I’ve seen double standards against men quite a bit before, and I’ve also seen double standards against women quite a bit before
When it comes to what a man or woman should bring into a relationship, that is a highly individual question.
You speak of multiple sets of values for men and only four sets of values for women (in this post you mention physical shape, cooking ability, intelligence, character).
Some people can afford to be pickier than others, and some people are pickier than they can afford to be.
Since you listed out four values for women, how many values should a woman who has those four be looking for?
It’s a trick question, it’s impossible to tell from the information given
I think a big reason the women you are criticizing are getting a pass in this thread while you aren’t is because you’re in the thread.
I have a few dishes of my own that are straight up panty droppers, but considering that they were already invited to a home made dinner and responded, it was likely a foregone conclusion.
I get all of what you say, including many people in the current day. Even Phd’s are noticing some of the issues you mentioned and recent polls show young people are increasingly alone and having less sex.
I am fortunate enough to have a very traditional and nurturing wife with boundless patience for our son and I know she’ll have just as much for the other one on the way.
I really want to write more to you and @flappinit but was too busy the part two days. I had festivities for Passover and Easter. As one can see I have a robust family and social life; so I have sort of isolated myself from the social decline out there.
Ever check the book Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam? I think you’ll like it. There are other books and YT channels I want to refer you too but I don’t think it’s wise to mention them here. Is there any way to contact you?
Back in the day when people got married young, the woman took a risk by believing the man would be responsible. It of course was a risk. But people grew together. Having lived in NYC I do know of some people who still set things up like that. For most Americans it’s the reverse: a whole lot of striving and then finding someone. Or… never finding someone.
Spot on. Especially the part about taking risks. I notice that most of my friends that are happily married met their spouse in college , when they were both young and struggling with the whole college life thing. They grew together, they achieved together.
I feel bad for most American men out there, and in some ways I to feel bad for the women because they don’t really know what they are being fed. So many of my single girlfriends in their mid 30s now and no kids, holding out hope to find a decent guy they like (of course with the high standards they hold) and most of them will fail because that window is closing super fast.
As usual on weekdays I’m short on time, but this graphic shows what hypergamy does versus what the traditional institutions and social pressures did. As one can see, unrestrained hypergamy actually results in more loneliness in both sexes. Many low to mid status or less attractive men get overlooked and high status men cannot commit to all the women who want them. Eventually some hypergamous women have to “settle”, which, to me, is simply them eventually finding the right mate, because a decent, ordinary man without a hunchback can be a great dad and husband, and in many cases more so than some high status men who are scumbags.
@flappinit
To answer your question, I’ll put it very briefly here: protection of the family unit, primarily children and to set a precedent that it is more important then fulfillment of one’s carnal desires. And contradicting what Emily said, there is no intention of it being so that women can be further repressed. Rather, even though some women cheat, it would largely be put in place to protect women considering many men think they are entitled to fulfill their sexual passions, even with children at home, that they should have no sexual restraint. You should hear how some men talk about their wives who are alright women. I can go into it later. It’s appalling!
Not everyone is inclined to follow rules or moral principles without a deterrent, which I’m sure you know. Of course it comes across as Christian, but adultery and affairs have been abhorred by Jews, Muslims, and European pagans B.C. Penalties in the past were far worse than simply being fined!
no, I read those things. I just didn’t think they mattered. Nobody’s just going to take for granted that if the economy was better, you’d have a job. That’s silly. I’ve had a job for the past 15 years. The economy has gone up and down during that period. No unemployment for me during that time. If you want a job, you can find one, even if you think it’s ‘beneath you.’ And I also don’t care that you were a college graduate. Plenty of worthless college grads out there. It’s what you do AFTER college that matters. Hell, plenty of people out there without a degree that accomplish a ton. These days, an undergrad degree just doesn’t matter all that much. The meaning of a college education is not what it was 30 years ago.
side note, I’m also still convinced that you’re mid 20’s, given that this story is still fresh on your mind. If you were almost 40, that would make this story 15ish years old.
it’s still a thing. But you are what you do. Your actions define you. And your action, at the time, was not working. I personally don’t want a girl who will love me unconditionally. I want a girl who holds me accountable. I didn’t deserve an awesome girl in my early 20’s. I hadn’t earned it yet.
The type of people who you’re describing, who ignore things like employment, and are ok with ambition and dreams alone, are usually 16-19 years old. High school sweethearts with no real life or relationship experience who just get married because they think they’ve already found their soulmate. When you get a little older, have a few more relationships, and avoid the trap of marrying your first girlfriend, you wise up. You look for demonstrated, rather than expected or anticipated, value.
well, if you’re mid 30’s, as you said you are, this isn’t an unreasonable question. I bought my first house in my early 20’s. That being said, while I’m certain there are SOME women who set this as a requirement, they are the slim minority. This is an unusual anecdote. I’ve yet to encounter this inquiry in my life as a dating requirement. Living alone/without roommates is sometimes a requirement. Having a car often is. But actual home ownership? Not really. I have very successful friends who just rent, because they value liquidity. It’s often not financially intelligent to own, depending on lifestyle.
This is where we fundamentally disagree. I don’t think women get a pass the way you’re describing. I think average men date average women, above average men date above average women, and below average men date below average women. Having more to offer in a relationship gets you more in return, in some manner, in most cases. Do you disagree with that assertion?
AGAIN. If you want a smart, attractive woman with good character and a good personality, then you’d better be offering the same. Otherwise, you won’t get that. Because you don’t deserve it, and they know they can do better.
Ridiculous. They’re everywhere.
Yes. I have. I’ve been with women of basically any ethnicity/background. And yes, latin women are known for being good in bed. The reality is, some are, some aren’t. Some white, American women are great in bed, some aren’t. Some attractive girls are exactly as you describe, some are not.
I do see where this is going. You’re suggesting that it matters what a person does. You’re suggesting that people are influenced by what job you do. Considering the fact that you spend 40+ hours of every week doing it, yea, I’d say that matters. Pretty big part of who you are. People also care if you make your money in a legitimate way. Because, of course. Not sure what point you’re trying to prove. All you’re saying is, knowing facts about a person is important to determine who they are. Groundbreaking, buddy.
Oh, and thanks for not directly responding to any of my tough questions. Didn’t think you would.
So women werent repressed when traditional institutions and social pressures were in place? All of your ideas tout tradition and family values, but recall longingly “past” times when women were repressed. The graphic is especially ridiculous with its implications about what men and women want. Men are practical and not shallow, and the women will ruin our society with their selfish desires until they settle into a marriage with a low-to-mid status, less attractive man?
It’s been easier to converse with you because you seem as if you own your ideas unabashedly, instead of backpedaling and twisting their meanings. So please - whatever YT channels and books you would refer greenboy to secretly, put them here.
I was wondering why not post them here and I realized greenboy would likely be more capable of deep/sincere conversation in comfort/private, then I stopped wondering
Not to answer for brick, it’s just that your thoughts and mine matched closely enough that I thought I should share my version of extrapolation
I don’t think it’s to enhance anyone’s conversational capabilities, I think the ideas and opinions expressed here, while already extreme, are only the tip of the iceberg. The secrecy would allow them to truly open up about their ideas without having to mince words around us. That being said, I can only imagine what sort of ideas would be thrown around.
I also did a reverse image search of that “hypergamy” graphic and it came up with TRP-ish subreddits and radical websites, so it’s kind of obvious what other literature would be shared.
Were you in or coming out of college during that time? It was brutal for a lot of graduates. This has been talked about all over the media as the “lost” generation where buying a house, having a savings, etc is almost nonexistent for the gen.
But then you come to Tnation and that’s all bullshit lol and everyone is doing super well and have been doing super well since they came out of the womb lol. Like, this is when I can’t take half of you guys serious.
When I came out of college most of the graduates were lucky to land a decent job at 40k or more, a few years prior you could have came out making 50,60,70, some even 80 at the graduate degree level. That was absolutely unheard of for most college graduates during the economic crises. But you know I don’t even want to get into this further because it is a waste of time.
I already gave you my age group, you choose to believe what you want.
I actually feel bad for people like this, people like you. This is part of the problem a lot of Americans have I think and why they are never satisfied, and constantly burdened with anxiety and stress. When you open up insta, or facebook, and you are bombarded by people much like yourself, and others here in this thread with the “I did it, I’m successful, look at my life. You need to better yourself! you have no value! present more value!”
My god, what a horrible why to constantly be. We’re all Patrick Bateman’s now.
No buddy, it’s not reasonable. This is a cultural thing. In the states a common phrase is “what’s your story” you’d never say that to a fucking European. No one says that, it’s rude.
It’s also rude in a lot of Latin American countries to say “so what do you do” upon meeting someone. First, you get to KNOW someone before you get into such questions. The first thing a girl says to you here is “so what do you do” like they will already formulate opinions of you immediately with 1 question. That is fucking wrong, maybe you do not think so, but I do.
This is why I think a lot of you guys have proven exactly what I’ve been saying in here this entire time. And I feel bad for most of you men in here.
All this lecturing you do maybe you should broaden yourself a bit.
I thought we fundamentally disagreed about everything? And no I do not agree with that assertion. I am beginning to notice average men date below average women. I’m seeing this a lot lately.
I have no problem in saying exactly what I think. There is no “tip of the iceberg” this is already the iceberg. What else do you want to know? Do you think I believe women shouldn’t have rights or something?
