Hell Is Real And Souls Go There

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
201

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]espenl wrote:
It is just an interesting thought experiment, it seems many here have grown up with promises of eternal heaven or hell based on their actions. I rather try to show my close ones that I love them today, because when they are dead I will never see them again…

[/quote]

Why bother? You’re just an evolved animal that’s here on a planet with other evolved animals for a few decades at best.

Your “close ones” that you love today are the same.
[/quote]
These evolved animals have survived by taking care of the flock, and living only a few decades makes it even more important to make the most of the time we have. If I had all eternity to spend with my loved ones, there would be less incentive to do so.

202

IMO a Religion is not a belief in God . I think if done right Religion could be an asset to society

204

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I don’t really understand why it’s a concern to non-believers.

I’ve also never understood the idea that believers “waste” their lives believing in the things we do. How does one waste a life that has no objective values, obligations, or ends? If there is no universal law that says we must live as Dawkinistas, then why must we, to make “proper use” of our time?

In a godless universe, with no objective morality/laws, any state of living is “right.” Keeping in mind that no way of living can be truly “wrong.” It just is.[/quote]

It is not a binary proposition, either the Christian/Abrahamic God or nothing all. There are an infinite number of beliefs that fit in between.[/quote]

Not sure I follow. In this post I’m specifically addressing the idea that religion in general is a waste (a non-religious viewpoint). How can it be a waste, if there is no objective authority on how life MUST be lived?
[/quote]

I assumed that by believers you meant Christian or Abrahamic believers. If not, and by non-believers you refer specifically to atheists, then I agree completely. Though, as I’ve always said, atheists are as much “believers,” or “faith leapers,” as are theists.

But if you take someone like me, for example. I am ultimately agnostic, as I believe everyone should be, but I am inclined to suspect that the physical world is contingent upon some kind of extra-physical reality or being. This I call God. And this “God” of mine allows for the possibility of objective morality, which in turn allows for the possibility of "right’ and “wrong” ways to live.

So, I can say, without contradicting the tenets of my weltanschauung, that I think that Symeon the Stylite went about living in the “wrong” way, and a shame it was.

206

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

…Obviously religions in general riles you up for some reason…

[/quote]

This is the quintessential type thread for flushing out all the folks who have been oh so offended by religion in their younger days.

Now that they are such free enlightened spirits with magnificently crafted thoughts about the silliness of faith they can participate in their internet crusade to vanquish their former oppressors.

The whining, vitriol, sarcasm, condescension and atheist.com talking points have all trundled across these pages before. It’s boring.
[/quote]

My favorite is “God is a big meany therefore he doesn’t exist”, because if God existed he would never let bad things happen. I do wonder where the hell does this idea come from.[/quote]

It comes from neurons bouncing around the cranium of a created being who thinks he’s so enlightened about what God should and should not be despite what that God says He is and isn’t.[/quote]

And yet the “problem of evil” is not exactly child’s play. (Neither, of course, are the theodicies offered up in refutation of it.)

I recommend “rebellion,” from The Brothers Karamazov, to anyone who hasn’t read it. The Grand Inquisitor, which if I recall correctly is the chapter immediately following, also, though that one has less to do with theodicy.

209

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

…Obviously religions in general riles you up for some reason…

[/quote]

This is the quintessential type thread for flushing out all the folks who have been oh so offended by religion in their younger days.

Now that they are such free enlightened spirits with magnificently crafted thoughts about the silliness of faith they can participate in their internet crusade to vanquish their former oppressors.

The whining, vitriol, sarcasm, condescension and atheist.com talking points have all trundled across these pages before. It’s boring.
[/quote]

My favorite is “God is a big meany therefore he doesn’t exist”, because if God existed he would never let bad things happen. I do wonder where the hell does this idea come from.[/quote]

In my opinion the question of “does God exist?” should be independent of whether you happen to like the kind of entity God is. I’ve spent literally my whole life swallowing truths–about life, people, chores, friends, women, you name it–that I didn’t like or hated or wished weren’t true. They’re still true. Thus in my opinion if one is going to approach the question of God existing they should divorce the idea that they don’t “like” God’s actions or personality from whether or not he exists. There are really two questions: 1) does God exist and 2) what kind of God is he.

Besides which, if God exists and IS mean…what are you as a puny little mortal going to do about it anyway? This sort of comment always amuses me for the superficial reasoning it displays. There are also a number of theistic and Christian comments that do the same thing.

210

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

In my opinion the question of “does God exist?” should be independent of whether you happen to like the kind of entity God is. I’ve spent literally my whole life swallowing truths–about life, people, chores, friends, women, you name it–that I didn’t like or hated or wished weren’t true. They’re still true. Thus in my opinion if one is going to approach the question of God existing they should divorce the idea that they don’t “like” God’s actions or personality from whether or not he exists. There are really two questions: 1) does God exist and 2) what kind of God is he.

Besides which, if God exists and IS mean…what are you as a puny little mortal going to do about it anyway? This sort of comment always amuses me for the superficial reasoning it displays. There are also a number of theistic and Christian comments that do the same thing.[/quote]

Very good post.

212

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

…Obviously religions in general riles you up for some reason…

[/quote]

This is the quintessential type thread for flushing out all the folks who have been oh so offended by religion in their younger days.

Now that they are such free enlightened spirits with magnificently crafted thoughts about the silliness of faith they can participate in their internet crusade to vanquish their former oppressors.

The whining, vitriol, sarcasm, condescension and atheist.com talking points have all trundled across these pages before. It’s boring.
[/quote]

My favorite is “God is a big meany therefore he doesn’t exist”, because if God existed he would never let bad things happen. I do wonder where the hell does this idea come from.[/quote]

It comes from neurons bouncing around the cranium of a created being who thinks he’s so enlightened about what God should and should not be despite what that God says He is and isn’t.[/quote]

And yet the “problem of evil” is not exactly child’s play. (Neither, of course, are the theodicies offered up in refutation of it.)
[/quote]

No question.

213

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

…I am ultimately agnostic, as I believe everyone should be…

[/quote]

Hmmm…sounds like the words of someone who believes in converting folks.
[/quote]

Well, I sort of do. Conversation is about the enlightenment of the self, but it’s also about persuasion. So really anybody making their case about religion is in some way trying to “win.” Then again, I can believe that everyone should think a certain way without thinking it my right to try to make them do so, and don’t begrudge anyone their view of the world. I think Beans should admit that the New England Patriots are a form of societal cancer, and yet I don’t think any less of him for not doing so. Well, only a little less.

But yes, I think every rational person should admit–not to me, but to themselves–that, ultimately, they simply don’t know.

214

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

In my opinion the question of “does God exist?” should be independent of whether you happen to like the kind of entity God is. I’ve spent literally my whole life swallowing truths–about life, people, chores, friends, women, you name it–that I didn’t like or hated or wished weren’t true. They’re still true. Thus in my opinion if one is going to approach the question of God existing they should divorce the idea that they don’t “like” God’s actions or personality from whether or not he exists. There are really two questions: 1) does God exist and 2) what kind of God is he.

Besides which, if God exists and IS mean…what are you as a puny little mortal going to do about it anyway? This sort of comment always amuses me for the superficial reasoning it displays. There are also a number of theistic and Christian comments that do the same thing.[/quote]

Very good post.
[/quote]

This is a good post.

The first of your two questions is the one that interests me, because I don’t think the second has ever been answered, and it cannot be illuminated by rationality in the same way.

215

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

And yet the “problem of evil” is not exactly child’s play. (Neither, of course, are the theodicies offered up in refutation of it.)

[/quote]

There is no evil without a Supreme Being who isn’t evil. Therefore there is no problem of evil without Him defining it.
[/quote]

I don’t follow this.

The problem of evil, as I’m sure you’re aware, has to do with the apparent contradiction of a world created by an omnibenevolent and omnipotent God in which evil yet exists.

The traditional answer, and it’s a good one, is free will. But this doesn’t account for evil not contingent upon the free will of man. Babies being struck by lightning, for example.

216

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]cryogen wrote:

GENOCIDE, PERSECUTION, MURDER and TORTURE. These are the reasons that christianity has spread like a plague, and has survived. However, thankfully, it is dying off as we become more knowledgeable as a species.

As for length of time that religions have been around, maybe you should have a think about the oldest group of religions in the world - hinduism. It breaks your argument about your self serving cult of human sacrifice.[/quote]

If you ever want to be taken seriously then get educated about what you are talking about so you don’t sound like a moron. At this point you’re just a stupid little troll. You post no facts, no logic, no understanding of the matters being discussed. You just ridicule baselessly. You’re just an angry little pointless atheist. [/quote]

I’d be willing to bet that my level of education is significantly higher and filled with more honours than your own. But then again, you’re assuming that your own degree from the community college down the road, a bachelors of kiddy fiddling, is somehow superior to those obtained by true scholars.

As we learn more, the dumb people continue to be drawn to the idiocy of religion. The irrelevance of your own imaginary friend delights me, and though I will likely never be alive to see it, it will be a wonderful day when the last religious idiot on the face of the planet dies, and returns to the dust from whence they came.

The abrahamic religions are hardly the oldest, though one could argue that they’ve done the most conversions at the end of a knife throughout history.

There are innumerable facts that are there to be observed, and yet you dismiss all of those facts in favour of an iron age creation myth that was plagiarised from its bronze and stone age predecessors.

217

[quote]cryogen wrote:
As we learn more, the dumb people continue to be drawn to the idiocy of religion. The irrelevance of your own imaginary friend delights me, and though I will likely never be alive to see it…[/quote]

“Likely?” It’s safe to say you won’t be. It (religious orientation/thoughts) seems to be a more widespread predisposition than homosexuality.

220

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Lots of vitriol and ad hominem and very little evidence of intellectual acumen coming from a feller whose “level of education is significantly higher and filled with more honours”…allegedly.[/quote]

Yeah, it’s been my experience that the real cream of the crop tends not to advertise its creaminess.