Far be it from me to break-up the mud fight going on here, but I am just wondering. Has anyone here either pro-war or anti-war done anything the actually help? Examples: become a CERT volunteer, donate blood to the Red Cross, donate a few pennys to some of the relief agencies. Anything at all?
Best of Luck.
One final word from Cupcake…all this serious mudslinging is having a negative effect on my mental Feng Shui…
Baby, Baby, Babydoll…
Where did the initial inspiration and cleverness of your original 2 posts go? are you in a rush, pressed for time and unable to fire up the creative juices? Too bad, you showed some real promise. As you should know (Although I assume you haven’t bothered to read many other posts or discover exactly “what” a T-Man is, you seems to just want to come here and insult those that you don’t/can’t understand) a real T-man appreciates the spunk and fire and independent thought demonstrated by your original posts but now it seems as though you are not “getting it”. I know many of my T-Men brethren would not agree but your presence here could well be a pleasant diversion, as bashing poor Say for his views gets old and someone new and full of piss and vinegar might prove to be a breath of fresh air. I would however ask that you make the attempt to “get it”.
Some of these post here are from those that believe the “Un-Invasion” of Iraq will commence as soon as they are persuasive enough in their arguments in an O/T forum of a BODY BUILDING/STRENGTH web site. Their relentless commitment to this leads to the distressing idea that they really believe it.
Some of these posts are from repressed comedians who enjoy the mayhem that ensues when they “converse” with like-minded people with whom the very least bond is an affection for iron if not politics.
Some of these posts are from those that the first type of poster pisses off.
Learn to tell the difference please.
As for Quotes? read my posts from the beginning, I hope you will see that no, they don’t support my argument (usually) and they usually are chosen for no other reason than they contain a word that was used in the post regardless how important or relevant. You seem like a smart girl (wrong but smart) so I’m sure you can see the pattern. It’s really just to make the post more worth reading, nothing more nothing less, sometime funny, sometimes not. You are not this obtuse, so why post to the contrary?
I am curious as to where you will fit in here as those that fit nowhere will soon be gone and all of this banter will be for naught but I hope that you have more substance than curses and one strong opinion. This is supposed to be fun…right?
“The silliest woman can manage a clever man; but it needs a very clever woman to manage a fool”
~ Rudyard Kipling
So I decided to take a break to see what you all had to say.
BFA: I wont dignify your statement but I’ll say this much~~I never involved ur family in my comments. Note: All I did was reply in kind when u & cupcake took hits at my sexuality & appearance. So say whatever u want about my family b/c it doesn’t change a thing. Up until this point I never wished you any real harm…but you are clearly vermin & deserve to rot in hell. Meantime, enjoy your life of banality and hatred.
Chrismcl: I didn’t know there was such a thing as selective eyesight…or can’t you read? Most of the “personal attacks” are against me. & I’m sorry but I’m no artist…I can’t create pics like that. If you enter the words “monkey wedding pic” in a web browser, u’ll find the site I got that pic from. Find something else about me to pick on, k? & Don’t talk about level-headed argument~All I’ve seen you do so far is post pics & attempt to insult/discredit me.
Older Lifter: Not that it really matters or helps much but yes, I gave blood last week.
"Far be it from me to break-up the mud fight going on here, but I am just wondering. Has anyone here either pro-war or anti-war done anything the actually help? Examples: become a CERT volunteer, donate blood to the Red Cross, donate a few pennys to some of the relief agencies. Anything at all?
Best of Luck. "
Yes I did, but believe me you don’t want to know what it was.
Unfortunately this thread has brought out the worse example of forum interaction, but I do understand that this is a very emotional topic. I originally posted some links about Iraq from various news agencies. Baby Doll, if you get a chance, read a couple of them. Start with the first one from PBS; it is an interesting interview about Iraq and Terrorism. I ask you to read them not because I think they will change your mind, but it will give you some food for thought from a different perspective.
Roy you mentioned how the US put Saddam in power in the past. I don?t believe, however, that two wrongs make a right. Yes, it may have been wrong to give him weapons to fight Iran, but that does not mean we should support him now.
Additionally, I would like to just offer a historical perspective to this. During the 80s when we were supporting Iraq, we were near the end of the cold war, but it was still not over. People today, particularly my age (25) and younger, may not be aware of the reality of the cold war. There were literally thousands of nuclear ballistic missiles pointed at every city in the US. Two decade earlier, Khrushchev (the leader of the Soviet Union) went in front of the UN and banged a shoe on the podium declaring to the US “we will burry you!” When you consider that we were literally racing with the soviets for the survival for our way of life, perhaps some of the things we did (like supporting Saddam) may seem wrong now, but at the time we thought we were doing the best thing for the survival of the American way of life. Have no doubt that if the Soviet Union could have cut off our supply of oil by gaining favor with every Middle Eastern nation, they would have. Unfortunately we learned a tough lesson; the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.
Ultimately, whether the United States made Saddam into the person he is today does not change the fact that he is a ruthless dictator with a history of invasion and imperialism, genocide, and oppression. The question is do we want to do anything about it? Do we want to risk that he will not seek revenge on the US for our defense of Kuwait and our support of Israel? This is where opinion varies.
My opinion is this; I do not wish to gamble on the safety and well being of the American people on the benevolence of a dictator with a history of genocide, rape and oppression.
BabyDoll: “My father and two of my cousins were killed in the Gulf War.”
BD, I am truly sorry for your losses. There were 370 casualities from all 39 coalition countries during the Persian Gulf War. I believe that 191 of the 370 were from the United States. And 3 of those 191 were from your family? It seems incredulous and certainly grievously unfair that one family had to suffer 1-1/2% of the whole country’s human losses in a 38 day war. I would be antiwar if I were in your shoes also. I hope your Navy brother fares well.
Anderson,
That is an excellent point. My point may have been a bit misunderstood. I am not suggesting that Saddam “not be dealt with.” He clearly is a monster. What kind of sub-human could send children to their deaths on suicide bombing missions? I am trying to look at the bigger picture of how we have created these problems for ourselves by tampering with weaker nations (like Iran in the 1950’s), and we are reaping our rewards by having to deal with the Saddam’s in the world. I don’t suggest to have the solution. I certainly would not want to be president right now.
“…perhaps some of the things we did (like supporting Saddam) may seem wrong now, but at the time we thought we were doing the best thing for the survival of the American way of life.”
This is exactly what I am talking about. Our actions seem to have no long term thinking involved. What I would like to see is the US taking responsibility for what we have done, at least verbally. When people lose their loved ones in something like what we are doing right now, whether we are justified in our presence there or not, we are creating the next generation of terrorists. They are just being humans… if someone killed my children I would have nothing left in this world to lose or care for, and would therefore be vulnerable to populist leaders like Saddam or Osama.
Don’t get the idea that I am anti-military by any means. I was in favor of what has been referred to as “aggressive containment.” I think that we should have watched Saddam AND the other members of the “axis” and quickly mobilize to contain their efforts to create weapons of mass destruction. Only as a reaction though. There are several things that bother me with our current situation.
First, with Bush’s blithering statement referring to the “axis,” they (as I mentioned in my previous post) all began their rush to arms. We are over committed in Iraq right now, when we should be in N. Korea and a few other nations as well. N. Korea is run by a man who is completely, diagnosibly insane. He has nukes. Even if we were to stop everything right now and mobilize forces to Korea, we would be too late to contain that situation. I just feel like Bush (or whoever the real decision makers are in this situation) is repeating history by our current actions.
Instead we now have most of our forces committed to Iraq, dwindling support from our (former) allies, and the other countries on our “watch list” that are watching what we are doing realize that they are next, so they have some time to stock up. Just because we CAN doesn’t be that we SHOULD. Bullying Iraq only tells everyone that we can and most likely will, whether they cooperate or not.
I know that it is really popular to rag on France and Germany right now, but being a businessman myself and having some moderate lobbying experience, I have learned that the most effective way to get things done is to do it with the support of many. I am sure that the bridges are not permanently burned. It just shows a gross lack of political savvy from our president. Frankly, I find it amusing that France is coming down so hard on us for what we are doing with Iraq when they have their own little war going on in the Ivory Coast. They are being complete hypocrites. Oh well, that is another subject entirely.
I just hope that whatever we do, we consider history and try to think of the long term. Now that we are committed I am fully in support of the troops, and wish them a swift, successful campaign, and a safe return home. My house will certainly be a lot less tense when that happens.
I have a few minutes.
Avoids Roids ~~ I note the sarcasm in your extending your condolensces. Maybe it sounds incredulous to you. Or maybe I just dont sound like a grieving daughter? Whatever.
fyi: I have a large extended family and one of the two cousins I mentioned was married into the family. Does that help you make any sense of it, you conceited prick? I wasn’t friendly with either cousin…that’s irrelevant…But my father was my world and if you want to shove numbers in my face and call me a liar, go the fuck ahead b/c nothing any of us say will change a thing…Sit on your high horse and smugly pat yourself on the back for recognizing WHY I am anti-war…go ahead and think that I haven’t agonized over the shitty cards my family was dealt.
And perhaps your memory is failing sir. I think you mistook me for John P…because I dont have a “Navy Brother” that was his brother. My brother is mercifully at home (& i’m starting to wonder why he comes here and associates with archaic neanderthals like you). I said two of my friends are in the war now.
Cupcake, I shall deal with you later.
Anderson, I’ll look into what you suggested. In the meantime, please try to enlighten your pro-war brethren as some of them also seem to have dwindling capacity to support their arguments with anything beyond insults.
I’m going to go locate the names and addresses of all the Horse trainers in CT.
Anderson,
That is an excellent point. My point may have been a bit misunderstood. I am not suggesting that Saddam “not be dealt with.” He clearly is a monster. What kind of sub-human could send children to their deaths on suicide bombing missions? I am trying to look at the bigger picture of how we have created these problems for ourselves by tampering with weaker nations (like Iran in the 1950’s), and we are reaping our rewards by having to deal with the Saddam’s in the world. I don’t suggest to have the solution. I certainly would not want to be president right now.
“…perhaps some of the things we did (like supporting Saddam) may seem wrong now, but at the time we thought we were doing the best thing for the survival of the American way of life.”
This is exactly what I am talking about. Our actions seem to have no long term thinking involved. What I would like to see is the US taking responsibility for what we have done, at least verbally. When people lose their loved ones in something like what we are doing right now, whether we are justified in our presence there or not, we are creating the next generation of terrorists. They are just being humans… if someone killed my children I would have nothing left in this world to lose or care for, and would therefore be vulnerable to populist leaders like Saddam or Osama.
Don’t get the idea that I am anti-military by any means. I was in favor of what has been referred to as “aggressive containment.” I think that we should have watched Saddam AND the other members of the “axis” and quickly mobilize to contain their efforts to create weapons of mass destruction. Only as a reaction though. There are several things that bother me with our current situation.
First, with Bush’s blithering statement referring to the “axis,” they (as I mentioned in my previous post) all began their rush to arms. We are over committed in Iraq right now, when we should be in N. Korea and a few other nations as well. N. Korea is run by a man who is completely, diagnosibly insane. He has nukes. Even if we were to stop everything right now and mobilize forces to Korea, we would be too late to contain that situation. I just feel like Bush (or whoever the real decision makers are in this situation) is repeating history by our current actions.
Instead we now have most of our forces committed to Iraq, dwindling support from our (former) allies, and the other countries on our “watch list” that are watching what we are doing realize that they are next, so they have some time to stock up. Just because we CAN doesn’t be that we SHOULD. Bullying Iraq only tells everyone that we can and most likely will, whether they cooperate or not.
I know that it is really popular to rag on France and Germany right now, but being a businessman myself and having some moderate lobbying experience, I have learned that the most effective way to get things done is to do it with the support of many. I am sure that the bridges are not permanently burned. It just shows a gross lack of political savvy from our president. Frankly, I find it amusing that France is coming down so hard on us for what we are doing with Iraq when they have their own little war going on in the Ivory Coast. They are being complete hypocrites. Oh well, that is another subject entirely.
I just hope that whatever we do, we consider history and try to think of the long term. Now that we are committed I am fully in support of the troops, and wish them a swift, successful campaign, and a safe return home. My house will certainly be a lot less tense when that happens.
Avoidsroids, that was a stinger.
It’s time someone gave this thread it’s last rites and we shall speak of it nevermore…(of course some dink will still post to it…)
Being responsible for this degradation in a very small way (sure I said “Hillbilly Lesbian” and maybe “Troll With Tits” was attributable to me as well but I MEANT THEM IN THE NICEST POSSIBLE WAY!
It would be unfortunate if we just buried this Fu**er and forgot some of the High (Low) lights, such as…
“Y’all can kiss my ass!!!” …(how to win friends and influence people?)
"for such a young ding dong. Ewwwwww. "…(your new tag!)
“why don?t you go lick your horses’ balls…wanker. Is that profane enough for you, sir?”…(Why, yes it was, thank you)
“I can’t believe I’m talking to a desert (is ‘cupcake’ a pet name from your parole officer or your sugar daddy?)”…(Inspired and Funny, nice work!)
“Oh, my god, does that make me a lesbian too?” …(Why do I always worry about this?)
“I hear you hermaphroditic, crab-infested cave-people have it hard as it is”…(A new cause perhaps for Sally Struthers?)
“and flossing creamed corn residue out of your dentures…”…(It’s much funnier, 'cause I LOVE creamed corn)
“…tired so go see your gynaecologist, get that dripping looked after and have a nice life”…(Maybe that was mean but SHE STARTED IT!)
“Actually whore im…”…(This sentence could be finished with any number of things but the beginning would still be harsh, I like it, it gets the point across)
" I mean what, there’s no commonly accepted social protocol on Trans-Gender, Hermaphradic relations anymore? Hell in a hand basket my friends, Hell in a hand basket… "…(That WAS funny right?..right?)
“Nice to see the level of debate has truly sky-rocketed in terms of scope.
and complex analysis”…(That’s exactly the kind of post I thought I was contributing to. You can imagine my shock when I went back through and read what was really posted…shock, just complete and utter shock.)
“Guess i’ve seen so much bad shit i just aint much of a people person anymore”…(Hey, you’re OUR kind of person BFA!)
“Unfortunately this thread has brought out the worse example of forum interaction”…(Which brings us to this point here.)
The End (I Hope!)
“If we cannot now end our differences, at least we can help make the world safe for diversity”
~ John F. Kennedy
BD will be happy to know i saved her pic and have been posting it on various adult meeting place forums as “easy in ill.”
Toodles!!!
hahaha this was too funny…
-“Im gonna follow cupcakes lead and stop responding. For real this time.” -BFA, 1:06 pm today
-"BD will be happy to know i saved her pic and have been posting it on various adult meeting place forums as “easy in ill.” -BFA, 7:23 pm today
Thanks BFA! That’ll fascillitate my search. What would you say if I were to inform you that I’m a minor? I hope you’re fully aware of the penalty for creating & distributing child pornography, officer. hehehe!! It looks like I REALLY got under your skin, huh? You were the easiest one of all! LoL Cheers, spineless little maggot. =)
What kind of cop are u, anyway?
BD, You read sarcasm into my post. I did not write sarcastically, poorly perhaps, but not sarcastic intentionally. Yes, you’re right. I couldn’t tell that was actually a post from John P. It’s an age thing I guess. Right now, after working all night (and losing) to save a colicky horse, I am too tired to argue so, like some others, I will abandon this thread and hope to meet you on a less controversial plane some day.
Oh, and one more thing…
What was I going to say?
Oh Yeah, “Help I’ve fallen and can’t get up!”
If you must know im a detective. Your no tnaked so it aint porn, and i knew you were a minor the whole time.
You dont really bother me i just get bored and cant help myself.
Speakin of work im on second today so i gots to get ready.
What does 9/11 have to do with Iraq? Everything, people. This war with Iraq is not an isolated incident. People need to start paying attention to this “Axis of Evil” talk and realize it’s not just name calling. According to former CIA director Woolsey, we are in a World War comparable to the 2 big ones and the Cold War.
(CNN.com - Ex-CIA director: U.S. faces 'World War IV' - Apr. 3, 2003)
Those muslim extremists have been waging war against us for years, we just didn’t realize it until 9/11. Europe and Canada apparently still don’t realize it. I would expect Russia to be more understanding. They’ve had problems in Afghanistan and Chechnya for decades with the same people we’re now fighting.
Did Iraq cause 9/11? No. Are they linked with Al Qaeda, I don’t know. But these are all part of the same problem. Our dependence on oil factors in, our support for Israel factors in.
So where does North Korea fit into this? They seem to be an anomaly. So who is next on the list after Iraq? I don’t know, but you can bet this thing won’t end in Baghdad.
I’m a newbie to this forum so forgive my ignorance, but I was wondering something…Do you all just hate Muslim people? Is that another reason you are either backing or protesting the war?
Please don’t get mad and yell at me now, it’s a sincere question.
I’ve been getting a lot of these chain emails lately about how a
soldier brings us freedom and protects our rights as Americans and
yada yada ya. I’m going to say that I’m sick of people painting the
protestors as unAmerican (if there is such a thing… the term itself
smacks of totalitarianism).
Protestors have brought us women’s rights,
civil rights, racial equality (that we still strive for), the Boston Tea Party,
labor laws and standards, consumer rights, rights for the handicapped,
freedom of speech and a slew of other rights that we would not have
if people weren’t pissed off and didn’t take to the streets. So can that shit.
The fact is that this war is about oil. It’s plain and simple. How can this NOT be
so?!?! Filter the bullshit for a second. We have an administration lousy
with oil men with pals in the industry. Hell, the VP and Pres were BOTH
oil company CEOs! Iraq has the second largest oil reserves IN THE WORLD!
Second only to Saudi Arabia. What better than to install a puppet
regime to give us good oil rates and that may wean us off the Saudi tit!
Plenty of people stand to get extremely rich once we start reaping the
benefits of our war. We get to have a ton of oil without kowtowing
to a shady regime in Riyadh.
Also, as far as Al Qaeda and Saddam. Who is one of Saddam’s biggest
allies? Russia. Who did many members of Al Qaeda fight a war against
in Afghanistan? Russia. Saddam’s idol is Josef Stain who ruled which
country? Russia. Did Osama and Saddam have a few beers and let
bygones be bygones, even after Osama has openly called Saddam and
his regime “infidels” (a term he usually reserves for his pals in the US)?
Not too likely.
Just turn down the jingoism and nationalism for a second and look at the
facts. Somebody point out the elephant in the room. Where are the
WMD? Where are the tons of VX? Who gave it to him in the first place?
What the hell where we doing when he was using the shit in the 70s and
80s?!?! Looking the other way, that’s where. Put your flags down and think
people!!! Excercise just a little crticism of the government and you’ll
see through the bullshit. I love America, but if you think I trust the government
you’ve got another thing coming.
Hey everyone. Sorry to be out of the loop for so long. I had midterms.
There is way too much to reply to all in one go. BabyDoll and others, thanks for keeping the thread alive, all.
The last thing I read stuck in my mind the most so I’ll address that first:
Angel Eyes: I don’t hate Muslims. I actually have many Muslim friends, they are generally a very warm, compassionate bunch?It’s just there are whackos in every religion. We can’t judge the whole for the shitty actions of a few who misinterpret and mangle parts of their religious texts to pathetically try to justify killing others. All Muslims aren’t bad just like all Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, etc are not bad. It’s a mistake to generalize about any religion.
Now, I see T-mag is now allowing pedophiles like Baby Faced Assassin to roam free. I hope they realize that many minors do log on to the site.
BFA: I’m sorry man but it looks like you crossed the line from petty name-calling into something that is actually criminal. You are one sick, sick pervert and I hope someday some criminal sticks a baton up your ass. Corrupt cops are just as bad, if not worse, than the criminals they arrest. Hell, I doubt you’re a cop?You can’t be. Cops are heroic men who put their lives on the line every day. No cop goes around posting pictures of minors to attract more pedophiles! You are a disgrace to all men.
BabyDoll: thanks for sending me more pics, sweets. Don’t listen to what any of them say, you’re pretty hot?And believe me over them, cause none of them have seen the whole pic. Sorry I went off and left you fending for yourself with this pack of hyenas (excluding those who have been respectful, I don’t mean you.) And I’m sorry to hear about your Dad. Ignore those who try to hit at your weak spots. Actually doll, it doesn’t look like you needed my help at all. You did a damn fine job on your own. Give me a call if you can lata.
Roy: I gotta tip my hat to you, man. You appear to be the only guy on here who fully knows the truth and has the balls to tell it as it is. And you said it with class. Nice.
US=Good Guys: “By the way, one vial of anthrax could kill everyone in Washington. He had 8,000 LITERS in 1998”
Do you know WHERE Saddam got his Anthrax? The US supplied him with it in the Iraq-Iran War to aid him in destroying the Iranians. He didn’t use it then, he didn’t use it in the Gulf War, and he hasn’t used it yet in this war. In fact, it is debatable whether he has the Anthrax anymore and if so, whether he realizes the terrible consequences of using it. I think both BabyDoll and Roy Batty have touched on this subject of Saddam being a product of the US sticking it’s nose in, acting officious, then leaving and looking the other way as the monster they created runs amok. Saddam needs to be killed. I think we’re all agreed on that?So please don’t reply to this, saying it doesn’t matter where Saddam got his funding/weapons/power & the imp. thing is to wipe him out, acting like you’re offended, pretending you think I or anyone else who is against the war is actually in favor of keeping him in power.
One little bit of info I wanted to share earlier: National Security Advisor-Condoleeza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Vice President Dick Cheney & of course President George Bush?NONE OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE EVER BEFORE SEEN THE BACKSIDE OF A GUN. Meaning they know nothing about war and how ugly it is. They are all civilians. Bush actually dodged the draft for the Vietnam War. You trust these people to head a war? Tsk?The only one who knew a damn thing about war is Colin Powel and he was against it. Now his hands are tied and he has no choice but to support Bush.
Jinx Remover: What I said to Roy above applies to you, too…I just don’t want to assume you are a guy and tell you you have balls. But that was an inspired piece…Thanks!