[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Wilba wrote:
Please give us your address and phone number so we can have them contact you when they need something.[/quote]
Unfortunately for you, I already do help them…and so do you! Unless, of course, you don’t pay taxes. In which case you are either in Venezuela or federal prison.[/quote]
I am all too aware but if I can send them directly to you then maybe just maybe I can save a buck or two.
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]Bambi wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I understand what you’re saying but I also understand human nature quite well. And I think that your system can be played just as easily as the US when it comes to those who want to live off the government dole. If someone is rewarded enough for doing nothing that’s exactly what they’ll keep on doing.
I agree with this. I just think we should do our utmost to stop people from playing the system, rather than simply doing away with it.
For example: if you are on food stamps, your license is electronically marked and you are entirely prohibited from buying cigarettes and alcohol. It’s not going to solve the problem, but little things like that can add up.[/quote]
Well, I actually think that’s a step in the right direction. But how about this; instead of simply handing people on welfare free money how about they have to stop in at the local office and sweep floors, rake, shovel snow, wash dishes, or maybe just sit in a room and make a list of what skills they have to offer the work place?
[/quote]
I would fully support such a measure.[/quote]
Now you’re thinking clearly!
Unfortunately we DO NOT have a Chief Executive in the oval office who agrees with us. And I do not think that we will ever see the sort of meaningful change that we both agree is needed as long as democrats hold power. Keep in mind a good portion of their constituency are the very people who feel entitled to government funds for doing nothing.
And that is one reason why I am a republican and vote conservative.[/quote]
UK government is trying to make the long-term unemployded do manual labour actually
Interesting. But we have a bigger welfare state than you do I believe (But we spend less on healthcare on you despite seeing healthcare as a right - it’s a strange world!)
[/quote]
Yes you spend less on health care & you get what you pay for. How long is the wait to get an MRI? Hip replacement?[/quote]
Girlfriend needed an MRI, got one within 3 weeks last year. Mother had symptoms of breast cancer, was checked within 2 weeks (thankfully negative). Maybe I’m lucky that the regional healthcare is very good where I live but I have never had a problem with the NHS ever. It’s by no means top of the range (private healthcare in the UK apparently is). Next question?
Zeb, I have no doubt the US system is a good system but I have heard that worldwide France and Italy run them close. France has a mixture of public/private which is quite an interesting system actually
[quote]Bambi wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]Bambi wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I understand what you’re saying but I also understand human nature quite well. And I think that your system can be played just as easily as the US when it comes to those who want to live off the government dole. If someone is rewarded enough for doing nothing that’s exactly what they’ll keep on doing.
I agree with this. I just think we should do our utmost to stop people from playing the system, rather than simply doing away with it.
For example: if you are on food stamps, your license is electronically marked and you are entirely prohibited from buying cigarettes and alcohol. It’s not going to solve the problem, but little things like that can add up.[/quote]
Well, I actually think that’s a step in the right direction. But how about this; instead of simply handing people on welfare free money how about they have to stop in at the local office and sweep floors, rake, shovel snow, wash dishes, or maybe just sit in a room and make a list of what skills they have to offer the work place?
[/quote]
I would fully support such a measure.[/quote]
Now you’re thinking clearly!
Unfortunately we DO NOT have a Chief Executive in the oval office who agrees with us. And I do not think that we will ever see the sort of meaningful change that we both agree is needed as long as democrats hold power. Keep in mind a good portion of their constituency are the very people who feel entitled to government funds for doing nothing.
And that is one reason why I am a republican and vote conservative.[/quote]
UK government is trying to make the long-term unemployded do manual labour actually
Interesting. But we have a bigger welfare state than you do I believe (But we spend less on healthcare on you despite seeing healthcare as a right - it’s a strange world!)
[/quote]
Yes you spend less on health care & you get what you pay for. How long is the wait to get an MRI? Hip replacement?[/quote]
Girlfriend needed an MRI, got one within 3 weeks last year. Mother had symptoms of breast cancer, was checked within 2 weeks (thankfully negative). Maybe I’m lucky that the regional healthcare is very good where I live but I have never had a problem with the NHS ever. It’s by no means top of the range (private healthcare in the UK apparently is). Next question?
Zeb, I have no doubt the US system is a good system but I have heard that worldwide France and Italy run them close. France has a mixture of public/private which is quite an interesting system actually
[/quote]
A good friend injured his knee skiing on Sunday, had an MRI on Monday and was in surgery Tuesday. You get what you pay for.
[quote]Bambi wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]Bambi wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I understand what you’re saying but I also understand human nature quite well. And I think that your system can be played just as easily as the US when it comes to those who want to live off the government dole. If someone is rewarded enough for doing nothing that’s exactly what they’ll keep on doing.
I agree with this. I just think we should do our utmost to stop people from playing the system, rather than simply doing away with it.
For example: if you are on food stamps, your license is electronically marked and you are entirely prohibited from buying cigarettes and alcohol. It’s not going to solve the problem, but little things like that can add up.[/quote]
Well, I actually think that’s a step in the right direction. But how about this; instead of simply handing people on welfare free money how about they have to stop in at the local office and sweep floors, rake, shovel snow, wash dishes, or maybe just sit in a room and make a list of what skills they have to offer the work place?
[/quote]
I would fully support such a measure.[/quote]
Now you’re thinking clearly!
Unfortunately we DO NOT have a Chief Executive in the oval office who agrees with us. And I do not think that we will ever see the sort of meaningful change that we both agree is needed as long as democrats hold power. Keep in mind a good portion of their constituency are the very people who feel entitled to government funds for doing nothing.
And that is one reason why I am a republican and vote conservative.[/quote]
UK government is trying to make the long-term unemployded do manual labour actually
Interesting. But we have a bigger welfare state than you do I believe (But we spend less on healthcare on you despite seeing healthcare as a right - it’s a strange world!)
[/quote]
Yes you spend less on health care & you get what you pay for. How long is the wait to get an MRI? Hip replacement?[/quote]
Girlfriend needed an MRI, got one within 3 weeks last year. Mother had symptoms of breast cancer, was checked within 2 weeks (thankfully negative). Maybe I’m lucky that the regional healthcare is very good where I live but I have never had a problem with the NHS ever. It’s by no means top of the range (private healthcare in the UK apparently is). Next question?
Zeb, I have no doubt the US system is a good system but I have heard that worldwide France and Italy run them close. France has a mixture of public/private which is quite an interesting system actually
[/quote]
How about your rate of taxation, have you ever had a problem with that?
Fair enough, though if she’d hurt her head skiing she’d have probably been seen sooner (it was for a long-term migraine issue - slightly less serious). I’m not arguing that the NHS is superior to private healthcare - how could it be we only spend 9% of our budget on healthcare compared to your 18% - but it provides a basic level of entry care. Many people have private healthcare if they want thinks more speedily but its not as if the system here is some socialist hellhole
[quote]Wilba wrote:
[quote]Bambi wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]Bambi wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I understand what you’re saying but I also understand human nature quite well. And I think that your system can be played just as easily as the US when it comes to those who want to live off the government dole. If someone is rewarded enough for doing nothing that’s exactly what they’ll keep on doing.
I agree with this. I just think we should do our utmost to stop people from playing the system, rather than simply doing away with it.
For example: if you are on food stamps, your license is electronically marked and you are entirely prohibited from buying cigarettes and alcohol. It’s not going to solve the problem, but little things like that can add up.[/quote]
Well, I actually think that’s a step in the right direction. But how about this; instead of simply handing people on welfare free money how about they have to stop in at the local office and sweep floors, rake, shovel snow, wash dishes, or maybe just sit in a room and make a list of what skills they have to offer the work place?
[/quote]
I would fully support such a measure.[/quote]
Now you’re thinking clearly!
Unfortunately we DO NOT have a Chief Executive in the oval office who agrees with us. And I do not think that we will ever see the sort of meaningful change that we both agree is needed as long as democrats hold power. Keep in mind a good portion of their constituency are the very people who feel entitled to government funds for doing nothing.
And that is one reason why I am a republican and vote conservative.[/quote]
UK government is trying to make the long-term unemployded do manual labour actually
Interesting. But we have a bigger welfare state than you do I believe (But we spend less on healthcare on you despite seeing healthcare as a right - it’s a strange world!)
[/quote]
Yes you spend less on health care & you get what you pay for. How long is the wait to get an MRI? Hip replacement?[/quote]
Girlfriend needed an MRI, got one within 3 weeks last year. Mother had symptoms of breast cancer, was checked within 2 weeks (thankfully negative). Maybe I’m lucky that the regional healthcare is very good where I live but I have never had a problem with the NHS ever. It’s by no means top of the range (private healthcare in the UK apparently is). Next question?
Zeb, I have no doubt the US system is a good system but I have heard that worldwide France and Italy run them close. France has a mixture of public/private which is quite an interesting system actually
[/quote]
How about your rate of taxation, have you ever had a problem with that? [/quote]
I have issue with the fact that if you are on minimum wage the entry level of tax is 20%! The 10% tax rate was abolished 3 years ago and it means that for some you earn more money on benefit than on minimum wage. This should NEVER be the case and encourages welfare dependency. I would much rather people on the minimum wage paid something like 5%, especially with inflation pretty high in the country. The top tax rate is 50%, which I believe to be too high (Laffer curve etc) but it’s being lowered to 40-45% in the next 2 years. The problem we have is widening social equality. 1% of the country pays a huge amount of taxes, and the country as a whole is hugely reliant on the financial sector for income, meaning a great wealth disparity (i.e. big north/south split). I don’t think just ploughing money into benefits is a good way to address that, I think we need to encourage entrepreneurship. It’s ridiculous that we export the amount of energy we do and don’t build any oil rigs, submersibles etc - they’re all from Norway, USA or France. This is really due to the centralised governmental system and somthing a devolved Scotland is only beginning to address
[quote]Bambi wrote:
Fair enough, though if she’d hurt her head skiing she’d have probably been seen sooner (it was for a long-term migraine issue - slightly less serious). I’m not arguing that the NHS is superior to private healthcare - how could it be we only spend 9% of our budget on healthcare compared to your 18% - but it provides a basic level of entry care. Many people have private healthcare if they want thinks more speedily but its not as if the system here is some socialist hellhole
[/quote]
I guess it depends on who you ask…
I would say though that is very much the exception. Michael Moore found a guy who chopped off his finger or something because insurance cost was too high (or something like that) does that mean that the US healhcare system is broke? Obvious a finger and death are quite different - but I will just repeat - I have never had a problem with the NHS and when friends and family have needed it it has been exemplary - that doesn’t mean in some places it isn’t good but that is my experiences. We can find bad news on either side
I think it was the WTO that reported recently that the US is ranked #1 in the world in COST of healthcare, but #40 in QUALITY of healthcare.
Also, having a fire put out is also not a right
The police solving the murder of your wife is not a right
Eating safe food is not a right
Flying in a plane that has been inspected is not a right
Let’s privitize all these services and make them available to only those who can afford them.
Damn freeloaders
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
having a fire put out is also not a right
The police solving the murder of your wife is not a right
[/quote]
Oh man “professor” you don’t even understand the difference between emergency services and insurance? LOL…We do take care of everyone who has a medical emergency. They do that in something called an “Emergency Room”.
You’re soooo very smart but you don’t understand this for some reason.
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
I think it was the WTO that reported recently that the US is ranked #1 in the world in COST of healthcare, but #40 in QUALITY of healthcare.
Also, having a fire put out is also not a right
The police solving the murder of your wife is not a right
Eating safe food is not a right
Flying in a plane that has been inspected is not a right
Let’s privitize all these services and make them available to only those who can afford them.
Damn freeloaders [/quote]
I believe it was the WHO, and they include such socialistic ideas as “responsiveness distribution and financial fairness” so take that with a grain of salt.
You’re right none of what you mentined is a right:
having a fire put out is also not a right - which is why it is handled locally by locals who agree to pay for it for all locals.
The police solving the murder of your wife is not a right - which is why it is handled locally by locals who agree to pay for it for all locals.
Eating safe food is not a right - which could be handled by the free market. A company that kills it’s customers won’t be in business very long.
Flying in a plane that has been inspected is not a right - which could be handled by the free market. A company that kills it’s customers won’t be in business very long.
Was there a point you were trying to make?
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]Bambi wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]Bambi wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I understand what you’re saying but I also understand human nature quite well. And I think that your system can be played just as easily as the US when it comes to those who want to live off the government dole. If someone is rewarded enough for doing nothing that’s exactly what they’ll keep on doing.
I agree with this. I just think we should do our utmost to stop people from playing the system, rather than simply doing away with it.
For example: if you are on food stamps, your license is electronically marked and you are entirely prohibited from buying cigarettes and alcohol. It’s not going to solve the problem, but little things like that can add up.[/quote]
Well, I actually think that’s a step in the right direction. But how about this; instead of simply handing people on welfare free money how about they have to stop in at the local office and sweep floors, rake, shovel snow, wash dishes, or maybe just sit in a room and make a list of what skills they have to offer the work place?
[/quote]
I would fully support such a measure.[/quote]
Now you’re thinking clearly!
Unfortunately we DO NOT have a Chief Executive in the oval office who agrees with us. And I do not think that we will ever see the sort of meaningful change that we both agree is needed as long as democrats hold power. Keep in mind a good portion of their constituency are the very people who feel entitled to government funds for doing nothing.
And that is one reason why I am a republican and vote conservative.[/quote]
UK government is trying to make the long-term unemployded do manual labour actually
Interesting. But we have a bigger welfare state than you do I believe (But we spend less on healthcare on you despite seeing healthcare as a right - it’s a strange world!)
[/quote]
Yes you spend less on health care & you get what you pay for. How long is the wait to get an MRI? Hip replacement?[/quote]
Girlfriend needed an MRI, got one within 3 weeks last year. Mother had symptoms of breast cancer, was checked within 2 weeks (thankfully negative). Maybe I’m lucky that the regional healthcare is very good where I live but I have never had a problem with the NHS ever. It’s by no means top of the range (private healthcare in the UK apparently is). Next question?
Zeb, I have no doubt the US system is a good system but I have heard that worldwide France and Italy run them close. France has a mixture of public/private which is quite an interesting system actually
[/quote]
A good friend injured his knee skiing on Sunday, had an MRI on Monday and was in surgery Tuesday. You get what you pay for.[/quote]
“You get what you pay for” is actually not true for the most part. More care does not equal better care - in fact, it often means worse care because of increased fragmentation and more side effects and adverse outcomes.
For your friend, being in America may have helped him. Or, he might have gotten the same care in another developed country.
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
I think it was the WTO that reported recently that the US is ranked #1 in the world in COST of healthcare, but #40 in QUALITY of healthcare.
Also, having a fire put out is also not a right
The police solving the murder of your wife is not a right
Eating safe food is not a right
Flying in a plane that has been inspected is not a right
Let’s privitize all these services and make them available to only those who can afford them.
Damn freeloaders [/quote]
I believe it was the WHO, and they include such socialistic ideas as “responsiveness distribution and financial fairness” so take that with a grain of salt.
You’re right none of what you mentined is a right:
having a fire put out is also not a right - which is why it is handled locally by locals who agree to pay for it for all locals.
The police solving the murder of your wife is not a right - which is why it is handled locally by locals who agree to pay for it for all locals.
Eating safe food is not a right - which could be handled by the free market. A company that kills it’s customers won’t be in business very long.
Flying in a plane that has been inspected is not a right - which could be handled by the free market. A company that kills it’s customers won’t be in business very long.
Was there a point you were trying to make?
[/quote]
Not to mention, insurance companies tend to be rather rude when it comes to insuring billions of equipment when it comes to regular maintenance.
Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin Makes History by Signing Into Law Single-Payer Health Care
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin Makes History by Signing Into Law Single-Payer Health Care
Yes, the communist state of Vermont where the average household income for the typical family of four is about where most states were around 1994. This state is a bigger joke than Rosie O’Donnell’s last “wedding”.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin Makes History by Signing Into Law Single-Payer Health Care
And it’ll end up as bankrupt as Massachusetts.
Like a Police Officer, you have no right for his protection…ya!
HOw bout this, we have a civil service of people who enter medicine and must serve in the public system for a tenure, they will get paid the wage provided but get all their schooling free prior to that.
They will take an oath like Soldiers and Police Officers to serve the public.
THen when they complete their tenure, of 6 years or whatever, they can remain in that system, with benefits such as malpractice insurance taken care of, or they can go work privately.
People who pay for medical degrees out of pocket can work privately and not be bound in the state medical system.
Done.
Problem solved.
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
Like a Police Officer, you have no right for his protection…ya![/quote]
News flash! Police’s duty is not to protect anyone.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/04-278.ZS.html
[quote]HOw bout this, we have a civil service of people who enter medicine and must serve in the public system for a tenure, they will get paid the wage provided but get all their schooling free prior to that.
They will take an oath like Soldiers and Police Officers to serve the public.
THen when they complete their tenure, of 6 years or whatever, they can remain in that system, with benefits such as malpractice insurance taken care of, or they can go work privately.
People who pay for medical degrees out of pocket can work privately and not be bound in the state medical system.
Done.
Problem solved.[/quote]
How about Rohnyn move to Norway where he can have the socialism he craves. Problem solved
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
Like a Police Officer, you have no right for his protection…ya![/quote]
News flash! Police’s duty is not to protect anyone.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/04-278.ZS.html
[quote]HOw bout this, we have a civil service of people who enter medicine and must serve in the public system for a tenure, they will get paid the wage provided but get all their schooling free prior to that.
They will take an oath like Soldiers and Police Officers to serve the public.
THen when they complete their tenure, of 6 years or whatever, they can remain in that system, with benefits such as malpractice insurance taken care of, or they can go work privately.
People who pay for medical degrees out of pocket can work privately and not be bound in the state medical system.
Done.
Problem solved.[/quote]
How about Rohnyn move to Norway where he can have the socialism he craves. Problem solved
[/quote]
If the POlice’s duty is not to protect anyone then we have more problems than we imagined.
Reddog, in a democratic society, if the people vote to set up a civil service for medicine without enforcing the that on Doctors to be a part of it…how is that a bad thing?
People who want to work privately can do that, and people who want to work in the civil service can do that.
I don’t see how that doesn’t solve the issue. If Private care is better, then by all means if you can afford it do it, but if you want to work in the public system cuz you get school for free, then do that.
Whats the problem?
I won’t comment on the U.S health care system, but I’ve heard quite a few horror stories from the U.S. about how horrible health care is in Western Europe.
I relative of mine is a cancer survivor. Was diagnosed early, got the best treatment available, and her prognosis is excellent today (thank God). It was quite an ordeal, and she’s suffered financially because of reduced income (still only able to work 30%), but not because of medical expenses.
About 15 or so years ago I literally got my hand caught between the jaws of a Rhodesian/Rottweiler mix and a German Shepherd that were trying to kill each other. My hand had a hole the size of a golf ball (I could see through it), knuckles and bones were shattered all over, it was a bloody mess.
I was taken to the ER, seen by someone after about 10 mins. I was immediately prepped, a surgeon was called, who arrived about 30 mins later.
The whole thing cost me about NOK 1,200 (about 220 USD per today’s currency). Rehab was free. After rehab I was able to lift again, play the guitar, hand was back to about 95% functionality (apparently the best I could ever hope for, considering the damage, it will never be 100% again).
Just two personal anecdotes from Norway. Our system is far from perfect (is it anywhere?), doesn’t always work the way it’s supposed to, mistakes are made… but it’s not some Soviet style, Kafka-esque nightmare.
Some relatives of mine have quite a lot of experience with the French health care system, and have nothing but positive things to say. In fact it sounds much better organized than the Norwegian one…
Just my 2 cents…