[quote]malonetd wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Let me get this straight: you want to turn these corporations completely loose, and trust that these men will produce outcomes beneficial for society? And I’m the idealistic one?
What do you want, an all-powerful, ever-reaching government with its hands in every part of our lives? Is that beneficial for society?[/quote]
Yes, because that’s the only alternative.
/sarcasm
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
malonetd wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Let me get this straight: you want to turn these corporations completely loose, and trust that these men will produce outcomes beneficial for society? And I’m the idealistic one?
What do you want, an all-powerful, ever-reaching government with its hands in every part of our lives? Is that beneficial for society?
Yes, because that’s the only alternative.
/sarcasm
[/quote]
Well now that you got the sarcasm out of the way, how 'bout telling what you think IS beneficial for society.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
IT’S FUCKING WAL-MART MAN!
I’m not saying that it’s like working for a damn Fortune-500 company…
Uhh, Wal-Mart IS a Fortune 500 company. In fact, it’s like a Fortune Five company.
You know what I meant.[/quote]
I know. I’m just busting your balls.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
malonetd wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Let me get this straight: you want to turn these corporations completely loose, and trust that these men will produce outcomes beneficial for society? And I’m the idealistic one?
What do you want, an all-powerful, ever-reaching government with its hands in every part of our lives? Is that beneficial for society?
Yes, because that’s the only alternative.
/sarcasm
Well now that you got the sarcasm out of the way, how 'bout telling what you think IS beneficial for society.
[/quote]
I could name a lot of things which would be beneficial to society. Read the classics. Study history. Get your damn ego under control (not particularly talking to you here, just generally). Care to be more specific?
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
malonetd wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
malonetd wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Let me get this straight: you want to turn these corporations completely loose, and trust that these men will produce outcomes beneficial for society? And I’m the idealistic one?
What do you want, an all-powerful, ever-reaching government with its hands in every part of our lives? Is that beneficial for society?
Yes, because that’s the only alternative.
/sarcasm
Well now that you got the sarcasm out of the way, how 'bout telling what you think IS beneficial for society.
I could name a lot of things which would be beneficial to society. Read the classics. Study history. Get your damn ego under control (not particularly talking to you here, just generally). Care to be more specific?[/quote]
Jesus, is this how you respond to everything?
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
orion wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Don’t like those numbers, eh? Carry on with your tantrum.
And no, I don’t like it when politicians use taxpayers dollars to waste on a murderous military, or to give to rich people, as they presently do. Go on thinking that socialism is your enemy, but remember, you’re living under capitalism now.
lets see, government controlled fiat money and interest rates, heavy regulations on food and drugs, nationalized education, huge part of the medical industry run and regulated by the states, minimum wage laws, government licensing, enormous, basically historically unheard of, taxes, labor related costs enforced by the government distorting the market.
You look at all that and you think:
Capitalism!
Well what is it? It’s definitely not socialism. You complain and complain about government regulation, central banks, etc. If only we could get rid of them! Then the beneficial aspect of capitalism would be unleashed! Well it’s been about 400 years now, when do they kick in? If it’s such a great system, shouldn’t there be degrees of benefit? As in, a regulated capitalist economy will be beneficial, but not as beneficial as a completely unfettered one? Why doesn’t it work if there’s one single regulation on the books?
This reminds me of why I stopped going to church.[/quote]
Greed. Some took advantage of many and the many got screwed over. Is the system perfect? No, but it is better (IMO) than most other societies.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
orion wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Don’t like those numbers, eh? Carry on with your tantrum.
And no, I don’t like it when politicians use taxpayers dollars to waste on a murderous military, or to give to rich people, as they presently do. Go on thinking that socialism is your enemy, but remember, you’re living under capitalism now.
lets see, government controlled fiat money and interest rates, heavy regulations on food and drugs, nationalized education, huge part of the medical industry run and regulated by the states, minimum wage laws, government licensing, enormous, basically historically unheard of, taxes, labor related costs enforced by the government distorting the market.
You look at all that and you think:
Capitalism!
Well what is it? It’s definitely not socialism. You complain and complain about government regulation, central banks, etc. If only we could get rid of them! Then the beneficial aspect of capitalism would be unleashed! Well it’s been about 400 years now, when do they kick in? If it’s such a great system, shouldn’t there be degrees of benefit? As in, a regulated capitalist economy will be beneficial, but not as beneficial as a completely unfettered one? Why doesn’t it work if there’s one single regulation on the books?
This reminds me of why I stopped going to church.
Greed. Some took advantage of many and the many got screwed over. Is the system perfect? No, but it is better (IMO) than most other societies.
[/quote]
On the other hand, Robert Reich has some favorable things to say about Robin Hood.
I just find his explanation of the impact on family businesses to be indecipherable.
John S. — This bill will get passed largely in its present form. I thought the country wouldn’t stand for a lot of fiscally irresponsible things, but I’ve been proven wrong. I’m putting nothing past them any more.
“JUST a 600 billion dollar version” is still completely and utterly irresponsible with the state of our present economy.
Ryan P., your head is so far up your ass you may never see another sunrise until the light at the end of the tunnel calls you to your death.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
…Shit…
Jesus, is this how you respond to everything?[/quote]
Yes. I’m pretty civil most of the time and I rarely have problems with posters, but our friend Ryan here is maybe the only poster I find more galling than Lixy, whose only saving grace is that of occasionally coming up with very insightful posts to mix in with the everyday shit. Ryan epitomizes the pseudo-intellectual, rhetorically-rich-but-substantially-poor bullshit that gets passed off as profound and educated these days.
[quote]Therizza wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
I don’t like it when politicians use taxpayers dollars to waste on a murderous military
You ungrateful bastard[/quote]
Surely the money spent on flags and uniforms was well spent?
And the parades, ah, the parades.
They even have shiny metal thingies that you get for being a successful hired killer.
Shiny metal thingies!
And ribbons!
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
orion wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Don’t like those numbers, eh? Carry on with your tantrum.
And no, I don’t like it when politicians use taxpayers dollars to waste on a murderous military, or to give to rich people, as they presently do. Go on thinking that socialism is your enemy, but remember, you’re living under capitalism now.
lets see, government controlled fiat money and interest rates, heavy regulations on food and drugs, nationalized education, huge part of the medical industry run and regulated by the states, minimum wage laws, government licensing, enormous, basically historically unheard of, taxes, labor related costs enforced by the government distorting the market.
You look at all that and you think:
Capitalism!
Well what is it? It’s definitely not socialism. You complain and complain about government regulation, central banks, etc. If only we could get rid of them! Then the beneficial aspect of capitalism would be unleashed! Well it’s been about 400 years now, when do they kick in? If it’s such a great system, shouldn’t there be degrees of benefit? As in, a regulated capitalist economy will be beneficial, but not as beneficial as a completely unfettered one? Why doesn’t it work if there’s one single regulation on the books?
This reminds me of why I stopped going to church.[/quote]
Excuse me, do you have any idea how people lived 400 years ago?
When will they kick in?
Look around you!
400 years ago?
Ah yes, splendid times!
I guess it’d be about time to move the clan out of Magdeburg 
…so I guess that’s not really an argument?
Like it or not:
Through technological and social progress, the state or government entity can now be very powerful.
We both won’t live long enough to see another massive transformation of society.
You know the flaws (you preach them all the time and rightfully so), yet mayhap you can draw a little satisfacttion from the main advantage our modern societies do provide?
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
orion wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Don’t like those numbers, eh? Carry on with your tantrum.
And no, I don’t like it when politicians use taxpayers dollars to waste on a murderous military, or to give to rich people, as they presently do. Go on thinking that socialism is your enemy, but remember, you’re living under capitalism now.
lets see, government controlled fiat money and interest rates, heavy regulations on food and drugs, nationalized education, huge part of the medical industry run and regulated by the states, minimum wage laws, government licensing, enormous, basically historically unheard of, taxes, labor related costs enforced by the government distorting the market.
You look at all that and you think:
Capitalism!
Well what is it? It’s definitely not socialism. You complain and complain about government regulation, central banks, etc. If only we could get rid of them! Then the beneficial aspect of capitalism would be unleashed! Well it’s been about 400 years now, when do they kick in? If it’s such a great system, shouldn’t there be degrees of benefit? As in, a regulated capitalist economy will be beneficial, but not as beneficial as a completely unfettered one? Why doesn’t it work if there’s one single regulation on the books?
This reminds me of why I stopped going to church.
Greed. Some took advantage of many and the many got screwed over. Is the system perfect? No, but it is better (IMO) than most other societies.
[/quote]
A mass market caters to the many-
Who so you think profits from cheap food, clothes, electricity and cars if not the “many”?
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
400 years ago?
Ah yes, splendid times!
I guess it’d be about time to move the clan out of Magdeburg
…so I guess that’s not really an argument?
Like it or not:
Through technological and social progress, the state or government entity can now be very powerful.
We both won’t live long enough to see another massive transformation of society.
You know the flaws (you preach them all the time and rightfully so), yet mayhap you can draw a little satisfacttion from the main advantage our modern societies do provide?
[/quote]
Abundant wealth and unheard of upward social mobility?
Yay capitalism?
The claim that capitalism has not made the lives of millions people better is so blatantly absurd if you compare our lives to that of 16/17 century peasants.
[quote]John S. wrote:
There is no way that this health bill is making it all the way at its current price tag.[/quote]
National Socialism is priceless.
[quote]orion wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Don’t like those numbers, eh? Carry on with your tantrum.
And no, I don’t like it when politicians use taxpayers dollars to waste on a murderous military, or to give to rich people, as they presently do. Go on thinking that socialism is your enemy, but remember, you’re living under capitalism now.
lets see, government controlled fiat money and interest rates, heavy regulations on food and drugs, nationalized education, huge part of the medical industry run and regulated by the states, minimum wage laws, government licensing, enormous, basically historically unheard of, taxes, labor related costs enforced by the government distorting the market.
You look at all that and you think:
Capitalism!
[/quote]
I read somewhere that the average tax rate under the kings of France was 3%. And they got beheaded for that?
At the ending of Orwell’s Animal Farm, the humans applaud the pigs for getting more work out of their slaves than the humans, all by having parades and speeches about how wonderful the animals have it now. Interesting.
[quote]orion wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
400 years ago?
Ah yes, splendid times!
I guess it’d be about time to move the clan out of Magdeburg
…so I guess that’s not really an argument?
Like it or not:
Through technological and social progress, the state or government entity can now be very powerful.
We both won’t live long enough to see another massive transformation of society.
You know the flaws (you preach them all the time and rightfully so), yet mayhap you can draw a little satisfacttion from the main advantage our modern societies do provide?
Abundant wealth and unheard of upward social mobility?
Yay capitalism?
The claim that capitalism has not made the lives of millions people better is so blatantly absurd if you compare our lives to that of 16/17 century peasants.
[/quote]
Capitalism is the only ‘ism’ that did anyone any good. But then the masses have to milk it dry.
If that is the sole argument, I guess it’d be time to join the chinese communist party.
Cause never, ever, has a government improved the lives of so many people like they did.
Also, it is absurd that you cherry pick the rise of the middle class yet ignore the cruelty of 16th century warfare which was waged mainly by power-hungry aristocrats and clergy.
Or do you mean to reinstitute their iron-fisted reign?
[quote]orion wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
400 years ago?
Ah yes, splendid times!
I guess it’d be about time to move the clan out of Magdeburg
…so I guess that’s not really an argument?
Like it or not:
Through technological and social progress, the state or government entity can now be very powerful.
We both won’t live long enough to see another massive transformation of society.
You know the flaws (you preach them all the time and rightfully so), yet mayhap you can draw a little satisfacttion from the main advantage our modern societies do provide?
Abundant wealth and unheard of upward social mobility?
Yay capitalism?
The claim that capitalism has not made the lives of millions people better is so blatantly absurd if you compare our lives to that of 16/17 century peasants.
[/quote]
My god yes this is true.
…but wait, I thought “we” weren’t capitalists…hmmm…