Hell Is Real And Souls Go There

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
301

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Please link to a story about a Christian “extremist” strapping a bomb to his daughter chest and detonating her in the middle of a market? Or sending a down syndrome sufferer to the same fate.[/quote]

What about those extremist assholes that murdered the “witches” in Salem?[/quote]

You have any proof that even happened?

302

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
[/quote]

This is the stuff that I take issue with.

You don’t “know” this. Because you can’t prove it. And if you can’t prove a claim, why make that claim?[/quote]

There are some answers we will never know, I add, on this side of heaven. My faith is strong in the fact that people 2000 years ago lived and walked with Jesus. That they knew he was God, and he was here to save us. They also were killed because of that belief.

Now you say that is not proof, but yet we believe in the theory of Relativity from a guy that is dead that you never met. Now people have built on that Theory for 50-70 years yet it is considered Gospel to the scientific community. What is the difference? There is no difference other than people were not killed for that belief.
[/quote]

Scientists are always willing to change their theories if something better comes along that invalidates the first theory. Just ask them what the minimum evidence they require to at least doubt the theory of relativity and it probably won’t be much.

Now what type of evidence do you require to reconsider your belief in god?

303

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
So it is so much of a stretch to believe that it is possible there is another life form on one of those planets with an intelligence greater than our own? [/quote]

I would say that it is more likely than not, there is life out there in the vastness of space much, much more intelligent than us, much more advanced than us, and better off in general.

However, to think they would come here, a couple times thousands of years ago to spawn… Well, us. Yet to rule out the possibility of an omnipotent being? Seems silly. (Not saying YOU are doing this.)

I would think that an alien species advanced enough to get here, stay here and spawn a species of man, woul dhave made us, well less shitty for lack of a better word. [/quote]

We are the most advanced species on this planet and what are we most proud of? In general, our creations. Why wouldn’t a technologically and possibly artistically advanced species want to create something magnificent? [/quote]

I’m saying we are far from magnificent in a lot fo ways. But that would explain why they didn’t come back to see how we were doing.

They were all like: “Ooops, we added WAY too much asshole to this formula”, packed up their labcoats and flew off to a new planet to start over.

So many smart ass replies lol. I’ll refrain.

This has been a good back-and-forth man, appreciate it. [/quote]

Haha thanks.

304

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
[/quote]

This is the stuff that I take issue with.

You don’t “know” this. Because you can’t prove it. And if you can’t prove a claim, why make that claim?[/quote]

There are some answers we will never know, I add, on this side of heaven. My faith is strong in the fact that people 2000 years ago lived and walked with Jesus. That they knew he was God, and he was here to save us. They also were killed because of that belief.

Now you say that is not proof, but yet we believe in the theory of Relativity from a guy that is dead that you never met. Now people have built on that Theory for 50-70 years yet it is considered Gospel to the scientific community. What is the difference? There is no difference other than people were not killed for that belief.
[/quote]

Scientists are always willing to change their theories if something better comes along that invalidates the first theory. Just ask them what the minimum evidence they require to at least doubt the theory of relativity and it probably won’t be much.

Now what type of evidence do you require to reconsider your belief in god?[/quote]

Scientist base their beliefs on Mathematics which is entirely man made. Now to reconsider God it would take a huge amount of evidence to change my mind. I have 5000 years of evidence that proves God exists. Theory of Relativity only 60-70 years. Which one has more evidence?

305

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

So the horrific tortures done in the name of Chrsitanity throughout history don’t count because they aren’t real Christians, but those done in the name of Allah do count because well…it’s not what I believe so double standards are ok?

That REALLY can’t be how you rationalize things. [/quote]

So we will not believe what the Christians say because there is no proof that Jesus is alive other than a book, but we will believe that Christians tortured and murdered people because a book says so? Finish reading my post, because I explain it.

Now lets look at the two Holy books of Christianity and Islam. The New Testament says nothing about killing anyone. The Quaron says to either convert the infidels or kill them. Which is more likely? The Christians that tortured and murdered people were going against what God commanded them to do, or the Muslims that are actually doing what Allah told them to do. Now if you want to compare the Pope during the 15th-17th century to Muhammad then I might accept that, a false prophet.

Now why would you think that the Reformation happened after the torturing and murdering of people in the name of God. Maybe because they knew that the Catholic Church was wrong, and gotten away from what the Bible was teaching? Now that is actually 100% plausible, and that is how I rationalize it.
[/quote]

You should know more than most that how people interpret things is more important than what they actually say. The Bible has been used to justify all sorts of horrible things just as many other documents have and just as many laws have.

Very interesting that you pick the New Testament though and leave out the Old. What about the Muslims that choose not to kill? What about the Muslims who denounce terrorism and say the terrorists are not acting like them. This is absolutely what you are doing with “Christian” misdeeds. It’s a completely contradictory stance. Those awful things like abortion clinic bombers aren’t on us, but the twin towers are on all Muslims.

It’s amazingly disingenuous at best.

306

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

The names would all be Irish. [/quote]

Does that not tell you something about their faith? Just like the Muslims?
[/quote]

The Catholic Irish were pissed off that the Protestants were siding with a powerful military empire, and engaged in acts of terrorism to punish the occupiers and their collaborators.

So yeah, it tells me that the motivations for violence are identical no matter what region of the world one lives in, or what faith one follows.
[/quote]

And this has everything to do with God, and not ownership of land?
[/quote]

It has everything to do with both. Especially if both sides have a claim to the same land, and they both believe that God is on their side.

Is the ownership of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem a religious issue, or is it merely a real estate dispute?

307

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
[/quote]

This is the stuff that I take issue with.

You don’t “know” this. Because you can’t prove it. And if you can’t prove a claim, why make that claim?[/quote]

There are some answers we will never know, I add, on this side of heaven. My faith is strong in the fact that people 2000 years ago lived and walked with Jesus. That they knew he was God, and he was here to save us. They also were killed because of that belief.

Now you say that is not proof, but yet we believe in the theory of Relativity from a guy that is dead that you never met. Now people have built on that Theory for 50-70 years yet it is considered Gospel to the scientific community. What is the difference? There is no difference other than people were not killed for that belief.
[/quote]

Scientists are always willing to change their theories if something better comes along that invalidates the first theory. Just ask them what the minimum evidence they require to at least doubt the theory of relativity and it probably won’t be much.

Now what type of evidence do you require to reconsider your belief in god?[/quote]

Scientist base their beliefs on Mathematics which is entirely man made. Now to reconsider God it would take a huge amount of evidence to change my mind. I have 5000 years of evidence that proves God exists. Theory of Relativity only 60-70 years. Which one has more evidence?
[/quote]

Your evidence is every bit as man made as mathematics.

308

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

The names would all be Irish. [/quote]

Does that not tell you something about their faith? Just like the Muslims?
[/quote]

The Catholic Irish were pissed off that the Protestants were siding with a powerful military empire, and engaged in acts of terrorism to punish the occupiers and their collaborators.

So yeah, it tells me that the motivations for violence are identical no matter what region of the world one lives in, or what faith one follows.
[/quote]

And this has everything to do with God, and not ownership of land?
[/quote]
Palestinians…cough…[/quote]

And this has what to do with Christians?

309

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
All I was saying is IF he ends up existing AND people burn in hell for not worshiping him then he’s a monumental dickhead and worthy of no one’s praise. [/quote]

Agreed.

If I was given a mind that cannot accept the fantastical elements of the Bible, and then burn for it, then I don’t want anything to do with the petulant child in charge of that system. He can hang with Dahmer.[/quote]

Well, to be fair, you guys seem to take for granted that man’s idea of worship has been correctly translated and communicated to you in a way that is similar to what the omnipotent idea of worship is.

For all we know the Being’s idea of worship may be a concept we haven’t even grasped yet as a species, and don’t even have a word for.

310

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
[/quote]

This is the stuff that I take issue with.

You don’t “know” this. Because you can’t prove it. And if you can’t prove a claim, why make that claim?[/quote]

There are some answers we will never know, I add, on this side of heaven. My faith is strong in the fact that people 2000 years ago lived and walked with Jesus. That they knew he was God, and he was here to save us. They also were killed because of that belief.

Now you say that is not proof, but yet we believe in the theory of Relativity from a guy that is dead that you never met. Now people have built on that Theory for 50-70 years yet it is considered Gospel to the scientific community. What is the difference? There is no difference other than people were not killed for that belief.
[/quote]

You said it yourself: theory.

Physics is theoretical. And yet it holds up to experimentation.

Anyway, the point is not about science. Far be it from me to tell you what Einstein and Bohr said, much less whether it was true or not.

The point is about religion. You say that I will know “the Real Truth” in the end. But you can’t prove it–not even in the way that a physicist can prove quantum mechanics.

So why make a claim that cannot be proved?[/quote]

Because it has already been proven. Why do I have to reprove it? People knew Jesus and walked and talked with him. He was crucified, dead, and then rose again on the 3rd day. There were over 30 witnesses to this. Many of which would rather die than recant their testimony. So it is already proven. Now if you want proof that Jesus is coming again, then we have to wait for that.

311

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Please link to a story about a Christian “extremist” strapping a bomb to his daughter chest and detonating her in the middle of a market? Or sending a down syndrome sufferer to the same fate.[/quote]

Very good, now lets move on to the Jewish, and after that we’ll get to all the “pagans” and their “silly” religions as well. Once we get to the God Kings of the Mediterranean cultures maybe, just MAYBE people will stop acting like Christianity is the only religion who has serious problems within it’s ranks.

312

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.

You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]

And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
[/quote]

This is the stuff that I take issue with.

You don’t “know” this. Because you can’t prove it. And if you can’t prove a claim, why make that claim?[/quote]

There are some answers we will never know, I add, on this side of heaven. My faith is strong in the fact that people 2000 years ago lived and walked with Jesus. That they knew he was God, and he was here to save us. They also were killed because of that belief.

Now you say that is not proof, but yet we believe in the theory of Relativity from a guy that is dead that you never met. Now people have built on that Theory for 50-70 years yet it is considered Gospel to the scientific community. What is the difference? There is no difference other than people were not killed for that belief.
[/quote]

Scientists are always willing to change their theories if something better comes along that invalidates the first theory. Just ask them what the minimum evidence they require to at least doubt the theory of relativity and it probably won’t be much.

Now what type of evidence do you require to reconsider your belief in god?[/quote]

Scientist base their beliefs on Mathematics which is entirely man made. Now to reconsider God it would take a huge amount of evidence to change my mind. I have 5000 years of evidence that proves God exists. Theory of Relativity only 60-70 years. Which one has more evidence?
[/quote]

The germ theory of disease is only about 150 years old, but we have millions of years worth of evidence in the form of fossilized bacteria to support it.

A theory is merely the best explanation of a phenomenon.

The explanations comprising the theory of general relativity may only be 50 or 60 years old, but we have billions of years worth of evidence that demonstrates that the explanation is probably a correct one.

What you have is a document that demonstrates that people have been telling stories about God for over five thousand years.

Would you call the Prose Edda proof of the existence of Odin and Thor?

Or the Bhagavad Gita proof of the existence of Vishnu and Brahma?

These are ancient, purportedly divinely inspired books, telling the stories of gods. Do they not constitute proof of the existence of those gods?

313

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

What about those extremist assholes that murdered the “witches” in Salem?[/quote]

What about those extremist assholes that cut out the hearts of slaves on top of monuments for human sacrifice?

314

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

Because it has already been proven. Why do I have to reprove it? People knew Jesus and walked and talked with him. He was crucified, dead, and then rose again on the 3rd day. There were over 30 witnesses to this. Many of which would rather die than recant their testimony. So it is already proven. Now if you want proof that Jesus is coming again, then we have to wait for that.
[/quote]

It has been proved because it was written down, then?

And the portions of Greek mythology that were written down, they have been proved also?

And the Book of Mormon was written down. Proof.

And the Upanishads? Written down. Proof.

I’ve been through this too many times to do it again in full, but here are the cliff notes:

–That something was written down does not make it true. This is beyond obvious.

–That someone dies for something does not make it true. See: 9/11 Hijackers.

–Some claims require more proof than others if we are going to trust in them. If I meet you on the street, and you tell me your name is Hank, I won’t know for sure, but, given that it would be entirely unremarkable for your name to be Hank–given that other people are named Hank–I accept it. Even if you show me your birth certificate, with the name Hank on it, I don’t know for sure that you didn’t falsify it. But, given what’s at stake (not much at all), I accept it.

Say you claim, however, that your name was Hank, and that yesterday you were spoken to by a pineapple. Well, you’ve given me the same kind of evidence as you did when you told me your name–you just made a statement of fact–but this time, given the weight of your claim, I need more proof. I would, in fact, be an utter fool to believe you.

Which is a long way of saying that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and something being written down is not extraordinary proof. Historical literature is stuffed to the brim with people magically flying, shooting fire, jumping over mountains, coming back from the dead. Do you believe all of it? I assume that you do.

–In the absence of extraordinary proof, “miracle” is best described as simple falsehood, given how unextraordinary lying is, particularly lying about where we come from/what invisible entity is watching over us.

315

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
All I was saying is IF he ends up existing AND people burn in hell for not worshiping him then he’s a monumental dickhead and worthy of no one’s praise. [/quote]

Agreed.

If I was given a mind that cannot accept the fantastical elements of the Bible, and then burn for it, then I don’t want anything to do with the petulant child in charge of that system. He can hang with Dahmer.[/quote]

Well, to be fair, you guys seem to take for granted that man’s idea of worship has been correctly translated and communicated to you in a way that is similar to what the omnipotent idea of worship is.

For all we know the Being’s idea of worship may be a concept we haven’t even grasped yet as a species, and don’t even have a word for. [/quote]

True, and if this is the case, then what I said does not apply. But IF the Kneedraggers and Tiribuli of the world are right, and I’m going to be burning in hell…

Then fuck the guy who put me there.

316

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

So the horrific tortures done in the name of Chrsitanity throughout history don’t count because they aren’t real Christians, but those done in the name of Allah do count because well…it’s not what I believe so double standards are ok?

That REALLY can’t be how you rationalize things. [/quote]

So we will not believe what the Christians say because there is no proof that Jesus is alive other than a book, but we will believe that Christians tortured and murdered people because a book says so? Finish reading my post, because I explain it.

Now lets look at the two Holy books of Christianity and Islam. The New Testament says nothing about killing anyone. The Quaron says to either convert the infidels or kill them. Which is more likely? The Christians that tortured and murdered people were going against what God commanded them to do, or the Muslims that are actually doing what Allah told them to do. Now if you want to compare the Pope during the 15th-17th century to Muhammad then I might accept that, a false prophet.

Now why would you think that the Reformation happened after the torturing and murdering of people in the name of God. Maybe because they knew that the Catholic Church was wrong, and gotten away from what the Bible was teaching? Now that is actually 100% plausible, and that is how I rationalize it.
[/quote]

Your hypothesis hinges on the assumption that the Old Testament laws were nullified by the teachings of Jesus. Jesus purportedly stated that they were not.

In the Old Testament, as in the Qur’an, capital punishment is called for in cases of heresy, apostasy and blasphemy. The faithful are commanded to kill anyone who would try to convert a believer to another faith, and followers of other faiths are fair game to be exploited financially through usury or physically through slavery.

Also, if the Reformation happened as a reaction to the abuses of the Catholic Church, one wod assume that once the Protestant movement gained ground, then the torturings and the killings would have stopped, or at least would not have been perpetrated by Protestants. This clearly was not the case. Not in Europe, and certainly not in early America. [/quote]

Varq, you are one of the few people on here that can make me think, and I thank you for that.

Lets look at your first and second paragraphs. Jesus came to complete the law not abolish it. Lets look at what Jesus said about the commandments. You know this. “The greatest commandment is this, Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and strength. And Equally is love your neighbor as yourself.” What part of that teaching means to kill and torture till someone converts?

Now your third paragraph. Good points, but even the kings and queens of countries were using religion to strengthen there rule over the people even though they were not doing what the Bible and especially Jesus taught. A lot of people were superstitious in early America, I am presuming you are talking about the Salem Witch Trials, and the like, and this I actually thank science for debunking. I am not an anti science guy by any stretch of the imagination. Now lets get back to the point you made. We are all human and make mistakes. The Protestants and Catholics both made mistakes. Did all Protestants and Catholics kill and torture people? No, it was the leadership that did it, and more importantly the upper leadership. Again more break offs happened. I am Southern Baptist which we are neither Catholic nor Protestant. We have our sins also, but no torturing and murders (Lets not confuse the KKK as being a Southern Baptist Organization or Christian in any way shape or form). There are going to be sins of the church because the church is run by people. Not trying to make excuses, because God knows my sins.

317

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
All I was saying is IF he ends up existing AND people burn in hell for not worshiping him then he’s a monumental dickhead and worthy of no one’s praise. [/quote]

Agreed.

If I was given a mind that cannot accept the fantastical elements of the Bible, and then burn for it, then I don’t want anything to do with the petulant child in charge of that system. He can hang with Dahmer.[/quote]

Well, to be fair, you guys seem to take for granted that man’s idea of worship has been correctly translated and communicated to you in a way that is similar to what the omnipotent idea of worship is.

For all we know the Being’s idea of worship may be a concept we haven’t even grasped yet as a species, and don’t even have a word for. [/quote]

True, and if this is the case, then what I said does not apply. But IF the Kneedraggers and Tiribuli of the world are right, and I’m going to be burning in hell…

Then fuck the guy who put me there.[/quote]

Well, if those guys are right you basically just said “fuck myself.”

Know what I’m sayin’ lol?

318

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Well, if those guys are right you basically just said “fuck myself.”

Know what I’m sayin’ lol?
[/quote]

lol.

If those guys are right, I’m fucked either way, so I can really say whatever I want about the Big Man. I might as well enjoy the freedom while I have it.

319

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

So the horrific tortures done in the name of Chrsitanity throughout history don’t count because they aren’t real Christians, but those done in the name of Allah do count because well…it’s not what I believe so double standards are ok?

That REALLY can’t be how you rationalize things. [/quote]

So we will not believe what the Christians say because there is no proof that Jesus is alive other than a book, but we will believe that Christians tortured and murdered people because a book says so? Finish reading my post, because I explain it.

Now lets look at the two Holy books of Christianity and Islam. The New Testament says nothing about killing anyone. The Quaron says to either convert the infidels or kill them. Which is more likely? The Christians that tortured and murdered people were going against what God commanded them to do, or the Muslims that are actually doing what Allah told them to do. Now if you want to compare the Pope during the 15th-17th century to Muhammad then I might accept that, a false prophet.

Now why would you think that the Reformation happened after the torturing and murdering of people in the name of God. Maybe because they knew that the Catholic Church was wrong, and gotten away from what the Bible was teaching? Now that is actually 100% plausible, and that is how I rationalize it.
[/quote]

You should know more than most that how people interpret things is more important than what they actually say. The Bible has been used to justify all sorts of horrible things just as many other documents have and just as many laws have.

Very interesting that you pick the New Testament though and leave out the Old. What about the Muslims that choose not to kill? What about the Muslims who denounce terrorism and say the terrorists are not acting like them. This is absolutely what you are doing with “Christian” misdeeds. It’s a completely contradictory stance. Those awful things like abortion clinic bombers aren’t on us, but the twin towers are on all Muslims.

It’s amazingly disingenuous at best. [/quote]

Disingenuous? Over 30% of Muslims side with the Muslim extremist. Less than .05% of Christians side with Christian Extremists. And if you believe the numbers given of members or believers being the same for Muslims and Christians world wide that would make over 300,000,000 Muslim extremists and only 5,000,000 Christian Extremists. Who was the first to denounce the OKC bombings? That’s right the Christians. Did you see any Christian Church followers dancing in the streets celebrating the bombing? No. Did you see dancing in the Streets of Muslims after the attacks of 9/11? Yes. Did you see any Muslim Mosques coming out and denouncing the bombings? No. Now who is really being disingenuous?

320

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with extremist assholes. [/quote]

You are aware we have Christian extremist assholes ?
[/quote]

Name some that have flown an airplane into two sky scrappers. Also Name some that strap bombs to themselves and walk into a grocery store and blow up people. Do not even bring up the dude from OKC because he did not do that in the name of God.
[/quote]

The names would all be Irish. [/quote]

Does that not tell you something about their faith? Just like the Muslims?
[/quote]

The Catholic Irish were pissed off that the Protestants were siding with a powerful military empire, and engaged in acts of terrorism to punish the occupiers and their collaborators.

So yeah, it tells me that the motivations for violence are identical no matter what region of the world one lives in, or what faith one follows.
[/quote]

And this has everything to do with God, and not ownership of land?
[/quote]

It has everything to do with both. Especially if both sides have a claim to the same land, and they both believe that God is on their side.

Is the ownership of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem a religious issue, or is it merely a real estate dispute?
[/quote]

And are the Jews trying to take the land back by force currently? No. Will they one day? I would say yes.