Heavyweight UFC Fighter vs Half Dozen Guys?

Sentoguy · June 27, 2012, 6:17pm

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
THIS…is very laughable. You guys can’t contribute anything of worth…and compensate with weak attempts at discrediting the backgrounds of those that at least contribute worthy posts. They are not furiously jacking off because of the OPINION of ONE professional MMA fighter. They are speaking from their OWN experience.

There are PLENTY of posters here that take what ever discipline and/or profession they come from VERY seriously and devote legit time. No knock on Tom…I like him as a fighter…but he is by no means an expert on self-defense/tactical matters. That’s not saying he probably couldn’t hold his own in an altercation…but that’s not where his devotion of time is. His time goes towards fighting for sport.
[/quote]Let’s not act like the combat forum is some bastion of martial arts purity. There is rarely anything of hood posted here. There is rarely people really helping each other out. Besides talking about fights or fighters, there isn’t many good threads posted.

The combat forum discredits itself when people would rather spend a bunch of time arguing hypothetical BS in certain scenarios.

And you may not be trying to disrespect Tom, but it sure as hell sounds like it. I mean the guy starts posting advice for free and as soon as someone disagrees (with an opinion on a hypothetical scenario) they’re arguing with him about it, and he stops posting. Do you think that’s ok? I don’t. I mean why waste your time when you’re a pro fighter arguing over a hypothetical self defense BS scenarios with people. I mean so what if you disagree? Who cares? He’s new. Let him do his own thing and get to know people.

And who are these guys that train everyday with guys at Lawlor’s level or higher? I know we have a few MMA guys, but I think they are amateur fighters still. I know we have some guys with years of experience in their respective art, but I don’t think we have anyone who is a pro MMA fighter or that spars and grapples with high level pro MMA fighters. I also don’t even think we have a pro boxer on here. Humble might be a pro fighter in Muay Thai. I think he mentioned having 15 or 20 years of experience.

I’m just not seeing the high level discussion in the combat forum that you’re talking about. I really only think there are maybe a handful of fighters on here and they don’t post here regularly. Just occasionally. Probably going to piss some people off with this but it’s the truth.[/quote]

If you think I disrespected Tom Lawlor…then…really…there is nothing to discuss with you. Seriously…you missed the biggest frustration with my rant…which a huge chunk agrees in with your criticisms of this forum. [/quote]
I don’t think you disrespected him. I said it sounds like it. Like it was ok to disagree and argue with him over it. Like his opinion is worthless in the face of people posting their 1 or 2 personal experiences. I just don’t think it was worth arguing with someone new who was a pro and getting them to leave.[/quote]

That’s why I didn’t continue the argument with Lawler in his thread but chose to instead continue it here in this thread. Like you said he was new to the forum and most likely naive about the hornet’s nest he was stepping into even answering the question. It was not his area of expertise, but he probably figured that giving his opinion on the subject couldn’t hurt. And to me perfectly honest it shouldn’t have. He’s entitled to his opinion, just as others are entitled to theirs and to disagree with his. At the same time though I didn’t think he was here to engage in hypothetical arguments but instead just to try to offer some help to other aspiring MMA fighters and probably to get a little free publicity too (nothing wrong with that).

I haven’t been on his thread in a while and don’t know if it continued to become bogged down with arguing over this topic or not, but I doubt that would be enough to drive Lawler from posting on this site. And if it was then I think he’s gonna realize pretty quickly that such experiences are par for the course when it comes to posting on Internet forums. More likely though he is probably training hard for an upcoming fight and just hasn’t had time to post lately.

Sentoguy · June 27, 2012, 6:33pm

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
The actual average American man is 34 years old, 5’9" 175. Runs an 8 minute and change mile. Has a roughly 180 bench. 13 in biceps, 40 in chest, 34 in waist.[/quote]

Multiply that by six…lol. Seriously though…you can’t really make assumptions that someone is “average” and is not capable of serious violence(unarmed or not)…and that’s just the physicality. [/quote]

I think if there is any area that the “average” guy could potentially be lacking enough it wouldn’t be physical. I doubt any average male would lack the capacity to drop even the biggest HW MMA fighter with a soccer kick to the testicles, or momentarily (or even permanently) blind them with a thumb or finger to the eyes. And once the MMA fighter is hurt/injured/disoriented from such an attack they will instantly become less mobile, have less power in their strikes, and therefore in a lot of trouble.

Mentally though I guess I could see an argument for the case that the “average” person might lack the killer instinct to do what would be necessary to take out the HW. Or they might hesitate to engage based on fear of being hurt themselves, or facing legal repercussions for doing so. That’s why I qualified that “if they were motivated to do the HW harm” in my original response.

Big_Boss · June 27, 2012, 6:41pm

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
The actual average American man is 34 years old, 5’9" 175. Runs an 8 minute and change mile. Has a roughly 180 bench. 13 in biceps, 40 in chest, 34 in waist.[/quote]

Multiply that by six…lol. Seriously though…you can’t really make assumptions that someone is “average” and is not capable of serious violence(unarmed or not)…and that’s just the physicality. [/quote]

I think if there is any area that the “average” guy could potentially be lacking enough it wouldn’t be physical. I doubt any average male would lack the capacity to drop even the biggest HW MMA fighter with a soccer kick to the testicles, or momentarily (or even permanently) blind them with a thumb or finger to the eyes. And once the MMA fighter is hurt/injured/disoriented from such an attack they will instantly become less mobile, have less power in their strikes, and therefore in a lot of trouble.

Mentally though I guess I could see an argument for the case that the “average” person might lack the killer instinct to do what would be necessary to take out the HW. Or they might hesitate to engage based on fear of being hurt themselves, or facing legal repercussions for doing so. That’s why I qualified that “if they were motivated to do the HW harm” in my original response.[/quote]

Exactly…“motivated” goes a long way. People are pre-facing “average” from just a physical standpoint. Huge mistake,imo.

fuglee · June 27, 2012, 8:48pm

Physicality aside, I love that the question is assuming no weapons. 30% of my friends always have a knife on them. 20% of them usually conceal carry pistols. Most of these guys are “average” or below physically. All of them are suburban family types. Choose 6 at random and you’ll likely have 2-3 weapons in the bunch. This isn’t Texas either.

People who conceal carry pistols do it for defense, as do a lot of people who carry knives. If some 240lb monster storms up to them unprovoked at a BBQ or something, you can guarantee they’ll be getting itchy fingers before the first punch is thrown.

The question should have been: Could a UFC HW take on six, 120lb anemics at a nude beach?

justrob · June 27, 2012, 9:59pm

[quote]fuglee wrote:
The question should have been: Could a UFC HW take on six, 120lb anemics at a nude beach?[/quote]

They could be at a nude beach and still be carrying. Obviously you’ve never seen a prison doco

Big_Boss · June 27, 2012, 10:17pm

[quote]justrob wrote:

[quote]fuglee wrote:
The question should have been: Could a UFC HW take on six, 120lb anemics at a nude beach?[/quote]

They could be at a nude beach and still be carrying. Obviously you’ve never seen a prison doco
[/quote]

LOL…I wish I had just seen it in a docu…and not from experience.

Charged · July 1, 2012, 9:48pm

No relevance at all, the op wasn’t going on about professionally trained people with weapons. He was on about average joes, unarmed.

Big_Boss · July 1, 2012, 9:55pm

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Posted this in the other thread, but I think it has “special relevance” to this cluster fuck of a thread.

Hmm…I know people will cry…oh…those are not AVERAGE guys without weapons. But regardless…this is something that stands out the most:

@5:23…Brian Stann…a Silver Star Marine…and UFC contender. I’m pretty sure as an active duty Marine he was legit badass…and no doubt was “sharp” in his training,etc. BUT notice…he is so used to training for sport that he fairs no better than any of the other UFC guys. I guess some instinct kicked in when he latched on to the one Marine he pummeled with knees. But he gets the same tunnel vision and is “killed” from behind. Just an observation…but relevant one.

Charged · July 1, 2012, 9:57pm

Yeah cause he really went with it with the laughter and the messing around saying break. Notice they dont show Rashad or Forrest? I wonder why?

Charged · July 1, 2012, 10:06pm

Give me the times when Forrest and Rashad are fighting, and the times why say they got their arses kicked?
Not that it matters because, they are trained with weapons, and Gonzaga is the only HW, and they couldn’t even take him down rofl.

Big_Boss · July 1, 2012, 10:15pm

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Charged wrote:
Yeah cause he really went with it with the laughter and the messing around saying break. Notice they dont show Rashad or Forrest? I wonder why?[/quote]

Dude what are you even watching? They got their asses kicked, then admitted that they got their asses kicked.

If you’re too stupid to understand what’s occurring you shouldn’t post. Clearly, you’re too stupid. [/quote]

Yeah…I’m sure they were laughing after…and maybe because Stann zoned out…lol…which was pretty funny. He does have that killer instinct…haha.

However…Stann wasn’t laughing @ 4:40 when he got his ass handed to him 1-on-1.

Charged · July 2, 2012, 10:33pm

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
. I guess some instinct kicked in when he latched on to the one Marine he pummeled with knees. But he gets the same tunnel vision and is “killed” from behind. Just an observation…but relevant one. [/quote]
However…Stann wasn’t laughing @ 4:40 when he got his ass handed to him 1-on-1. [/quote]

SKELAC · July 12, 2012, 1:55pm

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
The actual average American man is 34 years old, 5’9" 175. Runs an 8 minute and change mile. Has a roughly 180 bench. 13 in biceps, 40 in chest, 34 in waist.[/quote]

This stats are from 5 years ago.I bet things changed.

Aussie_Davo · July 12, 2012, 3:59pm

More often than not when you’ve heard anecdotes about fighters dispatching opponents left right and center in bar brawls, they’ve had several advantages in their favor. For example, I recall some incident where mike tyson got into a street altercation and ended up dropping 3 guys and badly fucking up ones eye. Might have even been the Mitch Green incident I think.

When we consider this, Mike probably had several factors in his favor that allowed him to come out on top:

Psychological. The dude was known by everyone to be a destroyer of men, chances are one of these dudes was the mouth, the other two were shitting themselves and weren’t really ready to fully commit.
Aggression. Tyson has spoke openly about how much fear he feels when confronted, and with him it basically translates to going from 0 to 100 in a split second. The moment these guys started running their mouths, he probably started swinging, giving him the element of surprise and taking them preemptively.
He didn’t square off and he didn’t stick around. He never waited for them to have a go, he just exploded on them and then did the 100m dash.

I respect the fuck out of Geoff Thompson’s writings, and he says the only reason he came out on top so many times in multiple opponent situations when he worked as a doorman during some of the most violent periods in London, was because he always took advantage of his opponents not being ready. He would deceive them into thinking he was going to back down, or ask them a innocent question, then bam, he would be stomping their head into the carpet while they were still trying to make sense of the situation.

And he always highlighted the importance of having people to watch his back in case shit went south (and it often did).

People are fucking delusional, taking on multiple opponents is some chop socky film shit, or extreme luck. The only legit tactic for a multiple opponent situation is to either ambush them or not fucking get into dumb situations like that.

yolo84 · July 12, 2012, 9:30pm

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

When we consider this, Mike probably had several factors in his favor that allowed him to come out on top:

I respect the fuck out of Geoff Thompson’s writings, and he says the only reason he came out on top so many times in multiple opponent situations when he worked as a doorman during some of the most violent periods in London, was because he always took advantage of his opponents not being ready. He would deceive them into thinking he was going to back down, or ask them a innocent question, then bam, he would be stomping their head into the carpet while they were still trying to make sense of the situation.

And he always highlighted the importance of having people to watch his back in case shit went south (and it often did).
[/quote]

Main factor for Mike is that he was one of the heaviest punchers in history, which probably helped.

On Thompson: not entirely accurate. It’s unfair to say the “only” reason was because his opponents were not ready and also that he always deceived them by being passive. He says many times he would be extremely aggressive shouting and swearing etc to intimidate.

Also, many times his opponents were ready, particularly in multiple opponent situations where they had insstigated and surrounded him.

By FAR the biggest point Thompson makes beyond behaviour in an interview etc, is punch as hard as possible to the head in all situations. Especially in multiple attacker scenarios he always says start punching and don’t fucking stop.

With regards to your “delusional” comment, I agree to an extent, but fundamentally you are wrong. People can and do survive multiple attacker situations. I have personaly, mentioned in another thread, and I personally know two other guys who have, including one who dropped 3 doormen in a row. I’ve heard of quite a few more. The main and only common factor in all is that each person had heavy hands and was not shy in using them.

Goes without saying that it is to be avoided though. The risks are obviously extreme.

SKELAC · July 13, 2012, 1:37pm

[quote]yolo84 wrote: