I know there have been topics on this in the past, I couldn’t find anything recent and I am much less informed about fuel sources than most people. And of the 10 or so topics I found none of them really seemed to address what I was wondering OR reach an agreement.
So, I was wondering what the safety is between propane and kero as a fuel source for heating a 2-car garage gym.
I only have 120v outlets, so electric (my first choice) is out as smaller space heaters don’t do much of anything out there.
Lowes rep told me a small propane fan forced heater (ones that look like a canon/missile) would be the best option, but I don’t know how much ventilation that would require (I’m not gonna open the garage door as it would defeat the purpose of heating it).
Right now, it is 11f outside and 24f in the garage. I’m hoping for something I can turn on for about 20-30 mins before I start in order to heat it up to 35-40 and then I can just leave it on for another 20-30 until I get suitably warmed up. If it can heat it up to 45-50 while its in the teens outside that would be awesome.
Any ideas? Or any issues I need to be aware of in terms of pros/cons of kero vs propane and safety issues I need to be aware of for storing that fuel/tanks?
Thanks for any help you guys can give.
Wool socks, a wool stocking cap, a pair of Mechanix gloves, lightweight and middleweight long underwear bottoms, and lightweight long underwear top seems to be enough for me once I’m warmed up a bit from lifting. I’ll start out with a fleece jacket on before that point. This has been fine for me down to 5f.
Yeh. I know there’s the whole “man up and lift” aspect of it. But if there is a reasonable option for 100-200 to take it from shitty to comfortable then I’m all for it. The only thing I’m worried about with what Lowes suggested is:
Are the propane fumes going to be an issue if all I’m doing is cracking a window (it is a garage, so it’s not like it’s air tight anyway)
Where and how do I store propane after the winter and/or when the heater isn’t in use? (Can I just stick the tank in the basement in the summer? or put it in a shelf in the garage?)
I’m actually comfortable. It gets a little hot even.
But propane-wise, I’d just make sure the tank is OBD compliant and that you keep it turned off tight and capped when not in use. And stored upright. It would be better to store the tank somewhere ventilated, e.g., outside, but the risk is actually pretty low as far as fumes with the new tanks.
EDIT: as far as CO issues with a heater in a garage, I don’t know. Just for storing the tank when it’s off.
I have part of my garage heated and I use an electric heater. I go out and turn it on, wait 20-30 minutes then go in. The heater runs on 110V and doesn’t draw a lot. I have it on a shared 20 amp circuit. Anything like kerosene or propane heaters, I wouldn’t even think of using.
One guy I knew, his garage was adjacent to his house and he ran a length of baseboard heat off his hot water heater, worked out very well. A few guys I know that are seriously into cars have professionally-installed natural gas heaters in them.
Testy’s heater looks pretty decent. I would not use a portable kerosene/propane heater. Those are for workspaces that have lots of ventilation, not an enclosed area where you will likely increase your breathing.
Keep in mind that if you’re not going to keep the temperature in garage constant, you will get condensation on all of your equipment. Rust and ice suck when they are on your equipment.
The garage is insulated, but I suspect not very well. This is the first winter in our house, the house itself was built in 2006.
The garage is attached but only shares one wall with house. Right now, the back door for the garage is frozen shut and there is a thin layer of ice on the inside of the windows (not frost, not condensation. Solid ice). When I was in the roof installing the rig for my rings I checked out the insulation which is actually double the code requirement up there, and the garage door is insulated but obviously has plenty of airway all the way around. As far as the walls, when I was installing a rack for some of gym equipment on the wall I cut out some drywall and saw insulation, so I’m assuming it’s all the way around but I don’t know how thick or good it is.
But yeh, it’s generally only about 10-15 warmer inside the garage than outside.
There is a large double window on one side of the garage (right by the power rack) that I can open to vent, but it just seems like the cold air coming in would nullify any heat I was getting. In the fall I used a regular oscillating ceramic space heater no problem but that doesn’t do shit now.
How about electric infared space heaters? Would they be any better than ceramic? I seriously don’t know shit about this but had feeling that propane and kerosene may not be a great idea.
I am actually kinda curious what they use at the Elite compound, or if the Biotest gym is just a warehouse if they use anything in there.
I’m guessing since those are both a lot bigger than a 2 car garage they could use those torpedo contractors heaters though.
[quote]Jscoope wrote:
Yeh. I know there’s the whole “man up and lift” aspect of it. But if there is a reasonable option for 100-200 to take it from shitty to comfortable then I’m all for it. The only thing I’m worried about with what Lowes suggested is:
Are the propane fumes going to be an issue if all I’m doing is cracking a window (it is a garage, so it’s not like it’s air tight anyway)
Where and how do I store propane after the winter and/or when the heater isn’t in use? (Can I just stick the tank in the basement in the summer? or put it in a shelf in the garage?)[/quote]
Cracking a window doesn’t help gas accumulation because propane at normal temperatures is heavier than air, resulting in it building from the bottom up. So say you have a heater where the flame is 12 inches off of the ground, and a leaky valve (uncommon but it does happen). The room fills about 12 inches across the entire floor space then reaches the ignition source. Then your garage gets blown to bits.
It’s best to store it outside and run a line in. Not a great idea to store explosive gasses indoors when not in use either, but I’ll bet people do it all the time with no consequence.
[quote]Jscoope wrote:
Yeh. I know there’s the whole “man up and lift” aspect of it. But if there is a reasonable option for 100-200 to take it from shitty to comfortable then I’m all for it. The only thing I’m worried about with what Lowes suggested is:
Are the propane fumes going to be an issue if all I’m doing is cracking a window (it is a garage, so it’s not like it’s air tight anyway)
Where and how do I store propane after the winter and/or when the heater isn’t in use? (Can I just stick the tank in the basement in the summer? or put it in a shelf in the garage?)[/quote]
Cracking a window doesn’t help gas accumulation because propane at normal temperatures is heavier than air, resulting in it building from the bottom up. So say you have a heater where the flame is 12 inches off of the ground, and a leaky valve (uncommon but it does happen). The room fills about 12 inches across the entire floor space then reaches the ignition source. Then your garage gets blown to bits.
It’s best to store it outside and run a line in. Not a great idea to store explosive gasses indoors when not in use either, but I’ll bet people do it all the time with no consequence.
[/quote]
You could crack the garage door a few inches.
But electric heat and/or clothing is probably your best option.
My parents actually installed a separate heating and cooling unit for their garage.
Hmmm. I guess I’ll check for some infared heaters then.
Anybody have any idea if it’s possible to convert a 120v outlet to 240v? Or around how much it would cost to get an electrician to install one (I’m not fucking around with wiring on my own). It seems like there are plenty of good options for electric heat sources if I had that capability.
I have a natural gas powered heater — hangs from the roof; you see them in garages (like mechanic garages) and shops all over the Rockies. I think it was $750, plus plumber, plus electrician for starter. All in $1100 or so.
Makes a 3 car garage toasty.
I’ve also used the typical garage kerosene indoor heaters. They are fine to use inside, provided you use “clear” kerosene — the kind that comes in 5 gallon buckets. They are maybe $100 and raise the temperature 20 degrees. Bit smelly and dealing with kerosene is a PITA.
[quote]Jscoope wrote:
Hmmm. I guess I’ll check for some infared heaters then.
[/quote]
Very power hungry and expensive to run. If you go electric, get an oil-filled electric coil heater. (They look like the old fashioned steam heaters, but plug into an electric coil.) They are very efficient and warm a room nicely. They are just slow to start up, so you leave them on.
[quote]Jscoope wrote:
Hmmm. I guess I’ll check for some infared heaters then.
[/quote]
Very power hungry and expensive to run. If you go electric, get an oil-filled electric coil heater. (They look like the old fashioned steam heaters, but plug into an electric coil.) They are very efficient and warm a room nicely. They are just slow to start up, so you leave them on.[/quote]
Thanks, so even I just plan on running it for ~2 hours (start about an hour before I lift) on training days it would still significantly impact electricity costs? (talking about the infared).
And with the oil filled heaters, I’ve seen them around and they seem like what I had when I was growing up, do you have to do it anything with the oil? As in, they come pre-filled and it’s just the oil that is heated by the electric current and the heat radiates out? Is that right?
I mean, honestly I don’t care about the rest of the garage. I take up the back 1/3 when I’m training and as long as that is comfortable then I have no problems.
I don’t know the footage, but it fits 2 cars, has 12ft ceilings and is a bare cement floor except for the back 1/3 which has recycled rubber flooring that, from memory, is 3/8" thick.
[quote]Jscoope wrote:
Thanks, so even I just plan on running it for ~2 hours (start about an hour before I lift) on training days it would still significantly impact electricity costs? (talking about the infared).
And with the oil filled heaters, I’ve seen them around and they seem like what I had when I was growing up, do you have to do it anything with the oil? As in, they come pre-filled and it’s just the oil that is heated by the electric current and the heat radiates out? Is that right?
.[/quote]
The oil is inside the coils already. All you do is plug them in. Power wise, I bet you could heat the room 24/7 for the same power of an infrared 4 hours a week.
Look at the power consumption on the box and see; this not a wild guess, pretty sure it’s close.
If the coil one doesn’t work, add a kerosene heater for really cold days. Cheap and they are handy to heat your house in a SHTF situation.
So I must’ve been tripping cos I just checked went up in the manhole in our roof and it most definitely is NOT insulated up there over the garage. Would it be fair to assume that if the ceiling isn’t insulated then the walls definitely wouldn’t be either, despite being drywalled?
How much difference would insulating the garage walls and ceiling make to the temperature out there?
I have an oil heater along with an infrared one. The two together heat the garage well (they are on different circuts though… one couldn’t handle both). I didn’t know about the difference in energy consumption. That is good to know. I’ll use the oil one whenever possible.
[quote]Jscoope wrote:
So I must’ve been tripping cos I just checked went up in the manhole in our roof and it most definitely is NOT insulated up there over the garage. Would it be fair to assume that if the ceiling isn’t insulated then the walls definitely wouldn’t be either, despite being drywalled?
How much difference would insulating the garage walls and ceiling make to the temperature out there?[/quote]
It will make a huge difference.
A couple of things.
As TTR indicated the oil filled heaters are a good constant heat source but are not meant to heat up a room quickly. They are generally 1500 watts I believe. Prepare to watch your meter spin off the wall heating an uninsulated space with these.
You cannot convert 120v to 240v. In a house circuit 240v is two phase meaning you have two legs running off of your panel. 120v is single phase meaning you are only using using one leg. With that said 240v two phase is not much more efficient than 120v, you would have to move up to three phase for efficiencies to become apparent. I am not an electrician though if someone cares to correct me.
Infrared is nice if you go that route because it will heat the equipment instead of the air.
I still believe the heater I pointed out is your best bet. You may be able to plumb one piped for natural gas or just get a couple of propane tanks to leave outside. If it is in the twenties I go through a twenty pounder over about twentyfour hours.
[quote]Jscoope wrote:
So I must’ve been tripping cos I just checked went up in the manhole in our roof and it most definitely is NOT insulated up there over the garage. Would it be fair to assume that if the ceiling isn’t insulated then the walls definitely wouldn’t be either, despite being drywalled?
How much difference would insulating the garage walls and ceiling make to the temperature out there?[/quote]
probably 10-15 deg at most unless you heat the space. the insulation just maintains the temp if you heat or cool the space. go with the electric oil-filled heater suggested earlier. 110v, use little electricity, work great, and you can leave it on.
how large of an area are you heating? the whole garage or just part of it? if just part hang some plastic for a curtain and just heat the area needed.