Hell Is Real And Souls Go There

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
281

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

The names would all be Irish. [/quote]

Does that not tell you something about their faith? Just like the Muslims?
[/quote]

Their faith is Christianity.

282

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

The names would all be Irish. [/quote]

Does that not tell you something about their faith? Just like the Muslims?
[/quote]

The Catholic Irish were pissed off that the Protestants were siding with a powerful military empire, and engaged in acts of terrorism to punish the occupiers and their collaborators.

So yeah, it tells me that the motivations for violence are identical no matter what region of the world one lives in, or what faith one follows.

283

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
[/quote]

This is the stuff that I take issue with.

You don’t “know” this. Because you can’t prove it. And if you can’t prove a claim, why make that claim?[/quote]

There are some answers we will never know, I add, on this side of heaven. My faith is strong in the fact that people 2000 years ago lived and walked with Jesus. That they knew he was God, and he was here to save us. They also were killed because of that belief.

Now you say that is not proof, but yet we believe in the theory of Relativity from a guy that is dead that you never met. Now people have built on that Theory for 50-70 years yet it is considered Gospel to the scientific community. What is the difference? There is no difference other than people were not killed for that belief.

284

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
[/quote]
Who said it wasn’t already? The problem with most who claim to be religious is that they are fundamentalists. Faith without doubt. [/quote]

Is it doubt or their unwillingness to question? You can not doubt God exists and be a believer. You can question God of why? King David in the Bible did it all the time. I also question God about why things happen the way they do. It is hard to see through my eyes, but when you look back at history you can see parts to the question why.
[/quote]
It’s their unwillingness to search for the truth. They don’t have faith, they have simply been convinced. It’s not about the existence of God but the arrogance to believe they know God, speak for God…speak with God. Fundamentalists believe everything we need to know about existence is known. It has been shown to us by God via whomever claimed he speaks for Him. The things we don’t know, don’t need to be known. Any question that cannot be answered with scripture is not worth pondering, let alone answering.

285

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
but if you are wrong eternity is going to be a long time. [/quote]

This is where the train comes off the track for me. Well one of many places.

If one is there for eternity, the concept of time is moot. It is existence without time. There would be no concept of being there “for a long time”.

Aside from that fact I’m convinced if there is a Hell, it is simply being reborn to deal with this all over again, lol.

286

[quote]H factor wrote:
All I was saying is IF he ends up existing AND people burn in hell for not worshiping him then he’s a monumental dickhead and worthy of no one’s praise. [/quote]

Agreed.

If I was given a mind that cannot accept the fantastical elements of the Bible, and then burn for it, then I don’t want anything to do with the petulant child in charge of that system. He can hang with Dahmer.

287

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Please link to a story about a Christian “extremist” strapping a bomb to his daughter chest and detonating her in the middle of a market? Or sending a down syndrome sufferer to the same fate.

288

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
[/quote]

This is the stuff that I take issue with.

You don’t “know” this. Because you can’t prove it. And if you can’t prove a claim, why make that claim?[/quote]

There are some answers we will never know, I add, on this side of heaven. My faith is strong in the fact that people 2000 years ago lived and walked with Jesus. That they knew he was God, and he was here to save us. They also were killed because of that belief.

Now you say that is not proof, but yet we believe in the theory of Relativity from a guy that is dead that you never met. Now people have built on that Theory for 50-70 years yet it is considered Gospel to the scientific community. What is the difference? There is no difference other than people were not killed for that belief.
[/quote]
Relativity can be qualified as being a theory and scientists are OK with that. Tell me what believers would qualify their religion with the word theory? We don’t have the Theory of Christianity.

And maybe some answers will never be known, that doesn’t mean we should fear trying to find them.

289

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Please link to a story about a Christian “extremist” strapping a bomb to his daughter chest and detonating her in the middle of a market? Or sending a down syndrome sufferer to the same fate.[/quote]

290

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Please link to a story about a Christian “extremist” strapping a bomb to his daughter chest and detonating her in the middle of a market? Or sending a down syndrome sufferer to the same fate.[/quote]

What about those extremist assholes that murdered the “witches” in Salem?

291

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Please link to a story about a Christian “extremist” strapping a bomb to his daughter chest and detonating her in the middle of a market? Or sending a down syndrome sufferer to the same fate.[/quote]

It does happen.

292

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

So the horrific tortures done in the name of Chrsitanity throughout history don’t count because they aren’t real Christians, but those done in the name of Allah do count because well…it’s not what I believe so double standards are ok?

That REALLY can’t be how you rationalize things. [/quote]

So we will not believe what the Christians say because there is no proof that Jesus is alive other than a book, but we will believe that Christians tortured and murdered people because a book says so? Finish reading my post, because I explain it.

Now lets look at the two Holy books of Christianity and Islam. The New Testament says nothing about killing anyone. The Quaron says to either convert the infidels or kill them. Which is more likely? The Christians that tortured and murdered people were going against what God commanded them to do, or the Muslims that are actually doing what Allah told them to do. Now if you want to compare the Pope during the 15th-17th century to Muhammad then I might accept that, a false prophet.

Now why would you think that the Reformation happened after the torturing and murdering of people in the name of God. Maybe because they knew that the Catholic Church was wrong, and gotten away from what the Bible was teaching? Now that is actually 100% plausible, and that is how I rationalize it.

293

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
[/quote]
Who said it wasn’t already? The problem with most who claim to be religious is that they are fundamentalists. Faith without doubt. [/quote]

Is it doubt or their unwillingness to question? You can not doubt God exists and be a believer. You can question God of why? King David in the Bible did it all the time. I also question God about why things happen the way they do. It is hard to see through my eyes, but when you look back at history you can see parts to the question why.
[/quote]
It’s their unwillingness to search for the truth. They don’t have faith, they have simply been convinced. It’s not about the existence of God but the arrogance to believe they know God, speak for God…speak with God. Fundamentalists believe everything we need to know about existence is known. It has been shown to us by God via whomever claimed he speaks for Him. The things we don’t know, don’t need to be known. Any question that cannot be answered with scripture is not worth pondering, let alone answering. [/quote]

I see your point and that is fair enough.

294

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
[/quote]

This is the stuff that I take issue with.

You don’t “know” this. Because you can’t prove it. And if you can’t prove a claim, why make that claim?[/quote]

There are some answers we will never know, I add, on this side of heaven. My faith is strong in the fact that people 2000 years ago lived and walked with Jesus. That they knew he was God, and he was here to save us. They also were killed because of that belief.

Now you say that is not proof, but yet we believe in the theory of Relativity from a guy that is dead that you never met. Now people have built on that Theory for 50-70 years yet it is considered Gospel to the scientific community. What is the difference? There is no difference other than people were not killed for that belief.
[/quote]

You said it yourself: theory.

Physics is theoretical. And yet it holds up to experimentation.

Anyway, the point is not about science. Far be it from me to tell you what Einstein and Bohr said, much less whether it was true or not.

The point is about religion. You say that I will know “the Real Truth” in the end. But you can’t prove it–not even in the way that a physicist can prove quantum mechanics.

So why make a claim that cannot be proved?

295

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
So it is so much of a stretch to believe that it is possible there is another life form on one of those planets with an intelligence greater than our own? [/quote]

I would say that it is more likely than not, there is life out there in the vastness of space much, much more intelligent than us, much more advanced than us, and better off in general.

However, to think they would come here, a couple times thousands of years ago to spawn… Well, us. Yet to rule out the possibility of an omnipotent being? Seems silly. (Not saying YOU are doing this.)

I would think that an alien species advanced enough to get here, stay here and spawn a species of man, woul dhave made us, well less shitty for lack of a better word. [/quote]

We are the most advanced species on this planet and what are we most proud of? In general, our creations. Why wouldn’t a technologically and possibly artistically advanced species want to create something magnificent? [/quote]

I’m saying we are far from magnificent in a lot fo ways. But that would explain why they didn’t come back to see how we were doing.

They were all like: “Ooops, we added WAY too much asshole to this formula”, packed up their labcoats and flew off to a new planet to start over.

So many smart ass replies lol. I’ll refrain.

This has been a good back-and-forth man, appreciate it.

296

Were the people who tortured “enemy combatants” from Iraq and Afghanistan, Christians? I didn’t read about that in an old book.

297

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
but if you are wrong eternity is going to be a long time. [/quote]

This is where the train comes off the track for me. Well one of many places.

If one is there for eternity, the concept of time is moot. It is existence without time. There would be no concept of being there “for a long time”.

Aside from that fact I’m convinced if there is a Hell, it is simply being reborn to deal with this all over again, lol. [/quote]

exactly.

298

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

The names would all be Irish. [/quote]

Does that not tell you something about their faith? Just like the Muslims?
[/quote]

The Catholic Irish were pissed off that the Protestants were siding with a powerful military empire, and engaged in acts of terrorism to punish the occupiers and their collaborators.

So yeah, it tells me that the motivations for violence are identical no matter what region of the world one lives in, or what faith one follows.
[/quote]

And this has everything to do with God, and not ownership of land?

299

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

The names would all be Irish. [/quote]

Does that not tell you something about their faith? Just like the Muslims?
[/quote]

The Catholic Irish were pissed off that the Protestants were siding with a powerful military empire, and engaged in acts of terrorism to punish the occupiers and their collaborators.

So yeah, it tells me that the motivations for violence are identical no matter what region of the world one lives in, or what faith one follows.
[/quote]

And this has everything to do with God, and not ownership of land?
[/quote]
Palestinians…cough…

300

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

So the horrific tortures done in the name of Chrsitanity throughout history don’t count because they aren’t real Christians, but those done in the name of Allah do count because well…it’s not what I believe so double standards are ok?

That REALLY can’t be how you rationalize things. [/quote]

So we will not believe what the Christians say because there is no proof that Jesus is alive other than a book, but we will believe that Christians tortured and murdered people because a book says so? Finish reading my post, because I explain it.

Now lets look at the two Holy books of Christianity and Islam. The New Testament says nothing about killing anyone. The Quaron says to either convert the infidels or kill them. Which is more likely? The Christians that tortured and murdered people were going against what God commanded them to do, or the Muslims that are actually doing what Allah told them to do. Now if you want to compare the Pope during the 15th-17th century to Muhammad then I might accept that, a false prophet.

Now why would you think that the Reformation happened after the torturing and murdering of people in the name of God. Maybe because they knew that the Catholic Church was wrong, and gotten away from what the Bible was teaching? Now that is actually 100% plausible, and that is how I rationalize it.
[/quote]

Your hypothesis hinges on the assumption that the Old Testament laws were nullified by the teachings of Jesus. Jesus purportedly stated that they were not.

In the Old Testament, as in the Qur’an, capital punishment is called for in cases of heresy, apostasy and blasphemy. The faithful are commanded to kill anyone who would try to convert a believer to another faith, and followers of other faiths are fair game to be exploited financially through usury or physically through slavery.

Also, if the Reformation happened as a reaction to the abuses of the Catholic Church, one wod assume that once the Protestant movement gained ground, then the torturings and the killings would have stopped, or at least would not have been perpetrated by Protestants. This clearly was not the case. Not in Europe, and certainly not in early America.