HCG Vets Please Comment

Pharma / TRT
1

HCG vets please comment:

This will be the first time using HCG. Please share any expierence, lessons learned, etc. My cycle will 12 weeks and use Test 12 weeks,EQ 10 weeks, NPP 1st 5 weeks and Tren next 6. Using Letro at .625 mg ED through week 12.

Goal is to avoid testicular atrophy during cycle, libido impairment and quicker recovery over traditional PCT. Based on my research these 3 options seem to be the best way to use HCG:

Option 1
Current plan is 500 ius Saturday and Sunday, maybe even start at 250 ius and bump if needed, starting in week 3 and going through week 12, starting PCT week 13-16.

Option 2
In Chemical Muscle Enhancment(good read if you have $ 50 to invest), Arthur Rea says for longer cycles hit the HCG at 5 day intrevals 3000 ius, 2000 ius and 1500 ius with Clomid at 100 MG ED right in the middle of the cycle and then again the week before PCT starts.

Option 3
Another protocol is to administer for 10 straight days at 500 ius after your last inject, run clomid and Nolva and tradtional PCT.

2

If you want to use it at all - you have test in your cycle, so libio is not going to be an issue at all…

The protocol that makes the most sense to me is 100-200iu taken every 3rd day starting in the 3rd week of your cycle and continuing right up until you begin PCT. I’ve noticed that hcg is kind of falling out of favor these days though, unless you’re on an extremely long cycle. Using too much hcg can desensitize you to LH, which means that your natural test production may never return to pre-use levels.

3

Does every cycle require HCG? Absolutely not; It isn’t always a necessity, however the past 3 cycles that I’ve used it I’ve kept virtually every pound of muscle…coincidence? I highly doubt it. I should add that the last 3 cycles were all 10+ weeks and one consisted of the notoriously suppressive nandrolone decanoate.
The only method that I’ve used for hcg was during the final 10 days of the cycle where the esters are tapering out of your system. I ran 500iu/d.
Whether this is the most effective way to administer hcg, I can not say, as I’ve only tried it this way. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it, right:)
Bottom line is that if you’re running a long cycle (8+ weeks) or are running extremely suppressive drugs, hcg would be a good bet.

MK

4

mikekatz: were you able to better retain gains made on cycle when using HCG during PCT than when using only clomid <i’m assuming you used clomid with HCG during PCT>?

5

Thanks for responding, have you used the E3D in a cycle, what was your expierence?

I have not seen evidence that it is falling out of favor, actually it seems more readily available these days.

It seems like any cycle over 8 weeks in length should include HCG therapy at least based antecdodal evidence.

[quote]justinp wrote:
If you want to use it at all - you have test in your cycle, so libio is not going to be an issue at all…

The protocol that makes the most sense to me is 100-200iu taken every 3rd day starting in the 3rd week of your cycle and continuing right up until you begin PCT. I’ve noticed that hcg is kind of falling out of favor these days though, unless you’re on an extremely long cycle. Using too much hcg can desensitize you to LH, which means that your natural test production may never return to pre-use levels.[/quote]

6

MK thanks for the reply. I will be mostly using short acting esters in this cutting cycle. I was going to use Test/Tren E but opted for Test P, NPP, Tren A, the logest ester is EQ and I will stop that 3 weeks before PCT.

Did you expierence atrophy during your cycle?

How long before you noticed them drop if you did expierence atrophy?

Did you go Sub Q ot IM?

How did you mix with BA water and what rate did you mix, 5 ML or 10?

How did you store it, in a pin or a vial?

I plan on mixing it with B water at 5 ML in keeping it in a sterile vial and drawing it up as I need it. I am alo planning on using it IM.

The proitocol that seems to make the most sense to me is 250,500 or 1000 ius every Sat and Sun on the weekend. Why wait until you expirence atrophy, it seems if you prevent atrophy things will go better for PCT?

[quote]mikekatz wrote:
Does every cycle require HCG? Absolutely not; It isn’t always a necessity, however the past 3 cycles that I’ve used it I’ve kept virtually every pound of muscle…coincidence? I highly doubt it. I should add that the last 3 cycles were all 10+ weeks and one consisted of the notoriously suppressive nandrolone decanoate.
The only method that I’ve used for hcg was during the final 10 days of the cycle where the esters are tapering out of your system. I ran 500iu/d.
Whether this is the most effective way to administer hcg, I can not say, as I’ve only tried it this way. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it, right:)
Bottom line is that if you’re running a long cycle (8+ weeks) or are running extremely suppressive drugs, hcg would be a good bet.

MK[/quote]

7

I’m on starting week four of a test prop, drol cyle and am suprisingly noticing some atrophy. I ran the drol at 100-150 mgs a day for the first week along with a gram of test. Then cut down to more like 100-75 for the next 2 weeks with my test prop in the gram range (maybe just a little under).

I was going to make it a 6-8 weeker but might even cut it short of that. I’m not looking to shell out $ for hcg and if I can hold the 15-20 lbs I’ve gained with my clomid,nolva, igf-1 pct, I’d be happy. Plus I could recover in time for summer.

Anyone feel it’s that important to use hcg if your test usage is on the high side ( I thik a gram of prop is high and drol is definitely suppressive). My idea is to taper down the test to like 500 mgs a week and use 70 mgs of m5aa ed. to harden up.

8

[quote]Over40 wrote:
MK thanks for the reply. I will be mostly using short acting esters in this cutting cycle. I was going to use Test/Tren E but opted for Test P, NPP, Tren A, the logest ester is EQ and I will stop that 3 weeks before PCT.

Did you expierence atrophy during your cycle? YES, PROBABLY TOWARDS THE LATTER HALF.

How long before you noticed them drop if you did expierence atrophy? ABOUT 2-3 DAYS INTO HCG THERAPY, THEY STARTED TO DROP AND REGAIN SIZE.

Did you go Sub Q ot IM? SUB Q, NO WORRIES WITH HITTING ANY VEINS IN SUBCUTANEOUS LAYERS OF FAT.

How did you mix with BA water and what rate did you mix, 5 ML or 10? BACTERIOSTATIC H20. 5000IU DISSOLVED IN 5ML.

How did you store it, in a pin or a vial? A VIAL AND SHOT .5ML/D FOR 10DAYS.

I plan on mixing it with B water at 5 ML in keeping it in a sterile vial and drawing it up as I need it. I am alo planning on using it IM.

The proitocol that seems to make the most sense to me is 250,500 or 1000 ius every Sat and Sun on the weekend. Why wait until you expirence atrophy, it seems if you prevent atrophy things will go better for PCT? GIVE IT A SHOT BRO, LIKE I SAID, I’VE ONLY TRIED THE METHOD I DESCRIBED BECAUSE IT HAS WORKED 4 ME.

mikekatz wrote:
Does every cycle require HCG? Absolutely not; It isn’t always a necessity, however the past 3 cycles that I’ve used it I’ve kept virtually every pound of muscle…coincidence? I highly doubt it. I should add that the last 3 cycles were all 10+ weeks and one consisted of the notoriously suppressive nandrolone decanoate.
The only method that I’ve used for hcg was during the final 10 days of the cycle where the esters are tapering out of your system. I ran 500iu/d.
Whether this is the most effective way to administer hcg, I can not say, as I’ve only tried it this way. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it, right:)
Bottom line is that if you’re running a long cycle (8+ weeks) or are running extremely suppressive drugs, hcg would be a good bet.

MK

[/quote]

Huey,
I’m 100% confident that the inclusion of hcg is what has aided me in keeping more gains than when using clomid alone.
Over 40, my repsonse is after yours in caps.

MK