[quote]borrek wrote:
The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.
They have their place, but like all things, can be abused[/quote]
Bunk! People that commit crimes don’t care about the feel-good laws you write to punish them more. Most of them think they are not going to get caught in the first place.
The more I’ve seen hate crimes discussed here, the more persuaded I’ve become that they don’t accomplish much, and in fact can lead to unjust sentences. I haven’t seen any actual data on this, but if hate crimes legislation doesn’t reduce hate crimes any more than if the special legislation didn’t exist, I see no reason for having it in the first place.
[quote]forlife wrote:
The more I’ve seen hate crimes discussed here, the more persuaded I’ve become that they don’t accomplish much, and in fact can lead to unjust sentences. I haven’t seen any actual data on this, but if hate crimes legislation doesn’t reduce hate crimes any more than if the special legislation didn’t exist, I see no reason for having it in the first place.[/quote]
Oh, the politicians would disagree with you because this legislation would give them more of our money to spend.
The problem is politicians cannot just take our money they have to create neat, little, feel good programs to make it seem justifiable. The result is always the same: more hungry pigs waiting to feed at the trough.
[quote]forlife wrote:
The more I’ve seen hate crimes discussed here, the more persuaded I’ve become that they don’t accomplish much, and in fact can lead to unjust sentences. I haven’t seen any actual data on this, but if hate crimes legislation doesn’t reduce hate crimes any more than if the special legislation didn’t exist, I see no reason for having it in the first place.[/quote]
Agreed, crimes are already bad,ie, hateful. I’m sure you read my accounting of one from my town. these facts don’t get into the paper. they are often not allowed at trial, but to me they might have relevance in whether it was a hate crime, or just a crime.
Maybe the youths in question knew this girl was banging the older guy and that’s why they made a comment. I personally hate guys preying on underage girls. If I beat him up while screaming, take that you scumbag perv spic, is it hateful? Or am I hating on the scumbag part. does the first two words take precedence over the third, or does the fact that I said spic while I’m made in any way, make this a hate crime?
See how silly it is. I should be tried if I’m guilty for assault. not for my hate, if it even exists.
Resurrecting this, because I’ve been wondering about a possible use of hate crime laws. Are the perpetrators of hate crime hoaxes able to be charged with a hate crime? I can’t see why not, as the premeditated goal of such things is to target another race with a false criminal accusation.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Resurrecting this, because I’ve been wondering about a possible use of hate crime laws. Are the perpetrators of hate crime hoaxes able to be charged with a hate crime? I can’t see why not, as the premeditated goal of such things is to target another race with a false criminal accusation.[/quote]
are you getting at libel/slander and tagging on a hate crime charge?
Not too sure what you mean by hate crime hoax, example?
Just some guy accusing someone else for a crime because they don’t like that person’s race?
[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Resurrecting this, because I’ve been wondering about a possible use of hate crime laws. Are the perpetrators of hate crime hoaxes able to be charged with a hate crime? I can’t see why not, as the premeditated goal of such things is to target another race with a false criminal accusation.
are you getting at libel/slander and tagging on a hate crime charge?
Not too sure what you mean by hate crime hoax, example?
Just some guy accusing someone else for a crime because they don’t like that person’s race?[/quote]
Say a person reports that their property has been vandalized with grafitti, much of which is racist in nature. Perhaps, the resident even says he saw a couple “yoots” of another race hanging around late last night. Upon investigation, the police realize the crime is actually a hoax. Self-inflicted. Since it’s a crime to make a false report like this, and in doing so may have heightened racial tensions, not to mention the targeting of another race with false accusations, is this hate crime hoax, a hate crime? If not, for what possible reason?
Another example. Could the Duke players potentially turn around seek some kind of hate crime charge against their accuser?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Another example. Could the Duke players potentially turn around seek some kind of hate crime charge against their accuser?[/quote]
I got called a Nazi for asking this exact question once. It was, frankly, hilarious.
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Another example. Could the Duke players potentially turn around seek some kind of hate crime charge against their accuser?
I got called a Nazi for asking this exact question once. It was, frankly, hilarious.[/quote]
I like Nazi.
That gives me the opportunity to point out that not only Nazis were socialists but that fascists were Marxists too and that Roosevelt a social democrat actually modeled his system after Mussolini, a fascist.
Somehow they never seem to be able to tell me where exactly I fit in there.
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Another example. Could the Duke players potentially turn around seek some kind of hate crime charge against their accuser?
I got called a Nazi for asking this exact question once. It was, frankly, hilarious.[/quote]
If there’s one thing I hate more than today’s wannabe Nazis, it’s today’s wannabe citizen Nazi-Hunter.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Say a person reports that their property has been vandalized with grafitti, much of which is racist in nature. Perhaps, the resident even says he saw a couple “yoots” of another race hanging around late last night. Upon investigation, the police realize the crime is actually a hoax. Self-inflicted. Since it’s a crime to make a false report like this, and in doing so may have heightened racial tensions, not to mention the targeting of another race with false accusations, is this hate crime hoax, a hate crime? If not, for what possible reason?
[/quote]
This happened in my town. Someone wrote racial grafiti on a house threatening the black occupant. The guy moved because of this. Later, it was discovered he wrote the grafiti himself cause he wanted out of his lease.
It kind of sucked because it made the white people of the neighborhood where he lived look like racists.
[quote]orion wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Another example. Could the Duke players potentially turn around seek some kind of hate crime charge against their accuser?
I got called a Nazi for asking this exact question once. It was, frankly, hilarious.
I like Nazi.
That gives me the opportunity to point out that not only Nazis were socialists but that fascists were Marxists too and that Roosevelt a social democrat actually modeled his system after Mussolini, a fascist.
Somehow they never seem to be able to tell me where exactly I fit in there.
[/quote]
Mussolini had nothing on Woodrow Wilson. He was the consummate Liberal Progressive. If you study the history of the time it appears there was little difference between Mussolini’s Italy and Wilson’s administrative rule.
[quote]borrek wrote:
The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.
They have their place, but like all things, can be abused[/quote]
no they don’t, suppose I get into fight with a black man and in the heat of the moment, I call him a n----r, they would consider that a hate crime, but if I don’t its plain assault. see how thin then the line between a crime and hate crime can be
[quote]Gregus wrote:
borrek wrote:
The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.
They have their place, but like all things, can be abused
What about some of he radical black groups that ritualistically murder whites, but it does not make national news. Will they and do they get hit with a hate crime also? Or is it just straight murder for them?
[/quote]
Are you implying that theres crime legisltation that disporportionately targets one ethinic group?
[quote]kodiak82 wrote:
borrek wrote:
The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.
They have their place, but like all things, can be abused
no they don’t, suppose I get into fight with a black man and in the heat of the moment, I call him a n----r, they would consider that a hate crime, but if I don’t its plain assault. see how thin then the line between a crime and hate crime can be [/quote]
If you were asaulted and said that while defending yourself I think it would be self defense,but if you walked up, punched him in the face and then called him a n----r then yes I think it should be a hete crime.
[quote]kodiak82 wrote:
borrek wrote:
The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.
They have their place, but like all things, can be abused
no they don’t, suppose I get into fight with a black man and in the heat of the moment, I call him a n----r, they would consider that a hate crime, but if I don’t its plain assault. see how thin then the line between a crime and hate crime can be [/quote]
If you were asaulted and said that while defending yourself I think it would be self defense,but if you walked up, punched him in the face and then called him a n----r then yes I think it should be a hete crime.
I think racially motivated violence deserves to be punished more harshly.
Wrong, because it is almost impossible to discern if it was racially motivated and these laws are disproportionately leveled against white on minority, not the other way around. Their is much greater black on white crime by numbers and much more by% but you seldom see hate crime legislation employed in these situations.
All they are a whiny give me another break because I’m a minority. You sentence according to crime as severely as allowed by law.
[quote]erik206 wrote:
Gregus wrote:
borrek wrote:
The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.
They have their place, but like all things, can be abused
What about some of he radical black groups that ritualistically murder whites, but it does not make national news. Will they and do they get hit with a hate crime also? Or is it just straight murder for them?
Are you implying that theres crime legisltation that disporportionately targets one ethinic group?[/quote]
Yes, black on white crime is a lot higher than the reverse, and if you account for % of population, it’s even higher. But hate crimes are called for a low more in white on black crime.