Hell Is Real And Souls Go There

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
261

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

The truth is probably just as Voltaire stated: man needs his gods so much that even if gods did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent them. [/quote]

You believe that Varq?
[/quote]

I believe that man needs gods, yes.

Otherwise, as push is so fond of saying, he is “just” an animal. [/quote]

If you do not want to get into it I understand, but I really want to know your story, and what led you away from God. I am hoping it was not the church, and the people that make up the church.

262

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?

263

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

God would only be ‘mean’ if we didn’t have freewill[/quote]

What about lightning striking and killing a baby? Or a sinkhole swallowing a small girl on Long Island?

I’m not saying that God did these things. I’m saying that, according to you, He knew that they were going to happen, and watched them happen without intervening.[/quote]

Why should he intervene?
And if God exists as does the afterlife, then death is not the end. Wouldn’t it be better to move on to eternal life than to live in this temporary perilous life?[/quote]

This argument applies to abortion as well. Why do you care about stopping it, if God shouldn’t care about stopping lightning strikes that have the same end result?

Is it, or is it not, “good” to live? To protect life? For life to flourish? Is murder, is premature death “bad”? Is it not a tragedy when an infant dies of SIDS, or is killed by a doctor at the request of its mother?

The position you took here leads to the same nihilism as does physicalism.

[quote]
Do you really want God to intervene, if he exists? You want him to save a baby?[/quote]

Of course I do. You don’t? It’s not an inconvenience to Him, being omnipotent as He is. So, yeah, why would I not?

Just like, if I were walking through the wilderness with a pistol, and came upon a slavering coyote that was circling a human infant, about to eat the poor little thing, I’d put a bullet between the coyote’s eyes. I have the power to stop a baby from dying. Why wouldn’t I?

(In fact, I’d consider myself complicit in its death if I could have acted, directly and at no inconvenience to me, and chose not to.)

But that isn’t the point. The point is this:

How can can an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God and natural evil coexist.

Either it isn’t “bad” for an infant to be struck by lightning, or it is “bad” for an infant to be struck by lightning and yet God can’t stop it from happening, or it is bad for an infant to be struck by lightning, and God can stop it from happening, and yet He chooses not to. Take your pick.

edited

264

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth.

265

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

Haha gladly. I think it is more likely that extraterrestrial beings came to our planet and seeded or guided our evolution than an ancient text written by ancient people (that thought the world was flat and Earth was the center of the universe) got everything about our creation exactly right to the point where if you don’t believe in that text you burn for eternity. That being said, I do not believe this religiously or even believe that it is very likely. Just more likely. [/quote]

Let’s revisit your earlier comment about the similarities across religions over time. There are a lot of them correct? In fact a lot of the same tales are very similar.

Now atheists tend to us this as an attacking point because they tend to only pick on religions that, in 2013, won’t harm them, or Christianity and the Jews once in awhile too, but not so much. They spend so much time with their feathers in the air peacocking their “AH HA!” moment they don’t ever sit back and think about the big picture.

So let’s just reframe this:

Option a: Omnipotent being has been trying to communicate with humans since the birth of thought, and because human’s are fallible they keep mixing up things, but some general themes hold true for thousands of years. Yes human translation is revised, changed and re-labled over and over, but the general themes are the same.

Option b: Space aliens who would likely have to be thousands of years more advanced than us, which would mean thousands of times less self destructive and stupid, landed on Earth, a handful of times at best, a few thousand years ago, and birthed the species.

You honestly think “b” is more likely? Best case I would say they both sound equally likely. [/quote]

My statement about similarities of different religions over time had more to do with a specific religion that believing only there way is the true way and if you don’t believe in that specific religion you go to hell for eternity. Using that to say a god of some sort does not exist was not my intention.

Now, what I said was aliens seeding our planet is more likely that one specific religious text getting it exactly right to the point where unbelief equals eternal punishment. Do I believe that option A and B, as you stated, just an omnipotent being trying to communicate (a higher intelligence maybe, aliens, who knows?) is just as likely? Yes.

266

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.

267

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

The truth is probably just as Voltaire stated: man needs his gods so much that even if gods did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent them. [/quote]

You believe that Varq?
[/quote]

I believe that man needs gods, yes.

Otherwise, as push is so fond of saying, he is “just” an animal. [/quote]

If you do not want to get into it I understand, but I really want to know your story, and what led you away from God. I am hoping it was not the church, and the people that make up the church.
[/quote]

You keep implying that I am an atheist, or that I have been “led away” from God somehow. This is not the case.

Perhaps I don’t make the same noises that “believers” make, mainly because I am above all a skeptic, and prefer to think rather than to simply believe, but rest assured that God and I are on good terms.

268

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Yes, which is why I said extremist assholes and not _________(fill in the blank) extremist assholes.

269

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
So it is so much of a stretch to believe that it is possible there is another life form on one of those planets with an intelligence greater than our own? [/quote]

I would say that it is more likely than not, there is life out there in the vastness of space much, much more intelligent than us, much more advanced than us, and better off in general.

However, to think they would come here, a couple times thousands of years ago to spawn… Well, us. Yet to rule out the possibility of an omnipotent being? Seems silly. (Not saying YOU are doing this.)

I would think that an alien species advanced enough to get here, stay here and spawn a species of man, woul dhave made us, well less shitty for lack of a better word. [/quote]

We are the most advanced species on this planet and what are we most proud of? In general, our creations. Why wouldn’t a technologically and possibly artistically advanced species want to create something magnificent?

270

I think the current state of the church is finally close to what it should have been in previous centuries decades or what ever. That is helping those in need and delivering aid to those who have nothing. Trying to wash out cultures and other religions wasn’t a good look.

Although my knowledge on the crusades is fading I think many of us wouldn’t be here in this day and age were it not for such ideologies in previous times. So the question I pose to the believers is do you feel that all the negative aspects of organized religion in years past are justified now, or was it flawed because of it being ran by humans?

Also do you think society is progressing to a certain point and then judgement day will come? Wondering out of curiosity what people believe I don’t feel it necessary to say what is right and wrong because everyone has their own perception and beliefs of reality and what happens after the fact of living.

271

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.

272

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

The names would all be Irish.

273

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
[/quote]
Who said it wasn’t already? The problem with most who claim to be religious is that they are fundamentalists. Faith without doubt.

274

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

The truth is probably just as Voltaire stated: man needs his gods so much that even if gods did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent them. [/quote]

You believe that Varq?
[/quote]

I believe that man needs gods, yes.

Otherwise, as push is so fond of saying, he is “just” an animal. [/quote]

If you do not want to get into it I understand, but I really want to know your story, and what led you away from God. I am hoping it was not the church, and the people that make up the church.
[/quote]

You keep implying that I am an atheist, or that I have been “led away” from God somehow. This is not the case.

Perhaps I don’t make the same noises that “believers” make, mainly because I am above all a skeptic, and prefer to think rather than to simply believe, but rest assured that God and I are on good terms.
[/quote]

Push implied it on another thread. Just checking and good to hear.

I ask God all the time why. God is big so he can handle the tough questions. Every time I question Him he answers me in a way I never would have imagined. I have faith that God exists, but I do question his reasoning all the time.

275

[quote]pat wrote:

I thought you just said you don’t get caught up in the problem of evil and then you went straight to the problem of evil?
If you have freewill and choose to be evil, whose fault is that? All else aside, whose fault is that?
If people freely choose to be evil should there be no justice for it?
So for instance, these militias in the Congo who took child slaves, have verifiable gang raped little children, burned entire villages, dismembered and disfigured people, burned schools with the kids in it, what should happen to a person who does things like that? And for how long? 20 years in prison?
If that sounds like an extreme example, it’s sadly common in that region.

What if someone rapes and murders your kids, wife, mother, family? What should happen to them? Shall we treat them with kindness and mercy?

You should not have brought up the problem of evil.[/quote]

I said I don’t believe in God therefore I don’t get caught up in the problem of evil. Why would I? I don’t believe he exists so why argue about his morality. All I was saying is IF he ends up existing AND people burn in hell for not worshiping him then he’s a monumental dickhead and worthy of no one’s praise. I find it honestly completely lolworthy that Christians threaten other people with hell. Look at how kneedragger started this. You guys are headed to burn for all eternity. Thankfully I worship this guy so I won’t be burning. All he asks is that you devote your entire life to worshiping him and if you don’t well you deserve to be tortured for all eternity.

The next points are irrelevant. If someone rapes and murders my family I’d hope they would go to jail for life.

276

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
[/quote]
Who said it wasn’t already? The problem with most who claim to be religious is that they are fundamentalists. Faith without doubt. [/quote]

Is it doubt or their unwillingness to question? You can not doubt God exists and be a believer. You can question God of why? King David in the Bible did it all the time. I also question God about why things happen the way they do. It is hard to see through my eyes, but when you look back at history you can see parts to the question why.

277

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

I ask God all the time why. God is big so he can handle the tough questions. Every time I question Him he answers me in a way I never would have imagined. I have faith that God exists, but I do question his reasoning all the time.
[/quote]
I ask God nothing because I trust the intellect he gave me.

278

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
[/quote]

This is the stuff that I take issue with.

You don’t “know” this. Because you can’t prove it. And if you can’t prove a claim, why make that claim?

279

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

The names would all be Irish. [/quote]

Does that not tell you something about their faith? Just like the Muslims?

280

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

So the horrific tortures done in the name of Chrsitanity throughout history don’t count because they aren’t real Christians, but those done in the name of Allah do count because well…it’s not what I believe so double standards are ok?

That REALLY can’t be how you rationalize things.