When is it an appropriate time to use one of the HDL methods?
I just did my first HDL set today in a few months and that was pretty rough. Did it just out of curiosity since it had been awhile. When I was new to all this, I didn’t quite realize how intense it actually was.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
When is it an appropriate time to use one of the HDL methods?
[/quote]
Uhhh, at 5PM? Kind of a vague question. Think of it this way, what ARE HDL sets, speaking from a high level? Higher volume with ~80% single rep max performed in a condensed time frame. What ends would this kind of training serve? Max strength? Hypertrophy? What? When you figure that out, then you will understand what point of your training would benefit most from HDL sets.
[quote]mrjasonbbc wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
When is it an appropriate time to use one of the HDL methods?
[/quote]
Uhhh, at 5PM? Kind of a vague question. Think of it this way, what ARE HDL sets, speaking from a high level? Higher volume with ~80% single rep max performed in a condensed time frame. What ends would this kind of training serve? Max strength? Hypertrophy? What? When you figure that out, then you will understand what point of your training would benefit most from HDL sets.
[/quote]
to put it simply, HDL work should be done when you are bulking/focusing on building muscle.
you need to be eating well if you do them because they are very physically demanding as well as mentally.
they shouldnt be used for too long because you can burn out quite quickly; if you started to stall, drop the HDL and focus on strength for a bit.
I asked the question just before I went on vacation.
There are really two things that drive that question:
Multiple mentions of not using HDL for long periods because of their intensity, as well as the “they’re used as a tool to solve a particular problem”. There hasn’t really been any detail about the latter… namely when it’s the right solution to solve a particular problem and when it’s not.
I’ve seen more hypertrophy gains personally from higher volume WITH higher intensity (the 1,2,3RM ramps each followed with their respective clusters), than I did when I was using less volume but using HDL sets.
So based on that, does that mean that HDL isn’t really right for me? Or does it mean that I hadn’t adapted enough to the movements yet for HDL to be effective yet? Or something else entirely?
I understand HDL as a tool for hypertrophy, but I don’t understand what’s going on well enough to know when and if it will ever be the right tool for me.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
I asked the question just before I went on vacation.
There are really two things that drive that question:
Multiple mentions of not using HDL for long periods because of their intensity, as well as the “they’re used as a tool to solve a particular problem”. There hasn’t really been any detail about the latter… namely when it’s the right solution to solve a particular problem and when it’s not.
I’ve seen more hypertrophy gains personally from higher volume WITH higher intensity (the 1,2,3RM ramps each followed with their respective clusters), than I did when I was using less volume but using HDL sets.
So based on that, does that mean that HDL isn’t really right for me? Or does it mean that I hadn’t adapted enough to the movements yet for HDL to be effective yet? Or something else entirely?
I understand HDL as a tool for hypertrophy, but I don’t understand what’s going on well enough to know when and if it will ever be the right tool for me.[/quote]
HDL is very demanding on the CNS and muscles which makes it hard to recover from. Which is why I said that you shouldn’t use it all the time or for long periods.
But I think that the biggest issue comes with doing too much of it. 3 sets or HDL might actually be too much for maximum gains if you are also doing heavy work. And since it’s a very powerful method, 1 set might very well be enough to get more than 90% of the gains from that method.
I do believe that adding one set of HDL work at the end of an heavy lifting workout can help a lot with overall muscle mass gains without impairing recovery too much and that strategy can be used for a fairly long period of time.
Doing more than that should be done for 2-3 weeks at a time when your results from heavy work has stalled. When that happens reduce heavy lifting volume by 40-50% and add 3 sets of HDL work.
Also, HDL work, works to a significant extent because it creates a massive influx of blood into the muscles. But for it to be effective you need the blood to be filled with nutrients. So without the use of proper peri-workout nutrition (PLAZMA pre and during workout) HDL loses a lot of it’s effectiveness (like other methods based on a big pump).
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
I asked the question just before I went on vacation.
There are really two things that drive that question:
Multiple mentions of not using HDL for long periods because of their intensity, as well as the “they’re used as a tool to solve a particular problem”. There hasn’t really been any detail about the latter… namely when it’s the right solution to solve a particular problem and when it’s not.
I’ve seen more hypertrophy gains personally from higher volume WITH higher intensity (the 1,2,3RM ramps each followed with their respective clusters), than I did when I was using less volume but using HDL sets.
So based on that, does that mean that HDL isn’t really right for me? Or does it mean that I hadn’t adapted enough to the movements yet for HDL to be effective yet? Or something else entirely?
I understand HDL as a tool for hypertrophy, but I don’t understand what’s going on well enough to know when and if it will ever be the right tool for me.[/quote]
HDL is very demanding on the CNS and muscles which makes it hard to recover from. Which is why I said that you shouldn’t use it all the time or for long periods.
But I think that the biggest issue comes with doing too much of it. 3 sets or HDL might actually be too much for maximum gains if you are also doing heavy work. And since it’s a very powerful method, 1 set might very well be enough to get more than 90% of the gains from that method.
I do believe that adding one set of HDL work at the end of an heavy lifting workout can help a lot with overall muscle mass gains without impairing recovery too much and that strategy can be used for a fairly long period of time.
Doing more than that should be done for 2-3 weeks at a time when your results from heavy work has stalled. When that happens reduce heavy lifting volume by 40-50% and add 3 sets of HDL work.
Also, HDL work, works to a significant extent because it creates a massive influx of blood into the muscles. But for it to be effective you need the blood to be filled with nutrients. So without the use of proper peri-workout nutrition (PLAZMA pre and during workout) HDL loses a lot of it’s effectiveness (like other methods based on a big pump).[/quote]
Does the same go for the Density portion after Waves/Ladders?
[quote]jtbrown0511 wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
I asked the question just before I went on vacation.
There are really two things that drive that question:
Multiple mentions of not using HDL for long periods because of their intensity, as well as the “they’re used as a tool to solve a particular problem”. There hasn’t really been any detail about the latter… namely when it’s the right solution to solve a particular problem and when it’s not.
I’ve seen more hypertrophy gains personally from higher volume WITH higher intensity (the 1,2,3RM ramps each followed with their respective clusters), than I did when I was using less volume but using HDL sets.
So based on that, does that mean that HDL isn’t really right for me? Or does it mean that I hadn’t adapted enough to the movements yet for HDL to be effective yet? Or something else entirely?
I understand HDL as a tool for hypertrophy, but I don’t understand what’s going on well enough to know when and if it will ever be the right tool for me.[/quote]
HDL is very demanding on the CNS and muscles which makes it hard to recover from. Which is why I said that you shouldn’t use it all the time or for long periods.
But I think that the biggest issue comes with doing too much of it. 3 sets or HDL might actually be too much for maximum gains if you are also doing heavy work. And since it’s a very powerful method, 1 set might very well be enough to get more than 90% of the gains from that method.
I do believe that adding one set of HDL work at the end of an heavy lifting workout can help a lot with overall muscle mass gains without impairing recovery too much and that strategy can be used for a fairly long period of time.
Doing more than that should be done for 2-3 weeks at a time when your results from heavy work has stalled. When that happens reduce heavy lifting volume by 40-50% and add 3 sets of HDL work.
Also, HDL work, works to a significant extent because it creates a massive influx of blood into the muscles. But for it to be effective you need the blood to be filled with nutrients. So without the use of proper peri-workout nutrition (PLAZMA pre and during workout) HDL loses a lot of it’s effectiveness (like other methods based on a big pump).[/quote]
Does the same go for the Density portion after Waves/Ladders?[/quote]
No, not the same thing at all… HDL basically takes you to failure and beyond, sometimes a few times in a set. That is what’s neurologically and physically draining.
So would you say that the old recommendation of 4 week cycles of HDL alternated with 4 weeks without is a bit too optimistic, from the recovery standpoint?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]jtbrown0511 wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
I asked the question just before I went on vacation.
There are really two things that drive that question:
Multiple mentions of not using HDL for long periods because of their intensity, as well as the “they’re used as a tool to solve a particular problem”. There hasn’t really been any detail about the latter… namely when it’s the right solution to solve a particular problem and when it’s not.
I’ve seen more hypertrophy gains personally from higher volume WITH higher intensity (the 1,2,3RM ramps each followed with their respective clusters), than I did when I was using less volume but using HDL sets.
So based on that, does that mean that HDL isn’t really right for me? Or does it mean that I hadn’t adapted enough to the movements yet for HDL to be effective yet? Or something else entirely?
I understand HDL as a tool for hypertrophy, but I don’t understand what’s going on well enough to know when and if it will ever be the right tool for me.[/quote]
HDL is very demanding on the CNS and muscles which makes it hard to recover from. Which is why I said that you shouldn’t use it all the time or for long periods.
But I think that the biggest issue comes with doing too much of it. 3 sets or HDL might actually be too much for maximum gains if you are also doing heavy work. And since it’s a very powerful method, 1 set might very well be enough to get more than 90% of the gains from that method.
I do believe that adding one set of HDL work at the end of an heavy lifting workout can help a lot with overall muscle mass gains without impairing recovery too much and that strategy can be used for a fairly long period of time.
Doing more than that should be done for 2-3 weeks at a time when your results from heavy work has stalled. When that happens reduce heavy lifting volume by 40-50% and add 3 sets of HDL work.
Also, HDL work, works to a significant extent because it creates a massive influx of blood into the muscles. But for it to be effective you need the blood to be filled with nutrients. So without the use of proper peri-workout nutrition (PLAZMA pre and during workout) HDL loses a lot of it’s effectiveness (like other methods based on a big pump).[/quote]
Does the same go for the Density portion after Waves/Ladders?[/quote]
No, not the same thing at all… HDL basically takes you to failure and beyond, sometimes a few times in a set. That is what’s neurologically and physically draining.[/quote]
Okay good, I did not want to stop doing the density portion after the Waves/Ladders. Thanks for the quick response.
Thanks for the explanation. That clarifies things quite a bit.