[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I really can’t say that either the omnipotent creator or space alien theory are all that far from each other on the “this might be a crazy idea, but what if” scale…[/quote]
Agreed.
Also, what if a space alien existed as what we would call an extraphysical entity? Not “bodily” as we understand the term? At what point are a god and a supremely intelligent alien life form no longer two different things?
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
It’s an attempt (and sometimes not a very good one) to explain our existence why there are so many religions with many similarities. [/quote]
There is a theory that explains this all quite well that doesn’t involve space aliens, only coming here once, a long, long time ago…
No offense here, because you’ve been civil here as far as I can see, but I have a hard time taking anyone serious that makes fun of (not saying you did maiden) the idea of an omnipotent creator, yet is totally on board with thinking it possible space aliens landed on Earth, once, a few thousand years ago…
I really can’t say that either the omnipotent creator or space alien theory are all that far from each other on the “this might be a crazy idea, but what if” scale…[/quote]
I completely agree. Key word is "what if."I am on board with the POSSIBILITY of aliens seeding our existence, a creator, evolution leading us to be where we are now. Maybe a higher technology with no feeling or emotion created us. The possibilities are endless. The only fact is that we do not know.
I am just saying “what if” while some involved in a specific religion are saying “what is.”
[/quote]
Yes but, reading your posts, I get the distinct feeling that you view ancient aliens as a more palatable possibility of a creation history than any religions. I’m sure you will probably disagree with me, but based on what I see and read of your postings and personality that is what strikes me. The question is if you are able to admit it. 
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
We all believe in something to help us get through the day and make facing the inevitable (death) a little more palatable. [/quote]
No. I don’t.
Sex helps, tho
[quote]Dunker wrote:
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
We all believe in something to help us get through the day and make facing the inevitable (death) a little more palatable. [/quote]
No. I don’t.[/quote]
You believe that you are not hallucinating or dreaming your own life. You believe that your family and the world around you exist. You believe that the sun will rise tomorrow.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
It’s an attempt (and sometimes not a very good one) to explain our existence why there are so many religions with many similarities. [/quote]
There is a theory that explains this all quite well that doesn’t involve space aliens, only coming here once, a long, long time ago…
No offense here, because you’ve been civil here as far as I can see, but I have a hard time taking anyone serious that makes fun of (not saying you did maiden) the idea of an omnipotent creator, yet is totally on board with thinking it possible space aliens landed on Earth, once, a few thousand years ago…
I really can’t say that either the omnipotent creator or space alien theory are all that far from each other on the “this might be a crazy idea, but what if” scale…[/quote]
I completely agree. Key word is "what if."I am on board with the POSSIBILITY of aliens seeding our existence, a creator, evolution leading us to be where we are now. Maybe a higher technology with no feeling or emotion created us. The possibilities are endless. The only fact is that we do not know.
I am just saying “what if” while some involved in a specific religion are saying “what is.”
[/quote]
Yes but, reading your posts, I get the distinct feeling that you view ancient aliens as a more palatable possibility of a creation history than any religions. I’m sure you will probably disagree with me, but based on what I see and read of your postings and personality that is what strikes me. The question is if you are able to admit it. :)[/quote]
Haha gladly. I think it is more likely that extraterrestrial beings came to our planet and seeded or guided our evolution than an ancient text written by ancient people (that thought the world was flat and Earth was the center of the universe) got everything about our creation exactly right to the point where if you don’t believe in that text you burn for eternity. That being said, I do not believe this religiously or even believe that it is very likely. Just more likely.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Haha gladly. I think it is more likely that extraterrestrial beings came to our planet and seeded or guided our evolution than an ancient text written by ancient people (that thought the world was flat and Earth was the center of the universe) got everything about our creation exactly right to the point where if you don’t believe in that text you burn for eternity. That being said, I do not believe this religiously or even believe that it is very likely. Just more likely. [/quote]
Let’s revisit your earlier comment about the similarities across religions over time. There are a lot of them correct? In fact a lot of the same tales are very similar.
Now atheists tend to us this as an attacking point because they tend to only pick on religions that, in 2013, won’t harm them, or Christianity and the Jews once in awhile too, but not so much. They spend so much time with their feathers in the air peacocking their “AH HA!” moment they don’t ever sit back and think about the big picture.
So let’s just reframe this:
Option a: Omnipotent being has been trying to communicate with humans since the birth of thought, and because human’s are fallible they keep mixing up things, but some general themes hold true for thousands of years. Yes human translation is revised, changed and re-labled over and over, but the general themes are the same.
Option b: Space aliens who would likely have to be thousands of years more advanced than us, which would mean thousands of times less self destructive and stupid, landed on Earth, a handful of times at best, a few thousand years ago, and birthed the species.
You honestly think “b” is more likely? Best case I would say they both sound equally likely.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Haha gladly. I think it is more likely that extraterrestrial beings came to our planet and seeded or guided our evolution than an ancient text written by ancient people (that thought the world was flat and Earth was the center of the universe) got everything about our creation exactly right to the point where if you don’t believe in that text you burn for eternity. That being said, I do not believe this religiously or even believe that it is very likely. Just more likely. [/quote]
Let’s revisit your earlier comment about the similarities across religions over time. There are a lot of them correct? In fact a lot of the same tales are very similar.
Now atheists tend to us this as an attacking point because they tend to only pick on religions that, in 2013, won’t harm them, or Christianity and the Jews once in awhile too, but not so much. They spend so much time with their feathers in the air peacocking their “AH HA!” moment they don’t ever sit back and think about the big picture.
So let’s just reframe this:
Option a: Omnipotent being has been trying to communicate with humans since the birth of thought, and because human’s are fallible they keep mixing up things, but some general themes hold true for thousands of years. Yes human translation is revised, changed and re-labled over and over, but the general themes are the same.
Option b: Space aliens who would likely have to be thousands of years more advanced than us, which would mean thousands of times less self destructive and stupid, landed on Earth, a handful of times at best, a few thousand years ago, and birthed the species.
You honestly think “b” is more likely? Best case I would say they both sound equally likely. [/quote]
haha. A very good post beans. I was wondering something else though Maiden, and if you wouldn’t mind indulging me I was wondering why you view the ancient aliens as more palatable? I’ll refrain from using the term “more likely” because I’m not asking about likelihood.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Religion will exist because, when man doesn’t know the truth, he will invent it.
Si Dieu n’existait pas, il faudrait l’inventer. [/quote]
What’s the truth, frenchy?
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
God would only be ‘mean’ if we didn’t have freewill[/quote]
What about lightning striking and killing a baby? Or a sinkhole swallowing a small girl on Long Island?
I’m not saying that God did these things. I’m saying that, according to you, He knew that they were going to happen, and watched them happen without intervening.[/quote]
Why should he intervene?
And if God exists as does the afterlife, then death is not the end. Wouldn’t it be better to move on to eternal life than to live in this temporary perilous life?
Do you really want God to intervene, if he exists? You want him to save a baby? What else would you have him do?
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Religion will exist because, when man doesn’t know the truth, he will invent it.
Si Dieu n’existait pas, il faudrait l’inventer. [/quote]
What’s the truth, frenchy?[/quote]
The truth is probably just as Voltaire stated: man needs his gods so much that even if gods did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent them.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
The truth is probably just as Voltaire stated: man needs his gods so much that even if gods did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent them. [/quote]
You believe that Varq?
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Religion will exist because, when man doesn’t know the truth, he will invent it.
Si Dieu n’existait pas, il faudrait l’inventer. [/quote]
What’s the truth, frenchy?[/quote]
The truth is probably just as Voltaire stated: man needs his gods so much that even if gods did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent them. [/quote]
Because man has already done just that. Or do Zeus, Horus and Odin actually exist?
[quote]pat wrote:
Do you really want God to intervene, if he exists? You want him to save a baby? [/quote]
Don’t you? Wasn’t that the point of the “Pray to End Abortion” campaign that the right to life group by my office just finished up with?
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Haha gladly. I think it is more likely that extraterrestrial beings came to our planet and seeded or guided our evolution than an ancient text written by ancient people (that thought the world was flat and Earth was the center of the universe) got everything about our creation exactly right to the point where if you don’t believe in that text you burn for eternity. That being said, I do not believe this religiously or even believe that it is very likely. Just more likely. [/quote]
Let’s revisit your earlier comment about the similarities across religions over time. There are a lot of them correct? In fact a lot of the same tales are very similar.
Now atheists tend to us this as an attacking point because they tend to only pick on religions that, in 2013, won’t harm them, or Christianity and the Jews once in awhile too, but not so much. They spend so much time with their feathers in the air peacocking their “AH HA!” moment they don’t ever sit back and think about the big picture.
So let’s just reframe this:
Option a: Omnipotent being has been trying to communicate with humans since the birth of thought, and because human’s are fallible they keep mixing up things, but some general themes hold true for thousands of years. Yes human translation is revised, changed and re-labled over and over, but the general themes are the same.
Option b: Space aliens who would likely have to be thousands of years more advanced than us, which would mean thousands of times less self destructive and stupid, landed on Earth, a handful of times at best, a few thousand years ago, and birthed the species.
You honestly think “b” is more likely? Best case I would say they both sound equally likely. [/quote]
haha. A very good post beans. I was wondering something else though Maiden, and if you wouldn’t mind indulging me I was wondering why you view the ancient aliens as more palatable? I’ll refrain from using the term “more likely” because I’m not asking about likelihood.[/quote]
It’s a fact we are not the only species on this planet. There are many other species of various intelligences right here on Earth. It is also a fact that there are many other galaxies with many other starts that are orbited by other planets. So it is so much of a stretch to believe that it is possible there is another life form on one of those planets with an intelligence greater than our own? We have been a species of technology for thousands of years and we have the technology to clone organisms. Imagine what a species of technology for millions of years could accomplish?
Now we know factually of other species than human, and of other galaxies than the milky way and other planets than Earth. Do we know factually any evidence of god?
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
The truth is probably just as Voltaire stated: man needs his gods so much that even if gods did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent them. [/quote]
You believe that Varq?
[/quote]
I believe that man needs gods, yes.
Otherwise, as push is so fond of saying, he is “just” an animal.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Most religious people in the West are Christian. Most religious people in the Middle East are Muslim. Why? Is it because their gods have jurisdiction over certain areas of the globe? Or is it because those that reside in those areas are raised to believe what their parents do?[/quote]
I find this to be a compelling argument. However, I suppose one could posit that it’s all the same deity with subtle changes in interpretation to meld with environment and lifestyle.
[/quote]
I think this is a possibility. One “God” that arrived on our planet long ago that has been interpreted in many different ways. I think this is why Ancient Alien theory has become so popular. It’s an attempt (and sometimes not a very good one) to explain our existence why there are so many religions with many similarities. [/quote]
You think about what ‘God’ is completely incorrectly. It’s not an explanation or ‘our’ existence. It’s more that existence demands a reason for it’s existence. There is in the end one explanation. Things do not exist as a factor of themselves, that’s impossible.[/quote]
So because existence demands a reason for existing, that void must be filled by God? How does God exist if it cannot exit as a factor of itself?
We are still just barely scratching the surface in the understanding of our universe. To say that there is only one reason for *it’s existence, or even a reason at all, is a little premature.
*edit[/quote]
The universe? I am talking about existence itself. You technically cannot prove the universe exists. You perceive it’s existence. But you are trapped in your perception. Since perception is the only way you can receive information about the physical, it can never been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. That’s the weakness of empiricism. Deductive logic deals with absolutes as it does not rely on perception and consensus to be true. Empiricism relies on consensus and perception. While it’s wonderful and useful, it does not deal in absolutes, it deals in probabilities.
It doesn’t matter how much we know and don’t know about the universe. Reason dictates certain things and it dictates that something cannot come from nothing. The origin of existence itself is either something or it’s nothing. Since it cannot be nothing, it must be something, but that something cannot be like anything else.
You can wrack your brain over the big bang and the universe, and the fundamental question will remain unanswered until you deal with it directly.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
So it is so much of a stretch to believe that it is possible there is another life form on one of those planets with an intelligence greater than our own? [/quote]
I would say that it is more likely than not, there is life out there in the vastness of space much, much more intelligent than us, much more advanced than us, and better off in general.
However, to think they would come here, a couple times thousands of years ago to spawn… Well, us. Yet to rule out the possibility of an omnipotent being? Seems silly. (Not saying YOU are doing this.)
I would think that an alien species advanced enough to get here, stay here and spawn a species of man, woul dhave made us, well less shitty for lack of a better word.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Religion will exist because, when man doesn’t know the truth, he will invent it.
Si Dieu n’existait pas, il faudrait l’inventer. [/quote]
What’s the truth, frenchy?[/quote]
The truth is probably just as Voltaire stated: man needs his gods so much that even if gods did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent them. [/quote]
Because man has already done just that. Or do Zeus, Horus and Odin actually exist? [/quote]
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.
You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
It’s a fact we are not the only species on this planet. There are many other species of various intelligences right here on Earth. It is also a fact that there are many other galaxies with many other starts that are orbited by other planets. So it is so much of a stretch to believe that it is possible there is another life form on one of those planets with an intelligence greater than our own? We have been a species of technology for thousands of years and we have the technology to clone organisms. Imagine what a species of technology for millions of years could accomplish?
Now we know factually of other species than human, and of other galaxies than the milky way and other planets than Earth. Do we know factually any evidence of god?[/quote]
Looking at all that was created I would say yes to your question.
Now you are statistically coming up with your conclusion there must be other intelligent life out there. Your statistics are a bit skewed since we have life here on earth where there is life. Every star that has been found to have a planet orbiting it is completely different from ours. The Gas Giants are next to the star. We have zero proof that intelligent life exists on other planets. Yet you believe that it is more probable than God existing.
Again, if I am wrong there is no harm and no foul, but if you are wrong eternity is going to be a long time. I am not trying to scare you, just make you think long and hard, and search out if God exists. I believe you can ask him and he will show you, but you have to be open to it.
We are all animals