Hell Is Real And Souls Go There

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
102

Ohhh, Maiden 3:16…I loved Maiden back in the day BTW…'Survived their ‘Number Of The Beast’ tour
in back in some other era…'been there, done that…Is there a Metal Band I HAVEN’T seen??..I don’t
think so…heh.

As far as the Pagan Gods similarities, It would behoove you to read author Ronald H. Nash
on that one…he breaks it down amazingly well and debunks all that speculation in very erudite
fashion…That’s all I’m giving you lest I cast too many pearls…Don’t try to poke holes in the Texts because
your gonna run into a brick wall every single time…I know, I tried for years…'can’t do it…good luck
though…seriously, if you come up with any huge, original revelation that you find foolproof, airtight,
and undeniable debunking Christianity, I’m all ears.

6, 66…''The Number Of The BEAST!!!“…Eddieeeeee!!!.. WOOOOOOOOO!!!”
Damn Eddie was freaky…I see that mascot has gotten bigger and more elaborate over the years.

103

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Christians, Muslims etc will NEVER believe their theory of creation to be false no matter what evidence there is against it.
[/quote]

Because there has never been any indisputable proof against it. You have any?
[/quote]

Gods born of a virgin:
Augustus
Adonis
Korbyas
Osiris
Tammuz
Krishna
Perseus
Zoroaster
Dionysus
Mithras
Buddha
Jesus

Jesus happens to be the most recent of the gods born of a virgin. Now this may not be indisputable evidence to you, but the fact is that the story of Jesus shares many similarities with other gods that predate him. So it would stand to reason that Jesus is a myth heavily influence by the myths of the past. Any evidence against this?
[/quote]

My question had nothing to do with Jesus being born of a virgin, but since you bring it up. this proof does not mean that Jesus was not born of a virgin. Just means that other claim to have been born of a virgin also. Too many prophecies of the Messiah were found completed in Jesus. Were they made up is hard to tell, but millions of people have died for this Man. People do not just willingly die for a lie. Of the 12 disciples, 10 were martyred for their faith, one hung himself because he betrayed the Messiah, and the other took care of Jesus’ Mother. Others say it was all about money and power. The disciples were poor just read the book of Acts. Everything they had was given to them. In fact Paul was a tent maker for the Roman Empire. That is how he got his citizenship as a Roman.

My question had to do with evidence or proof that creation is wrong. I wanted to know what your proof that creation did not happen the way the Bible said it happen. I personally do not buy into the notion that the 7 days are 24 hour periods. Push and I differ on this. Could it be that way yes. This is not the point of this discussion though.

I have seen the scientific theories about how the world came into existence, and I see it jiving with the Creation story in the Bible. In this scientific theory there are so many possible outcomes and everything lining up perfectly that without God we would not be here. If the earth had been a couple hundred miles closer or farther from the sun (no liquid water), if the earth had not collected enough mass (magnetic field without it we would have ended up like Mars), if the moon was larger or smaller (our orbit and the tilt of our earth for seasons and tides), if Jupiter’s gravity was not so powerful to pull in asteroids and comets (we would have more and more collisions), and on, and on, and on. This is the reason for the watch factory story. It was not by chance, but by a divine hand we are here.
[/quote]

The main difference I see between the scientific theories of our existence and the religious belief in a creator is that the former comes to their belief through observation and reason and the latter comes to their belief through blind faith in the ancient texts passed down to them by their parents (in most cases.) I wouldn’t say creationism is wrong, just that is unproven. No more proven than evolution. To go around saying people will suffer in hell for eternity because they don’t believe in a certain theory of creation is asinine IMO. Could there be a creator? I certainly am not ruling it out. Is the creator the one described in the Bible, Quran, Torah, etc.? About as probable as Jedi’s using the force in a galaxy far far away.[/quote]

At least you are not ruling it out. Just so you know the Torah and the Old Testament in the Bible are the same, unless you are using a Catholic Bible and they have 7 extra books that are added. To all the Catholics yes I know the argument you guys have about the Apocrypha.

About the Jedi’s that is fantasy and the George Lucas even says that. Now the Bible the people in it sure do seem more historical than many of the myths that people like to compare to the Bible. People that have PhDs in literature have read the Bible and state the Bible does not read like a myth, but as a historical text.
[/quote]

The religious texts of ancient Egypt and the Sumerians read like historical text, as well as most any other religion. If there is a creator, the chances it fits snugly into any of these religious beliefs is no more likely for one than the other.[/quote]

Then why has those religions not stood the test of time? The Bible was written over a period of 1500 years by 39 authors. No other religion can make those claims. Usually it is only one author during their life time or shorter.
[/quote]

The Christian Bible (what survives of it after Nicaea) was written over a period of a couple hundred years by a handful of writers. The Hebrew Bible is older by far, making Judaism a religion that had stood the test of time longer than Christianity, and without the thousands of splinterings into sects and sub-sects that Christianity has. Islam, too, is now nearly 1500 years old, and yes, you can say that the Qur’an borrows from earlier sources, but the same can be said from those earlier sources.

The Christ story borrows plenty of elements from Greek myth, particularly Heracles and Dionysos (which was itself borrowed from the Egyptian Horus myth), as well as the Zoroastrian stories of Mithra. The entire book of Matthew has some fascinating parallels to the Egyptian book of the Dead, and the book of Job and story of Noah parallels far earlier stories from Greek and Sumerian mythology.

So you can say that the old Akkadian and Sumerian and Babylonian and Greek and Egyptian religions did indeed stand the test of time. We still worship the same gods as they did, only with new names.

You see, the theory of evolution also applies to religion. Some religions go extinct, but not before passing a few of their genes on to other religions, which then continue to evolve and speciate. We just don’t always see it happening because the time scale is so long.

104

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

Yes this is what I believe.

[/quote]

Then you have faith. And yet faith is something you are here ridiculing.

Bottom line is you have faith. I have faith. Everyone has faith.

In something.

Word to the wise: if you don’t want someone ridiculing your faith you might want to practice what you preach.

Now your response might be, “Yeah, but my faith makes more sense because…blah…blah…blah” and that’s fine. But don’t play the game that your “belief” is more plausible because faith is not needed. It is.

Yes, you could because you have to depend on the opinions of mere mortals…which incidentally is what you show scorn for to those on the other side of the issue.

You would if you “believed,” i.e., had faith, that indeed that was the case.

Your belief/faith just happens not to include this. Fine. That doesn’t make your belief more true.
[/quote]

I don’t think blind faith and belief in the benefits of observation, reason, and measurement are one in the same. Maybe you do, that is fine.

EDIT: And yes, I guess my belief in the benefits of reason, observation, and measurement “just so happens” not to include the eternal torture of those that believe otherwise.

106

Okay, here’s an open question to our religious members: How would you convince followers of other religions that yours was the true faith, and theirs was hokum? Seriously interested, NOT trying to cause shitstorm.

107

[quote]Bod-of-Phwoar wrote:
Okay, here’s an open question to our religious members: How would you convince followers of other religions that yours was the true faith, and there’s was hokum? Seriously interested, NOT trying to cause shitstorm.[/quote]

FADE OUT.

FADE IN, ON SHITSTORM.

108

Wow. A question pops into your head, and it sounds so rational until you see it on the screen.

109


LOL

110

[quote]Bod-of-Phwoar wrote:
Wow. A question pops into your head, and it sounds so rational until you see it on the screen.[/quote]

Haha. No, it’s a fantastic question. It really is. It’s something everyone who thinks they’re demonstrably “correct”–on any subject–should be able and willing to do, mechanically.

I was commenting upon the fact that there are few things that don’t become “shitstorms” on the topic of religion, no matter the rationality of the beginning point.

111

I find it funny that Jesus during his life performed all these miracles yet no Roman historian wrote about him during his lifetime. I think there was mentions of him around jerusaleum in the time that he lived in writing. Some one who was seen as a rebel of the time, would have been cool if it was documented during his life and not after the fact. We all know how recounting stories years after they happen we tend to exaggerate them. Jesus is a cool dude when you get down to his actions and words, I dislike organized religion, but most gods or scriptures when read have some type of lessons to learn. Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, all have very good points. The best part of Islam is the shariah law imo,which says you can’t lend money with interest on it, I hate debt aha.And you can have multiple wives lol

112

[quote]Jlabs wrote:
I find it funny that Jesus during his life performed all these miracles yet no Roman historian wrote about him during his lifetime. I think there was mentions of him around jerusaleum in the time that he lived in writing. Some one who was seen as a rebel of the time, would have been cool if it was documented during his life and not after the fact. We all know how recounting stories years after they happen we tend to exaggerate them. Jesus is a cool dude when you get down to his actions and words, I dislike organized religion, but most gods or scriptures when read have some type of lessons to learn. Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, all have very good points. The best part of Islam is the shariah law imo,which says you can’t lend money with interest on it, I hate debt aha.And you can have multiple wives lol[/quote]

Very few firsthand accounts of Paul Bunyan’s mighty feats, either. You’d think that a giant lumberjack with a monstrous blue ox couldn’t have escaped the attention of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

I heartily agree that one of Islam’s big selling points is the ban on usury, and the insistence on honest money.

Christianity used to have that too, until Christian emperors discovered how to get rich by borrowing paper money from central banks and having the people pay back the debt.

113

And actually, Jlabs, no. No contemporary accounts of Jesus or his teachings exist.

What Roman accounts that exist were written many, many years after the fact, are riddled with later doctorings by Christian revisionists, and for the most part referenced the people who followed his doctrines, not the man himself.

114

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Christians, Muslims etc will NEVER believe their theory of creation to be false no matter what evidence there is against it.
[/quote]

Because there has never been any indisputable proof against it. You have any?

The theory of evolution is like putting all the pieces of a Rolex watch into a box. Placing the box of parts into the manufacturing plant. Blowing up the manufacturing plant and out flies a brand new Rolex Watch. Not going to happen ever. It is more believable that a God created everything.

Now if you want to debate the technological evolution of humans then I will be on your side. There is still no evidence that humans evolved from anything. We just all of a sudden appeared out of no where, which is what the Bible teaches.
[/quote]

There is nothing more to be said here than you are absolutely, and unequivocally wrong.

115

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Christians, Muslims etc will NEVER believe their theory of creation to be false no matter what evidence there is against it.
[/quote]

Because there has never been any indisputable proof against it. You have any?
[/quote]

Gods born of a virgin:
Augustus
Adonis
Korbyas
Osiris
Tammuz
Krishna
Perseus
Zoroaster
Dionysus
Mithras
Buddha
Jesus

Jesus happens to be the most recent of the gods born of a virgin. Now this may not be indisputable evidence to you, but the fact is that the story of Jesus shares many similarities with other gods that predate him. So it would stand to reason that Jesus is a myth heavily influence by the myths of the past. Any evidence against this?
[/quote]

My question had nothing to do with Jesus being born of a virgin, but since you bring it up. this proof does not mean that Jesus was not born of a virgin. Just means that other claim to have been born of a virgin also. Too many prophecies of the Messiah were found completed in Jesus. Were they made up is hard to tell, but millions of people have died for this Man. People do not just willingly die for a lie. Of the 12 disciples, 10 were martyred for their faith, one hung himself because he betrayed the Messiah, and the other took care of Jesus’ Mother. Others say it was all about money and power. The disciples were poor just read the book of Acts. Everything they had was given to them. In fact Paul was a tent maker for the Roman Empire. That is how he got his citizenship as a Roman.

My question had to do with evidence or proof that creation is wrong. I wanted to know what your proof that creation did not happen the way the Bible said it happen. I personally do not buy into the notion that the 7 days are 24 hour periods. Push and I differ on this. Could it be that way yes. This is not the point of this discussion though.

I have seen the scientific theories about how the world came into existence, and I see it jiving with the Creation story in the Bible. In this scientific theory there are so many possible outcomes and everything lining up perfectly that without God we would not be here. If the earth had been a couple hundred miles closer or farther from the sun (no liquid water), if the earth had not collected enough mass (magnetic field without it we would have ended up like Mars), if the moon was larger or smaller (our orbit and the tilt of our earth for seasons and tides), if Jupiter’s gravity was not so powerful to pull in asteroids and comets (we would have more and more collisions), and on, and on, and on. This is the reason for the watch factory story. It was not by chance, but by a divine hand we are here.
[/quote]

The main difference I see between the scientific theories of our existence and the religious belief in a creator is that the former comes to their belief through observation and reason and the latter comes to their belief through blind faith in the ancient texts passed down to them by their parents (in most cases.) I wouldn’t say creationism is wrong, just that is unproven. No more proven than evolution. To go around saying people will suffer in hell for eternity because they don’t believe in a certain theory of creation is asinine IMO. Could there be a creator? I certainly am not ruling it out. Is the creator the one described in the Bible, Quran, Torah, etc.? About as probable as Jedi’s using the force in a galaxy far far away.[/quote]

At least you are not ruling it out. Just so you know the Torah and the Old Testament in the Bible are the same, unless you are using a Catholic Bible and they have 7 extra books that are added. To all the Catholics yes I know the argument you guys have about the Apocrypha.

About the Jedi’s that is fantasy and the George Lucas even says that. Now the Bible the people in it sure do seem more historical than many of the myths that people like to compare to the Bible. People that have PhDs in literature have read the Bible and state the Bible does not read like a myth, but as a historical text.
[/quote]

There is exactly the same amount of evidence that the sith lords and the Jedi Knights are locked in an intergalactic battle that rages ceaselessly, as there is to support the imbecilic farce called the bible. None.

116

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Christians, Muslims etc will NEVER believe their theory of creation to be false no matter what evidence there is against it.
[/quote]

Because there has never been any indisputable proof against it. You have any?
[/quote]

Gods born of a virgin:
Augustus
Adonis
Korbyas
Osiris
Tammuz
Krishna
Perseus
Zoroaster
Dionysus
Mithras
Buddha
Jesus

Jesus happens to be the most recent of the gods born of a virgin. Now this may not be indisputable evidence to you, but the fact is that the story of Jesus shares many similarities with other gods that predate him. So it would stand to reason that Jesus is a myth heavily influence by the myths of the past. Any evidence against this?
[/quote]

My question had nothing to do with Jesus being born of a virgin, but since you bring it up. this proof does not mean that Jesus was not born of a virgin. Just means that other claim to have been born of a virgin also. Too many prophecies of the Messiah were found completed in Jesus. Were they made up is hard to tell, but millions of people have died for this Man. People do not just willingly die for a lie. Of the 12 disciples, 10 were martyred for their faith, one hung himself because he betrayed the Messiah, and the other took care of Jesus’ Mother. Others say it was all about money and power. The disciples were poor just read the book of Acts. Everything they had was given to them. In fact Paul was a tent maker for the Roman Empire. That is how he got his citizenship as a Roman.

My question had to do with evidence or proof that creation is wrong. I wanted to know what your proof that creation did not happen the way the Bible said it happen. I personally do not buy into the notion that the 7 days are 24 hour periods. Push and I differ on this. Could it be that way yes. This is not the point of this discussion though.

I have seen the scientific theories about how the world came into existence, and I see it jiving with the Creation story in the Bible. In this scientific theory there are so many possible outcomes and everything lining up perfectly that without God we would not be here. If the earth had been a couple hundred miles closer or farther from the sun (no liquid water), if the earth had not collected enough mass (magnetic field without it we would have ended up like Mars), if the moon was larger or smaller (our orbit and the tilt of our earth for seasons and tides), if Jupiter’s gravity was not so powerful to pull in asteroids and comets (we would have more and more collisions), and on, and on, and on. This is the reason for the watch factory story. It was not by chance, but by a divine hand we are here.
[/quote]

The main difference I see between the scientific theories of our existence and the religious belief in a creator is that the former comes to their belief through observation and reason and the latter comes to their belief through blind faith in the ancient texts passed down to them by their parents (in most cases.) I wouldn’t say creationism is wrong, just that is unproven. No more proven than evolution. To go around saying people will suffer in hell for eternity because they don’t believe in a certain theory of creation is asinine IMO. Could there be a creator? I certainly am not ruling it out. Is the creator the one described in the Bible, Quran, Torah, etc.? About as probable as Jedi’s using the force in a galaxy far far away.[/quote]

At least you are not ruling it out. Just so you know the Torah and the Old Testament in the Bible are the same, unless you are using a Catholic Bible and they have 7 extra books that are added. To all the Catholics yes I know the argument you guys have about the Apocrypha.

About the Jedi’s that is fantasy and the George Lucas even says that. Now the Bible the people in it sure do seem more historical than many of the myths that people like to compare to the Bible. People that have PhDs in literature have read the Bible and state the Bible does not read like a myth, but as a historical text.
[/quote]

The religious texts of ancient Egypt and the Sumerians read like historical text, as well as most any other religion. If there is a creator, the chances it fits snugly into any of these religious beliefs is no more likely for one than the other.[/quote]

Then why has those religions not stood the test of time? The Bible was written over a period of 1500 years by 39 authors. No other religion can make those claims. Usually it is only one author during their life time or shorter.
[/quote]

GENOCIDE, PERSECUTION, MURDER and TORTURE. These are the reasons that christianity has spread like a plague, and has survived. However, thankfully, it is dying off as we become more knowledgeable as a species.

As for length of time that religions have been around, maybe you should have a think about the oldest group of religions in the world - hinduism. It breaks your argument about your self serving cult of human sacrifice.

117

[quote]Karado wrote:
Ohhh, Maiden 3:16…I loved Maiden back in the day BTW…'Survived their ‘Number Of The Beast’ tour
in back in some other era…'been there, done that…Is there a Metal Band I HAVEN’T seen??..I don’t
think so…heh.

As far as the Pagan Gods similarities, It would behoove you to read author Ronald H. Nash
on that one…he breaks it down amazingly well and debunks all that speculation in very erudite
fashion…That’s all I’m giving you lest I cast too many pearls…Don’t try to poke holes in the Texts because
your gonna run into a brick wall every single time…I know, I tried for years…'can’t do it…good luck
though…seriously, if you come up with any huge, original revelation that you find foolproof, airtight,
and undeniable debunking Christianity, I’m all ears.

6, 66…''The Number Of The BEAST!!!“…Eddieeeeee!!!.. WOOOOOOOOO!!!”
Damn Eddie was freaky…I see that mascot has gotten bigger and more elaborate over the years.
[/quote]

We’ve already found the proof that christianity is a complete crock of shit, and they’re called bacteria.

118

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Christians, Muslims etc will NEVER believe their theory of creation to be false no matter what evidence there is against it.
[/quote]

Because there has never been any indisputable proof against it. You have any?
[/quote]

Gods born of a virgin:
Augustus
Adonis
Korbyas
Osiris
Tammuz
Krishna
Perseus
Zoroaster
Dionysus
Mithras
Buddha
Jesus

Jesus happens to be the most recent of the gods born of a virgin. Now this may not be indisputable evidence to you, but the fact is that the story of Jesus shares many similarities with other gods that predate him. So it would stand to reason that Jesus is a myth heavily influence by the myths of the past. Any evidence against this?
[/quote]

My question had nothing to do with Jesus being born of a virgin, but since you bring it up. this proof does not mean that Jesus was not born of a virgin. Just means that other claim to have been born of a virgin also. Too many prophecies of the Messiah were found completed in Jesus. Were they made up is hard to tell, but millions of people have died for this Man. People do not just willingly die for a lie. Of the 12 disciples, 10 were martyred for their faith, one hung himself because he betrayed the Messiah, and the other took care of Jesus’ Mother. Others say it was all about money and power. The disciples were poor just read the book of Acts. Everything they had was given to them. In fact Paul was a tent maker for the Roman Empire. That is how he got his citizenship as a Roman.

My question had to do with evidence or proof that creation is wrong. I wanted to know what your proof that creation did not happen the way the Bible said it happen. I personally do not buy into the notion that the 7 days are 24 hour periods. Push and I differ on this. Could it be that way yes. This is not the point of this discussion though.

I have seen the scientific theories about how the world came into existence, and I see it jiving with the Creation story in the Bible. In this scientific theory there are so many possible outcomes and everything lining up perfectly that without God we would not be here. If the earth had been a couple hundred miles closer or farther from the sun (no liquid water), if the earth had not collected enough mass (magnetic field without it we would have ended up like Mars), if the moon was larger or smaller (our orbit and the tilt of our earth for seasons and tides), if Jupiter’s gravity was not so powerful to pull in asteroids and comets (we would have more and more collisions), and on, and on, and on. This is the reason for the watch factory story. It was not by chance, but by a divine hand we are here.
[/quote]

The main difference I see between the scientific theories of our existence and the religious belief in a creator is that the former comes to their belief through observation and reason and the latter comes to their belief through blind faith in the ancient texts passed down to them by their parents (in most cases.) I wouldn’t say creationism is wrong, just that is unproven. No more proven than evolution. To go around saying people will suffer in hell for eternity because they don’t believe in a certain theory of creation is asinine IMO. Could there be a creator? I certainly am not ruling it out. Is the creator the one described in the Bible, Quran, Torah, etc.? About as probable as Jedi’s using the force in a galaxy far far away.[/quote]

At least you are not ruling it out. Just so you know the Torah and the Old Testament in the Bible are the same, unless you are using a Catholic Bible and they have 7 extra books that are added. To all the Catholics yes I know the argument you guys have about the Apocrypha.

About the Jedi’s that is fantasy and the George Lucas even says that. Now the Bible the people in it sure do seem more historical than many of the myths that people like to compare to the Bible. People that have PhDs in literature have read the Bible and state the Bible does not read like a myth, but as a historical text.
[/quote]

The religious texts of ancient Egypt and the Sumerians read like historical text, as well as most any other religion. If there is a creator, the chances it fits snugly into any of these religious beliefs is no more likely for one than the other.[/quote]

Then why has those religions not stood the test of time? The Bible was written over a period of 1500 years by 39 authors. No other religion can make those claims. Usually it is only one author during their life time or shorter.
[/quote]

The Christian Bible (what survives of it after Nicaea) was written over a period of a couple hundred years by a handful of writers. The Hebrew Bible is older by far, making Judaism a religion that had stood the test of time longer than Christianity, and without the thousands of splinterings into sects and sub-sects that Christianity has. Islam, too, is now nearly 1500 years old, and yes, you can say that the Qur’an borrows from earlier sources, but the same can be said from those earlier sources.

The Christ story borrows plenty of elements from Greek myth, particularly Heracles and Dionysos (which was itself borrowed from the Egyptian Horus myth), as well as the Zoroastrian stories of Mithra. The entire book of Matthew has some fascinating parallels to the Egyptian book of the Dead, and the book of Job and story of Noah parallels far earlier stories from Greek and Sumerian mythology.

So you can say that the old Akkadian and Sumerian and Babylonian and Greek and Egyptian religions did indeed stand the test of time. We still worship the same gods as they did, only with new names.

You see, the theory of evolution also applies to religion. Some religions go extinct, but not before passing a few of their genes on to other religions, which then continue to evolve and speciate. We just don’t always see it happening because the time scale is so long. [/quote]

The analogy to religion and evolution is apt. However, one can easily take it a step further and call religion a virus that is not living in and of itself, it requires a host. It infects, and causes the infected to make attempts to convert/infect other potential hosts.

It is a sickness that our species would be better off without.