Hell Is Real And Souls Go There

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
221

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

And yet the “problem of evil” is not exactly child’s play. (Neither, of course, are the theodicies offered up in refutation of it.)

[/quote]

There is no evil without a Supreme Being who isn’t evil. Therefore there is no problem of evil without Him defining it.
[/quote]

I don’t follow this.

The problem of evil, as I’m sure you’re aware, has to do with the apparent contradiction of a world created by an omnibenevolent and omnipotent God in which evil yet exists.

The traditional answer, and it’s a good one, is free will. But this doesn’t account for evil not contingent upon the free will of man. Babies being struck by lightning, for example.[/quote]

I don’t really get caught up in the problem of evil because I don’t think God exists and can’t be a meany because to be mean well…you have to exist.

That said if a God exists and has the power to keep people from being tortured for ETERNITY but chooses not to because someone didn’t bow down to him (or how about the people who can’t know him because of language/geography) repeatedly then that “God” is simply a terrorist and we don’t negotiate with terrorists.

222

[quote]H factor wrote:
That said if a God exists and has the power to keep people from being tortured for ETERNITY but chooses not to because someone didn’t bow down to him (or how about the people who can’t know him because of language/geography) repeatedly then that “God” is simply a terrorist and we don’t negotiate with terrorists. [/quote]
Even Dante put some pagans in Heaven.

223

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Speaking of atheists and their faith and religiosity.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Atheist-Megachurch-spreading/2013/11/10/id/535859 [/quote]

Atheist church. Two words that should never go together.

224

[quote]espenl wrote:

Should I start threatening my daughter with hell as well?[/quote]

Threatening your daughter? Too late my friend. You have to start earlier than that. It is better to scream at your testicles about fire and brimstone before anyone has actually been conceived. Just to be on the safe side.

225

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Most religious people in the West are Christian. Most religious people in the Middle East are Muslim. Why? Is it because their gods have jurisdiction over certain areas of the globe? Or is it because those that reside in those areas are raised to believe what their parents do?[/quote]
I find this to be a compelling argument. However, I suppose one could posit that it’s all the same deity with subtle changes in interpretation to meld with environment and lifestyle.

We all believe in something to help us get through the day and make facing the inevitable (death) a little more palatable. I don’t understand the need to proselytize when people are clearly not receptive, though.

226

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
I think Beans should admit that the New England Patriots are a form of societal cancer, and yet I don’t think any less of him for not doing so. Well, only a little less.

.[/quote]

You shut your whore mouth! :wink:

Once brady retires they will be crap like every other team, lol

/hijack

227

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

We all believe in something to help us get through the day and make facing the inevitable (death) a little more palatable. [/quote]

Bingo.

Religion is as old as thought itself, and it isn’t going anywhere. As humans we are fallible and lends itself to religion to such a degree, there is an overwhelming chance that there will always, as long as humans live, be a religion they look to.

They may not call it religion, but it will be there.

The “scholars” in this thread that talk about religion “dying” or going away crack me up. Apparently cursory glances at human history are too much for today’s scholars. Maybe too busy building smart TVs or some such.

228

Religion will exist because, when man doesn’t know the truth, he will invent it.

Si Dieu n’existait pas, il faudrait l’inventer.

229

[quote]cryogen wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]cryogen wrote:

GENOCIDE, PERSECUTION, MURDER and TORTURE. These are the reasons that christianity has spread like a plague, and has survived. However, thankfully, it is dying off as we become more knowledgeable as a species.

As for length of time that religions have been around, maybe you should have a think about the oldest group of religions in the world - hinduism. It breaks your argument about your self serving cult of human sacrifice.[/quote]

If you ever want to be taken seriously then get educated about what you are talking about so you don’t sound like a moron. At this point you’re just a stupid little troll. You post no facts, no logic, no understanding of the matters being discussed. You just ridicule baselessly. You’re just an angry little pointless atheist. [/quote]

I’d be willing to bet that my level of education is significantly higher and filled with more honours than your own. But then again, you’re assuming that your own degree from the community college down the road, a bachelors of kiddy fiddling, is somehow superior to those obtained by true scholars.
[/quote]
A self ascribed scholar, whoopie. And you are a scholar how exactly? lol

So your scholarly learning leads you to an ad hominem attack based on… well nothing. You sound like an idiot to me and your an atheist. So clearly theists don’t have a boon on stupidity.

Don’t recall anybody making the claim they are the oldest. So who cares

[quote]
There are innumerable facts that are there to be observed, and yet you dismiss all of those facts in favour of an iron age creation myth that was plagiarised from its bronze and stone age predecessors.[/quote]

What facts are these? You have proof of something? What’s your claim and where’s your proof?

230

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]cryogen wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]cryogen wrote:

GENOCIDE, PERSECUTION, MURDER and TORTURE. These are the reasons that christianity has spread like a plague, and has survived. However, thankfully, it is dying off as we become more knowledgeable as a species.

As for length of time that religions have been around, maybe you should have a think about the oldest group of religions in the world - hinduism. It breaks your argument about your self serving cult of human sacrifice.[/quote]

If you ever want to be taken seriously then get educated about what you are talking about so you don’t sound like a moron. At this point you’re just a stupid little troll. You post no facts, no logic, no understanding of the matters being discussed. You just ridicule baselessly. You’re just an angry little pointless atheist. [/quote]

I’d be willing to bet that my level of education is significantly higher and filled with more honours than your own. But then again, you’re assuming that your own degree from the community college down the road, a bachelors of kiddy fiddling, is somehow superior to those obtained by true scholars.

As we learn more, the dumb people continue to be drawn to the idiocy of religion. The irrelevance of your own imaginary friend delights me, and though I will likely never be alive to see it, it will be a wonderful day when the last religious idiot on the face of the planet dies, and returns to the dust from whence they came.

The abrahamic religions are hardly the oldest, though one could argue that they’ve done the most conversions at the end of a knife throughout history.

There are innumerable facts that are there to be observed, and yet you dismiss all of those facts in favour of an iron age creation myth that was plagiarised from its bronze and stone age predecessors.[/quote]

Lots of vitriol and ad hominem and very little evidence of intellectual acumen coming from a feller whose “level of education is significantly higher and filled with more honours”…allegedly.[/quote]

I love it when people brag on their own genius. Says a lot about themselves. “Hey look at me, I am a genius!”

231

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

And yet the “problem of evil” is not exactly child’s play. (Neither, of course, are the theodicies offered up in refutation of it.)

[/quote]

There is no evil without a Supreme Being who isn’t evil. Therefore there is no problem of evil without Him defining it.
[/quote]

I don’t follow this.

The problem of evil, as I’m sure you’re aware, has to do with the apparent contradiction of a world created by an omnibenevolent and omnipotent God in which evil yet exists.

The traditional answer, and it’s a good one, is free will. But this doesn’t account for evil not contingent upon the free will of man. Babies being struck by lightning, for example.[/quote]

I don’t really get caught up in the problem of evil because I don’t think God exists and can’t be a meany because to be mean well…you have to exist.

That said if a God exists and has the power to keep people from being tortured for ETERNITY but chooses not to because someone didn’t bow down to him (or how about the people who can’t know him because of language/geography) repeatedly then that “God” is simply a terrorist and we don’t negotiate with terrorists. [/quote]

I thought you just said you don’t get caught up in the problem of evil and then you went straight to the problem of evil?
If you have freewill and choose to be evil, whose fault is that? All else aside, whose fault is that?
If people freely choose to be evil should there be no justice for it?
So for instance, these militias in the Congo who took child slaves, have verifiable gang raped little children, burned entire villages, dismembered and disfigured people, burned schools with the kids in it, what should happen to a person who does things like that? And for how long? 20 years in prison?
If that sounds like an extreme example, it’s sadly common in that region.

What if someone rapes and murders your kids, wife, mother, family? What should happen to them? Shall we treat them with kindness and mercy?

You should not have brought up the problem of evil.

232

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
IMO a Religion is not a belief in God . I think if done right Religion could be an asset to society [/quote]

Theism is a belief is God.

233

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Most religious people in the West are Christian. Most religious people in the Middle East are Muslim. Why? Is it because their gods have jurisdiction over certain areas of the globe? Or is it because those that reside in those areas are raised to believe what their parents do?[/quote]
I find this to be a compelling argument. However, I suppose one could posit that it’s all the same deity with subtle changes in interpretation to meld with environment and lifestyle.

[/quote]

I think this is a possibility. One “God” that arrived on our planet long ago that has been interpreted in many different ways. I think this is why Ancient Alien theory has become so popular. It’s an attempt (and sometimes not a very good one) to explain our existence why there are so many religions with many similarities.

234

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

…Obviously religions in general riles you up for some reason…

[/quote]

This is the quintessential type thread for flushing out all the folks who have been oh so offended by religion in their younger days.

Now that they are such free enlightened spirits with magnificently crafted thoughts about the silliness of faith they can participate in their internet crusade to vanquish their former oppressors.

The whining, vitriol, sarcasm, condescension and atheist.com talking points have all trundled across these pages before. It’s boring.
[/quote]

My favorite is “God is a big meany therefore he doesn’t exist”, because if God existed he would never let bad things happen. I do wonder where the hell does this idea come from.[/quote]

In my opinion the question of “does God exist?” should be independent of whether you happen to like the kind of entity God is. I’ve spent literally my whole life swallowing truths–about life, people, chores, friends, women, you name it–that I didn’t like or hated or wished weren’t true. They’re still true. Thus in my opinion if one is going to approach the question of God existing they should divorce the idea that they don’t “like” God’s actions or personality from whether or not he exists. There are really two questions: 1) does God exist and 2) what kind of God is he.

Besides which, if God exists and IS mean…what are you as a puny little mortal going to do about it anyway? This sort of comment always amuses me for the superficial reasoning it displays. There are also a number of theistic and Christian comments that do the same thing.[/quote]

God would only be ‘mean’ if we didn’t have freewill, which is a whole other thing to talk about. If we have freewill we are the authors of our own destiny. So there are 2 questions really which in turn answers the third, 1) Does God exist? 2) Does Freewill exist.

As far as existence, well given that something exists and the something depends on something else for it’s existence, this regression will inevitably lead to a conclusion of an Uncaused-Cause. Yes, I will for the millionth time argue Cosmology if it comes up. I will bring it up every time this question comes up.

235

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Most religious people in the West are Christian. Most religious people in the Middle East are Muslim. Why? Is it because their gods have jurisdiction over certain areas of the globe? Or is it because those that reside in those areas are raised to believe what their parents do?[/quote]
I find this to be a compelling argument. However, I suppose one could posit that it’s all the same deity with subtle changes in interpretation to meld with environment and lifestyle.

[/quote]

I think this is a possibility. One “God” that arrived on our planet long ago that has been interpreted in many different ways. I think this is why Ancient Alien theory has become so popular. It’s an attempt (and sometimes not a very good one) to explain our existence why there are so many religions with many similarities. [/quote]

You think about what ‘God’ is completely incorrectly. It’s not an explanation or ‘our’ existence. It’s more that existence demands a reason for it’s existence. There is in the end one explanation. Things do not exist as a factor of themselves, that’s impossible.

236

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Most religious people in the West are Christian. Most religious people in the Middle East are Muslim. Why? Is it because their gods have jurisdiction over certain areas of the globe? Or is it because those that reside in those areas are raised to believe what their parents do?[/quote]
I find this to be a compelling argument. However, I suppose one could posit that it’s all the same deity with subtle changes in interpretation to meld with environment and lifestyle.

[/quote]

I think this is a possibility. One “God” that arrived on our planet long ago that has been interpreted in many different ways. I think this is why Ancient Alien theory has become so popular. It’s an attempt (and sometimes not a very good one) to explain our existence why there are so many religions with many similarities. [/quote]

You think about what ‘God’ is completely incorrectly. It’s not an explanation or ‘our’ existence. It’s more that existence demands a reason for it’s existence. There is in the end one explanation. Things do not exist as a factor of themselves, that’s impossible.[/quote]

So because existence demands a reason for existing, that void must be filled by God? How does God exist if it cannot exit as a factor of itself?

We are still just barely scratching the surface in the understanding of our universe. To say that there is only one reason for *it’s existence, or even a reason at all, is a little premature.

*edit

237

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
It’s an attempt (and sometimes not a very good one) to explain our existence why there are so many religions with many similarities. [/quote]

There is a theory that explains this all quite well that doesn’t involve space aliens, only coming here once, a long, long time ago…

No offense here, because you’ve been civil here as far as I can see, but I have a hard time taking anyone serious that makes fun of (not saying you did maiden) the idea of an omnipotent creator, yet is totally on board with thinking it possible space aliens landed on Earth, once, a few thousand years ago…

I really can’t say that either the omnipotent creator or space alien theory are all that far from each other on the “this might be a crazy idea, but what if” scale…

238

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
It’s an attempt (and sometimes not a very good one) to explain our existence why there are so many religions with many similarities. [/quote]

There is a theory that explains this all quite well that doesn’t involve space aliens, only coming here once, a long, long time ago…

No offense here, because you’ve been civil here as far as I can see, but I have a hard time taking anyone serious that makes fun of (not saying you did maiden) the idea of an omnipotent creator, yet is totally on board with thinking it possible space aliens landed on Earth, once, a few thousand years ago…

I really can’t say that either the omnipotent creator or space alien theory are all that far from each other on the “this might be a crazy idea, but what if” scale…[/quote]

I completely agree. Key word is "what if."I am on board with the POSSIBILITY of aliens seeding our existence, a creator, evolution leading us to be where we are now. Maybe a higher technology with no feeling or emotion created us. The possibilities are endless. The only fact is that we do not know.

I am just saying “what if” while some involved in a specific religion are saying “what is.”

239

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
That said if a God exists and has the power to keep people from being tortured for ETERNITY but chooses not to because someone didn’t bow down to him (or how about the people who can’t know him because of language/geography) repeatedly then that “God” is simply a terrorist and we don’t negotiate with terrorists. [/quote]
Even Dante put some pagans in Heaven. [/quote]

Haha. True.

On the other hand there’s the absurdity of a human telling an intergalactic creator they won’t negotiate with them because they’re a terrorist…not the strongest sense of self preservation eh? :wink: lol

240

[quote]pat wrote:

God would only be ‘mean’ if we didn’t have freewill[/quote]

What about lightning striking and killing a baby? Or a sinkhole swallowing a small girl on Long Island?

I’m not saying that God did these things. I’m saying that, according to you, He knew that they were going to happen, and watched them happen without intervening.