It passed the House Ways and Means Committee by a 23-18 vote. With numbers this close I don’t see it passing the senate at all. And they still have yet to answer the question how to pay for it.
As long as the GOP sticks to its guns, and the few democrats who actually have a brain continue to think we should be able to avoid this disaster of a bill.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If you are ever to drop private coverage with a job change or anything, you can no longer get private insurance. [/quote]
That I don’t agree with.
Everyone should have insurance, but if you really want to pay the $500 a month for cobra or whatever, you should be allowed to.
There go my dreams of being a freelance writer, at least in this country.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
If you are ever to drop private coverage with a job change or anything, you can no longer get private insurance.
That I don’t agree with.
Everyone should have insurance, but if you really want to pay the $500 a month for cobra or whatever, you should be allowed to.
There go my dreams of being a freelance writer, at least in this country.[/quote]
And the rest you do agree with?
The implied government guarantee for the public insurance companies money will be enough to crowd private insurers out of the market and create moral hazards like with Fanny May and Freddie Mac.
If this passes not only private companies will disappear over time but the next financial meltdown is inevitable.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=32751
“Democrats also voted down an amendment from Rep. Dean Heller (R-Nv.) that would require all Members of Congress to get insurance through the government-run plan. Apparently Democrat members of Congress do not like the government plan theyâ??re trying to inflict on the rest of us. In a straight party line vote, Democrats voted against exempting themselves from the government-run plan by a vote of 21-18.”
Looks like they don’t even want a part of this disaster.
This will pass. I have no hope that it gets shot down. And I believe that if it DOES by some miracle get shot down in its present form, it will be re-introduced in a slightly modified form very quickly so as to keep momentum moving. This is undeniably bad for our country at this point in time, IMVHO.
It doesn’t make good business sense, or good economic sense. I just makes good rhetorical sense.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
This will pass. I have no hope that it gets shot down. And I believe that if it DOES by some miracle get shot down in its present form, it will be re-introduced in a slightly modified form very quickly so as to keep momentum moving. This is undeniably bad for our country at this point in time, IMVHO.
It doesn’t make good business sense, or good economic sense. I just makes good rhetorical sense.[/quote]
The Democrats are a mess on it - some liberals are threatening to walk if it isn’t sufficiently socialized medicine, and the Blue Dogs are threatening to walk if it is.
In other news, public support continues to tank:
Just 35% of U.S. voters now support the creation of a government health insurance company to compete with private health insurers.
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 50% of voters oppose setting up a government health insurance company as President Obama and congressional Democrats are now proposing in their health care reform plan. Fifteen percent (15%) are undecided.
In mid-June, 41% of American adults thought setting up a government health insurance company to compete with private health insurance companies was a good idea, but the identical number (41%) disagreed.
Fifty-nine percent (59%) of Democrats favor the creation of a government insurance alternative. But Republicans (73%) and voters not affiliated with either party (62%) are opposed.
That’s all true, but I’m still not going to underestimate the ability of party politics to push this through regardless of support. I don’t have faith in our collective ability to hold our lawmakers back any more.
This idea must be shot down.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
That’s all true, but I’m still not going to underestimate the ability of party politics to push this through regardless of support. I don’t have faith in our collective ability to hold our lawmakers back any more.[/quote]
In addition to this I can already hear some of the democrats whinning about not wanting to hand their new President a defeat. I tihnk in the end they will band together and give us perhaps the worst piece of legislation in decades.
I’m not very optimistic on this one.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
That’s all true, but I’m still not going to underestimate the ability of party politics to push this through regardless of support. I don’t have faith in our collective ability to hold our lawmakers back any more.
In addition to this I can already hear some of the democrats whinning about not wanting to hand their new President a defeat. I tihnk in the end they will band together and give us perhaps the worst piece of legislation in decades.
I’m not very optimistic on this one. [/quote]
The dems that like there job are not going to vote for this. The CBO basically torpedoed this bill and now we are just watching it sink
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/07/17/massachusetts-universal-health-care-cuts/
Lets take a look at how Massachusetts is handling their Universal health care.
[quote]John S. wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
That’s all true, but I’m still not going to underestimate the ability of party politics to push this through regardless of support. I don’t have faith in our collective ability to hold our lawmakers back any more.
In addition to this I can already hear some of the democrats whinning about not wanting to hand their new President a defeat. I tihnk in the end they will band together and give us perhaps the worst piece of legislation in decades.
I’m not very optimistic on this one.
The dems that like there job are not going to vote for this. The CBO basically torpedoed this bill and now we are just watching it sink
[/quote]
Not only that, but a big part of the Dems voting block is union members. I would imagine that they would prefer to stick with their already sweet insurance package.
I’ve long given up on trying to predict what Politicians (Federal, State or Local) will do…
But in it’s present form, this Bill should NOT pass, especially with the universally agreed upon effect that it will have in Small Business.
Hopefully there are enough DEMS “heading for the hills” to kill it.
We’ll see.
Mufasa
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I’ve long given up on trying to predict what Politicians (Federal, State or Local) will do…
But in it’s present form, this Bill should NOT pass, especially with the universally agreed upon effect that it will have in Small Business.
Hopefully there are enough DEMS “heading for the hills” to kill it.
We’ll see.
Mufasa[/quote]
I think we are seeing them running for the hills… no they are doing full on sprints. If they value there job they would do best to avoid it.
Is anybody else watching Obama do the bullshit dance on tv right now. What a fucking joke. It’s worse than listening to some shitbag car used car salesman try and sell me some piece of shit klunker. God it pisses me off, what a load of shit. “we need amaericans to be more discriminating consumers”. Really? Thanks for that nugget of wisdom there Opie. So he’s going to achieve this through a government mandate!? WTF!!
Hopefully, for America’s sake, this piece of shit legislation will get flushed.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Is anybody else watching Obama do the bullshit dance on tv right now. What a fucking joke. It’s worse than listening to some shitbag car used car salesman try and sell me some piece of shit klunker. God it pisses me off, what a load of shit. “we need amaericans to be more discriminating consumers”. Really? Thanks for that nugget of wisdom there Opie. So he’s going to achieve this through a government mandate!? WTF!!
Hopefully, for America’s sake, this piece of shit legislation will get flushed.[/quote]
I was going to start a thread about this press conference. Worst one ever for him without a doubt. He was halting, rambling, lacked confidence and even looked nervous. He said nothing new, wasn’t even convincing his adoring sycophants in the press and for the first time really did look off his throne.
What is clear is that the original premise of this thread actually was not true…
(Hell…I should have known better, because it was a civics lesson that I learned in the 5th grade, and many of you guys should have learned from “School House Rock”…)
You put out a proposed Bill, then put it through committees and expose it to public scrutiny.
There is no “Bill that has been passed”. There is a proposal that is now being torn apart, negotiated and compromised in various committees.
Also, I do NOT agree that Obama sounded like a “used car salesman”. He answered questions intelligently, and drove home one important point; the “status quo” IS burying us and will continue to bury us.
Will something akin to the original proposal be passed?
No. The original has already had several amendments, revisions and compromises.
One last thing…NO Health Reform Act will make everyone happy and have all Americans joining hands while we all sing “We Are the World”. There are some damn tough decisions that have to be made.
Mufasa
Pelosi insists she has the votes, top Blue Dogs say otherwise. Durbin has indicated no vote in the Senate on it before August recess.
Obama was evasive in his presser.
Support is cratering. With an August recess, someone - moderate Dems or the GOP - can construct an alternative that takes advantage of the reaction of the public to this abomination.
You know what?
We’d all like to think we are the most intelligent, objective and analytical people around…and that with most things, we are right and everyone else is wrong.
(You don’t have to be on this Forum long to realize that is the case).
The truth is we tend to see most things though out own proverbial “prism”.
Mufasa
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Pelosi insists she has the votes, top Blue Dogs say otherwise. Durbin has indicated no vote in the Senate on it before August recess.
Obama was evasive in his presser.
Support is cratering. With an August recess, someone - moderate Dems or the GOP - can construct an alternative that takes advantage of the reaction of the public to this abomination.[/quote]
Pelosi is full of shit, if they had the votes, it would have been voted on and passed already. She is trying to downplay the reluctance within Congress, even among her own party. The Bluedog Dems along with the Reps hopefully will come through and shoot this down.