Hell Is Real And Souls Go There

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
62

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Christians, Muslims etc will NEVER believe their theory of creation to be false no matter what evidence there is against it.
[/quote]

Because there has never been any indisputable proof against it. You have any?
[/quote]

Gods born of a virgin:
Augustus
Adonis
Korbyas
Osiris
Tammuz
Krishna
Perseus
Zoroaster
Dionysus
Mithras
Buddha
Jesus

Jesus happens to be the most recent of the gods born of a virgin. Now this may not be indisputable evidence to you, but the fact is that the story of Jesus shares many similarities with other gods that predate him. So it would stand to reason that Jesus is a myth heavily influence by the myths of the past. Any evidence against this?

Evolution is not an unquestionable text that sends non-believers to hell. It is simply a theory, using observation and reason, explaining how we got here. I don’t believe it 100%. There are too many unknowns in our past and in the universe to say anything regarding our creation is 100% fact. What I do believe is that open scientific minds are more likely to find answers to our existence than blind faith.

63

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
“Hell Is Real And Souls Go There.”

“Santa’s Workshop Is Real and Elves Work There.”

“The Shire Is Real And Frodo Lives There.”

“The Death Star Is Real And Vader Lives There.”

“Neverland Ranch Is Real And Little Children Slept There.” Whoops.

[/quote]

I know this game. Which one of these is not like the other?

I know the answer “Hell is Real and Souls go there”.
[/quote]

I apologize for this post, a little insensitive. The title of this thread is a little redundant and had me laughing. OP had to make sure there is no confusion that Hell exists AND souls go there. As Hell could exist… and souls don’t go there. Or Hell exists… and the devil doesn’t live there.

Maybe the next thread can be titled “Hell exists and it is hot down there.”

64

I do wonder how my life would have turned out if my parents had threatened me with hell. I am more worried about making the most of my time here on the planet than whatever happens after I die.

66

It is just an interesting thought experiment, it seems many here have grown up with promises of eternal heaven or hell based on their actions. I rather try to show my close ones that I love them today, because when they are dead I will never see them again. My grandmother talked about heaven, but with nonchristian parents it didnt really catch.
I discussed it with a muslim MD, she couldnt imagine how life was without believing in allah, I couldnt imagine life with belief.

67

I have been to hell many times and it is quite nice.

http://www.gotohellmi.com/history-of-hell

And they have icecream.

69

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Christians, Muslims etc will NEVER believe their theory of creation to be false no matter what evidence there is against it.
[/quote]

Because there has never been any indisputable proof against it. You have any?
[/quote]

Gods born of a virgin:
Augustus
Adonis
Korbyas
Osiris
Tammuz
Krishna
Perseus
Zoroaster
Dionysus
Mithras
Buddha
Jesus

Jesus happens to be the most recent of the gods born of a virgin. Now this may not be indisputable evidence to you, but the fact is that the story of Jesus shares many similarities with other gods that predate him. So it would stand to reason that Jesus is a myth heavily influence by the myths of the past. Any evidence against this?
[/quote]

My question had nothing to do with Jesus being born of a virgin, but since you bring it up. this proof does not mean that Jesus was not born of a virgin. Just means that other claim to have been born of a virgin also. Too many prophecies of the Messiah were found completed in Jesus. Were they made up is hard to tell, but millions of people have died for this Man. People do not just willingly die for a lie. Of the 12 disciples, 10 were martyred for their faith, one hung himself because he betrayed the Messiah, and the other took care of Jesus’ Mother. Others say it was all about money and power. The disciples were poor just read the book of Acts. Everything they had was given to them. In fact Paul was a tent maker for the Roman Empire. That is how he got his citizenship as a Roman.

My question had to do with evidence or proof that creation is wrong. I wanted to know what your proof that creation did not happen the way the Bible said it happen. I personally do not buy into the notion that the 7 days are 24 hour periods. Push and I differ on this. Could it be that way yes. This is not the point of this discussion though.

I have seen the scientific theories about how the world came into existence, and I see it jiving with the Creation story in the Bible. In this scientific theory there are so many possible outcomes and everything lining up perfectly that without God we would not be here. If the earth had been a couple hundred miles closer or farther from the sun (no liquid water), if the earth had not collected enough mass (magnetic field without it we would have ended up like Mars), if the moon was larger or smaller (our orbit and the tilt of our earth for seasons and tides), if Jupiter’s gravity was not so powerful to pull in asteroids and comets (we would have more and more collisions), and on, and on, and on. This is the reason for the watch factory story. It was not by chance, but by a divine hand we are here.

70

I have been to this Hell. My wife went with me.

71

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
God would say, “I created you and now you have a choice whether to worship me!”[/quote]

Lets fix this shall we.

Also It was never designed to be a God above / worshiper beneath relationship. God and Adam walked daily in the garden together.
[/quote]

So God made a human race. He then gives us no evidence that he even exists. That same God will damn you to hell if you don’t believe in him and follow ten rules? Or you can get in line and live a worthless slave life and go to heaven.

I’ve heard this kind of brain washing before. 72 virgins anyone?
It’s called controlling animals through fear and temptation.
I like that people have religion. Keeps guys from raping, killing, and stealing as much. I get it.

72

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
“Hell Is Real And Souls Go There.”

“Santa’s Workshop Is Real and Elves Work There.”

“The Shire Is Real And Frodo Lives There.”

“The Death Star Is Real And Vader Lives There.”

“Neverland Ranch Is Real And Little Children Slept There.” Whoops.

[/quote]

I know this game. Which one of these is not like the other?

I know the answer “Hell is Real and Souls go there”.
[/quote]

I apologize for this post, a little insensitive. The title of this thread is a little redundant and had me laughing. OP had to make sure there is no confusion that Hell exists AND souls go there. As Hell could exist… and souls don’t go there. Or Hell exists… and the devil doesn’t live there.

Maybe the next thread can be titled “Hell exists and it is hot down there.”[/quote]

I was just making a joke.

73

I also believe there have been big bangs in the past. The universe is expanding and black holes make it shrink back down until the last black hole swallows the next to last black hole and then you have another big bang.

74

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
God would say, “I created you and now you have a choice whether to worship me!”[/quote]

Lets fix this shall we.

Also It was never designed to be a God above / worshiper beneath relationship. God and Adam walked daily in the garden together.
[/quote]

So God made a human race. He then gives us no evidence that he even exists. That same God will damn you to hell if you don’t believe in him and follow ten rules? Or you can get in line and live a worthless slave life and go to heaven.

I’ve heard this kind of brain washing before. 72 virgins anyone?
It’s called controlling animals through fear and temptation.
I like that people have religion. Keeps guys from raping, killing, and stealing as much. I get it.[/quote]

You do not get it.

75

I certainly understand that! Seems that has gotten the better of me too in the past. Best luck getting back in the zone, it’s hard to do lol.

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Time really is rather tight with me. I am a person who is lacking at times. Recently I have been rather immature with my time management. If I am super busy yet only follow strict protocols I will return to times when I had better engagement and follow through. As time becomes more valuable then I might become the KD of old, yet with two children at home ; ) Hold your breath because I may even surprise myself JAA JAA JAA!

[quote]Aragorn wrote: Because you are turning into the conservative catholic version of Zeppelin with his drive-by 2 line video link threads. That’s why you’re not getting any discussion. I remember you used to actually have meaningful discussion contributions from the catholic perspective. I can’t remember the last time I saw you posting meaningful contributions to threads already in progress; now its just spamming multiple thread starts and checking out.

Look, I know you’ve always been conservative and also catholic. That’s fine. Brother Chris is as well and on the occasions he comes in to PWI makes some pretty good contributions to discussion. You used to, but now spend all your time emulating Zeppelin from what I can tell, and it’s rezlly bloody annoying.

THAT is why people are doing what they are in your thread. If you stopped spamming multiple threads that you never followed up with then it might be different. We don’t need more sensationalist things–we’re all adults here, or mostly. Discussion accompanied by reasoning skills.is much more likely to get serious reflection out of people.
[/quote]
[/quote]

76

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
I also believe there have been big bangs in the past. The universe is expanding and black holes make it shrink back down until the last black hole swallows the next to last black hole and then you have another big bang. [/quote]

And you have proof of this belief?

I have heard this before. You know 72 Virgins and Stuff. Because people have actually been to a black hole and gone into it. No visible proof of a black hole, just the actions of other matter around it.

Yes, I am taking a stab at you. Not trying to be an a@@ just making you think.

A black hole just like God can not be directly seen. You can only see the effects of the matter around it.

Have you seen the wind? I have never seen the wind, but I see the effects of the wind.

77

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Have you seen the wind? I have never seen the wind, but I see the effects of the wind. [/quote]
But wind can be measured and felt. Wind is moving air and air can be measured, felt, weighed, etc. Can God be weighed?

79

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Christians, Muslims etc will NEVER believe their theory of creation to be false no matter what evidence there is against it.
[/quote]

Because there has never been any indisputable proof against it. You have any?
[/quote]

Gods born of a virgin:
Augustus
Adonis
Korbyas
Osiris
Tammuz
Krishna
Perseus
Zoroaster
Dionysus
Mithras
Buddha
Jesus

Jesus happens to be the most recent of the gods born of a virgin. Now this may not be indisputable evidence to you, but the fact is that the story of Jesus shares many similarities with other gods that predate him. So it would stand to reason that Jesus is a myth heavily influence by the myths of the past. Any evidence against this?
[/quote]

My question had nothing to do with Jesus being born of a virgin, but since you bring it up. this proof does not mean that Jesus was not born of a virgin. Just means that other claim to have been born of a virgin also. Too many prophecies of the Messiah were found completed in Jesus. Were they made up is hard to tell, but millions of people have died for this Man. People do not just willingly die for a lie. Of the 12 disciples, 10 were martyred for their faith, one hung himself because he betrayed the Messiah, and the other took care of Jesus’ Mother. Others say it was all about money and power. The disciples were poor just read the book of Acts. Everything they had was given to them. In fact Paul was a tent maker for the Roman Empire. That is how he got his citizenship as a Roman.

My question had to do with evidence or proof that creation is wrong. I wanted to know what your proof that creation did not happen the way the Bible said it happen. I personally do not buy into the notion that the 7 days are 24 hour periods. Push and I differ on this. Could it be that way yes. This is not the point of this discussion though.

I have seen the scientific theories about how the world came into existence, and I see it jiving with the Creation story in the Bible. In this scientific theory there are so many possible outcomes and everything lining up perfectly that without God we would not be here. If the earth had been a couple hundred miles closer or farther from the sun (no liquid water), if the earth had not collected enough mass (magnetic field without it we would have ended up like Mars), if the moon was larger or smaller (our orbit and the tilt of our earth for seasons and tides), if Jupiter’s gravity was not so powerful to pull in asteroids and comets (we would have more and more collisions), and on, and on, and on. This is the reason for the watch factory story. It was not by chance, but by a divine hand we are here.
[/quote]

The main difference I see between the scientific theories of our existence and the religious belief in a creator is that the former comes to their belief through observation and reason and the latter comes to their belief through blind faith in the ancient texts passed down to them by their parents (in most cases.) I wouldn’t say creationism is wrong, just that is unproven. No more proven than evolution. To go around saying people will suffer in hell for eternity because they don’t believe in a certain theory of creation is asinine IMO. Could there be a creator? I certainly am not ruling it out. Is the creator the one described in the Bible, Quran, Torah, etc.? About as probable as Jedi’s using the force in a galaxy far far away.

80

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Christians, Muslims etc will NEVER believe their theory of creation to be false no matter what evidence there is against it.
[/quote]

Because there has never been any indisputable proof against it. You have any?
[/quote]

Gods born of a virgin:
Augustus
Adonis
Korbyas
Osiris
Tammuz
Krishna
Perseus
Zoroaster
Dionysus
Mithras
Buddha
Jesus

Jesus happens to be the most recent of the gods born of a virgin. Now this may not be indisputable evidence to you, but the fact is that the story of Jesus shares many similarities with other gods that predate him. So it would stand to reason that Jesus is a myth heavily influence by the myths of the past. Any evidence against this?

Evolution is not an unquestionable text that sends non-believers to hell. It is simply a theory, using observation and reason, explaining how we got here. I don’t believe it 100%. There are too many unknowns in our past and in the universe to say anything regarding our creation is 100% fact. What I do believe is that open scientific minds are more likely to find answers to our existence than blind faith. [/quote]

Well, there are a couple of things to say here. The first is that not all Christians believe in literal six day creation, some believe in evolution, and some consider the raging argument irrelevant to the faith. In fact one of the pre-eminent evolutionary proponents in the argument has been Dr. Simon Conway Morris–a paleobiologist from Cambridge University and professor of the same there, praised several times by the late Steven Gould himself for his work on the pre-Cambrian explosion and defense of evolution. Dr. Morris is also a very longstanding and active Christian.

Likewise one of my good friends works in entomology research in the field of evolutionary genetics. He is also an extremely strong Christian. There are several others I can think of that are doing extremely strong work and have been under consideration for the Nobel prize before.

The second thing is that “science” and “scientists” are not necessarily more open minded than normal people. Yes slme of the most open minded people I know of are scientists…but some are Christians as well. Further some of the most close minded people you can meet are also scientists, just as some are Christians. It is a myth that has been sort of self-perpetuating tht scientists are these impartial calculating individuals with open brains and no bias. If you work in science (as I do) you become aware of some of the most egregious cases of bias or ad hominem attacks you could think of, both published and not. My graduate professor was one such person, who was quite obviously looking down on another fellow professor–doing fantastic research at the same university and with major grant money mind you–for his worldview. They can be just as prone to these ad hominem attacks as any other area. That saves the effort of addressing the other person’s argument. Just because these attacks happen to be couched in different verbal terms thats appear to laypeople to be mre or less benign does not make them less fallacious to the people and peers in the area.