tveddy wrote:
I always stretch before I lift for about 5-10 minutes and it makes me stronger. when I squat I have to stretch my chest to get under the bar, and when I bench I have to stretch my quads for my leg drive. [/quote]
Do you stretch your legs when you squat or just your chest?
Do you stretch your chest, delts, and tris when you bench of just your legs?
[/quote]
I stretch my legs after I squat and I stretch my chest after I bench. Stretching =/= warmup. the reason I stretch my chest before I squat is so I can get under the bar
[quote]JLone wrote:
[quote]IronBP wrote:
So just so that I understand you, are you saying that 30s rest between sets is good for bodybuilding? [/quote]
Lifting weights, does not a bodybuilder make.
Read in Yoda Voice
30sec is good for people bitching about being at the gym too long.[/quote]
Let me rephrase the question: what is ideal? I’m not particularly in a rush to get out of the gym, but I’ve read a lot of people who’ve said that there’s no reason it should take you more than an hour to get your workout in. Well…it takes me more than an hour.
As no one else will be able to put in the work for you, no one can really tell you what will work the best for you. The most effective program for you is the one you can commit to. If 2 hours of lifting is enjoyable to you and you’re making gains then lift for two hours. If you need to get out of the gym faster do more work in a shorter time. There are plenty of ways to make things more intensive.
There’s plenty of studies that talk about the optimal time you should be in the gym, so take that into consideration. If you want more specific advice you may want to post what you’re actually doing so people don’t just say general shit like stop being a pussy or rest less.
agree with the others. stretching is for overweight housewives.
Dynamic warm up before lifting.
Stretching is important, and I think you should put away 2 sessions a week that is dedicated to strecthing(ie; go to a yoga class twice a week). But dont lift after you have stretched.
tweet
I would time your sets and rests as you stated while keeping the tempo the same except for those last few reps you knock out that you couldn’t get with the form your working with. By tempo I mean how fast you raise and lower the weights as well as keeping the rest period the same in between sets. I’m not necessarily for or against super strict or loose form just use whatever works but be honest with yourself and make sure your working the muscle you want to hit. Don’t take more then a 2-3 minute break between body parts as it will only waste time. Constantly strive to reduce the time your workout takes while keeping your weight used the same. This is a great form of progression and I would even argue a better one then just adding weight after your past a beginner stage if your goal is bodybuilding as your have stated. Once you are able to reduce your rest periods to 20-30 seconds try adding some weight.
I would stretch after your done with the workout. or bodypart. whichever you feel works better for you
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]plateau wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]plateau wrote:
I have seen no real evidence that it will impact on strenth, [/quote]
Then you don’t get out much.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/89/3/1179.full
I’ve been posting about this since I was still in dental school. I’ve posted more studies than you can count on the subject in that time period. This is just the first that popped up. I don’t plan on wasting hours redoing the same shit.
The same is seen in cardiac muscle as well. Stretching decreases strength potential.[/quote]
Nice attitude as always man!
Additionaly how does not going out correlate with staying in reading studies? Try again.
It involved a lot more stretching than anyone is doing, 13 stretches of 135 s each over 33 mins. Who is doing that?
Am not asking you to provide any further studies so calm down dear[/quote]
Dude, you are flat out wrong on this. You can cry about my “attitude” all you wish. If my goal is optimal growth in strength and muscle mass, I am keeping stretching far removed from weight lifting. The first studies showing this were done in the 90’s. Don’t get mad because you missed it until now.[/quote]
No one is crying, or you use a special dictionary.
The “first” study being the first that you posted? Don’t see that being terribly relevant, for the points already raised.
Not missed, not everybody should read summaries for studies. Not everybody is good at drawing conclusions.
For the record - as you have special reading powers, you may notice the use of MAY in my original post. To make it very clear (for you), I don’t think everybody needs to statically stretch every muscle pre workout.
[quote]JLone wrote:
[quote]plateau wrote:
I did read a study that observed the same study it was done on a 1RPM on leg extension, stretching was done immediately before the leg extension. No idea who it was by though sorry…
I have seen no real evidence that it will impact on strenth, if someone is spending time stretching and doing less strength work as a consequence then you can argue the point I guess.[/quote]
Evidence? I thought the idea was widely accepted at this point.
Why would a weight lifter want to make his joints hypermobile then load them?[/quote]
Evidence - I kind of expected me (openly admitting) I can’t recall the study to highlight that I don’t have it. Was that not clear to you?
Why - it may be useful for rehab, it may be useful for sedentary population. Again, not everybody and not every muscle. Obviously I would rather be lifting than going through mobility work.
If you stretch regularly throughout the week, like when you’re being lazy and watching tv or before you go to bed. Its less necessary preworkout.
Before I workout I warm up with the range of motion, no need to get a deeper stretch than that.
Or maybe light stretching before something like a squat but still no need to try to force yourself to go to new lengths.
Imo stretching post workout is very valuable because the muscles your stretching are already warmed up. Heard you can tear them easily this way but I doubt it.
There are plenty of muscles you hammer that you don’t stretch, and they are fine.
This is all my personal opinion, plus if I stretch my chest hard or between sets I definitely feel weaker same with squats.
[quote]plateau wrote:
[quote]JLone wrote:
[quote]plateau wrote:
I did read a study that observed the same study it was done on a 1RPM on leg extension, stretching was done immediately before the leg extension. No idea who it was by though sorry…
I have seen no real evidence that it will impact on strenth, if someone is spending time stretching and doing less strength work as a consequence then you can argue the point I guess.[/quote]
Evidence? I thought the idea was widely accepted at this point.
Why would a weight lifter want to make his joints hypermobile then load them?[/quote]
Evidence - I kind of expected me (openly admitting) I can’t recall the study to highlight that I don’t have it. Was that not clear to you?
Why - it may be useful for rehab, it may be useful for sedentary population. Again, not everybody and not every muscle. Obviously I would rather be lifting than going through mobility work.[/quote]
Oh, OK. Rehab and the sedentary. Got it.
Since I was originally talking about stretching before weight lifting you confused me.
[quote]JLone wrote:
[quote]plateau wrote:
[quote]JLone wrote:
[quote]plateau wrote:
I did read a study that observed the same study it was done on a 1RPM on leg extension, stretching was done immediately before the leg extension. No idea who it was by though sorry…
I have seen no real evidence that it will impact on strenth, if someone is spending time stretching and doing less strength work as a consequence then you can argue the point I guess.[/quote]
Evidence? I thought the idea was widely accepted at this point.
Why would a weight lifter want to make his joints hypermobile then load them?[/quote]
Evidence - I kind of expected me (openly admitting) I can’t recall the study to highlight that I don’t have it. Was that not clear to you?
Why - it may be useful for rehab, it may be useful for sedentary population. Again, not everybody and not every muscle. Obviously I would rather be lifting than going through mobility work.[/quote]
Oh, OK. Rehab and the sedentary. Got it.
Since I was originally talking about stretching before weight lifting you confused me. [/quote]
Cute dog, I want.
No sorry I did mean pre-lifting can be useful - my earlier post was went to be a couple of examples where it could help. Using a sample of n=1 for the sedentary, mon-fri I’m at a desk, my hips get very tight - squatting to depth is not easy, statically stretching hips, cows and abductors helps me. This does NOT mean I do not do dynamic mobility, or do not ramp up weights, or use a nasty hockey ball on trouble spots.
Trying to stop biting but it works good enough for Joe Defranco to have some static stretching as part of his athlete’s mobility/warm-up. I don’t think he wants his athletes to be weak or small.
I have done the no static pre workout thing when I was younger (I can get a bid OCD), but it wasn’t right for me for more “complex” moves. What I mean is I need to for exercises like squats but not if I was using mainly machines.
I hope that makes some sense…
If you dont want to be in the gym long then I would say do a more of a high intensity type of workout where you only have one all-out set each exercise.
As for the static stretching argument - Static Stretchings for dorks unless your doing it to be able to get into position for a movement such as shoulder stretching for the squat or leg stretching for the deadlift
however mobility drills are awesome such as the agile 8
Thanks for the input, everyone.
Re: stretching - I’m 38 and chronically tight. The stretching I do is mainly for my hip flexors and my shoulders. Years of running (I was a competetive distance runner and avid triathlete) and sitting in desk chairs has made my hip flexors very tight. I also drum about an hour a day, which puts some stress on the shoulders and tightens them up.
I’m not looking to be flexible for the sake of being flexible, but rather simply to be able to do the lifts safely. I’ve managed to work out a lot of knots that were bugging me on chest days, but even in my last workout I stopped incline dumbbells after just 3 reps as it just didn’t feel good and moved on to cables instead.
It sounds like the consensus is that the bottom line is to simply get a good pump and that the rest period isn’t too critical provided that I’m getting in some good work. Probably better to shorten up the rest rather than to skip body parts.
[quote]IronBP wrote:
Thanks for the input, everyone.
Re: stretching - I’m 38 and chronically tight. The stretching I do is mainly for my hip flexors and my shoulders. Years of running (I was a competetive distance runner and avid triathlete) and sitting in desk chairs has made my hip flexors very tight. I also drum about an hour a day, which puts some stress on the shoulders and tightens them up.
I’m not looking to be flexible for the sake of being flexible, but rather simply to be able to do the lifts safely. I’ve managed to work out a lot of knots that were bugging me on chest days, but even in my last workout I stopped incline dumbbells after just 3 reps as it just didn’t feel good and moved on to cables instead.
It sounds like the consensus is that the bottom line is to simply get a good pump and that the rest period isn’t too critical provided that I’m getting in some good work. Probably better to shorten up the rest rather than to skip body parts.[/quote]
noone is saying ust get a good pump,You IMO should be training with heavy weights, just get more out of your workout with less, in order to save time. And static stretching is used specifically for increaseing flexability thats why your supposed to push further when you can and keep doing that. If your chronically tight and need to be loosened up before you train mobility drills will do that a lot better and a lot faster
If you don’t want to be in the gym long, try HFS.