I think this gets overlooked a lot. You know how many times in my life I’ve heard “damnit you’re just like your father”? Certain traits are absolutely born into people. Rebellion and submissiveness included.
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I think the wokeness aspect is merely a downstream symptom of cultural changes that happened decades ago. T3hPwnisher had a lot of good stuff to contribute on that further back in the thread. Sexual revolution.
I also unironically posted Ted Kaczynski’s manifesto. Industrial revolution.
These are two huge driving forces that take men out of the roles they’ve evolved to fill. And over time they’ve only sped up and changed more rapidly.
By and large what would you say those roles are? And how have those 2 things taken men out of them? (sorry if this was covered in depth earlier, I did read a lot of this thread but not all 900+ posts). I cant say I see how men cant be “men” with those 2 things youve mentioned having taken place, but Im here to learn
Just trying to get a sense of where you are coming from on these topics
It’s not that men can’t “be men” in the modern world, but we’re driving at why so many feel unsatisfied to the point they consider suicide.
I’ll respond with more detailed thoughts when I get a sec.
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Physical, social and mental health metrics all prove this is false.
It’s funny to me that those who pretend to not care what others think, tend to be the ones who care the most about what others think.
“Look at me, I am a real man”
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I was going to type up a lengthy response about male roles and how we’ve evolved to fight our environment to achieve a sense of satisfaction and we no longer do that in the modern world except as a hobby, buuuuuut I like this meme instead
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Just posted this on Twitter, what do ya’ll think.
I’ve been thinking about this post and subsequent responses to it for the last few days and thought I’d add my $0.02. For perspective, I’m closing in on 40, married for 16 years, have a couple kids, and have been climbing the corporate ladder for quite some time now. I also feel lonely at times and struggled when I left the military so hopefully my words will be helpful to someone.
I think a lot of the loneliness men feel stems from how we as men approach life. For many men, maybe most, we’ve bought into the idea that the purpose of life is happiness so we pursue moments of bliss that inevitably fade leaving us feeling empty.
Happiness is a fickle emotion. It’s momentary, hard to quantify, subjective, and easily taken from us. Even the most stoic of men can’t withstand the negativity of the world forever.
I think men can achieve contentment, friendship, intimacy, and, yes, even happiness if we pursue different goals.
I believe most men need to shift away from the pursuit of happiness to the pursuit of betterment and service. We should strive to be better than our former self and to serve others. By pursuing these two things we can find meaning, purpose, and contentment as well as overcome loneliness.
The pursuit of betterment doesn’t need to be life-changing. It can be as simple as learning a new skill. For example, I like to draw even though I’m not particularly good at it. One thing I try to do is to watch videos on ways to get better. Then I practice. When a new piece of art looks better (to me anyway) I feel a sense of achievement.
Another area of betterment perfectly suited for men is physical improvement and that too does not need to be complicated. Drop and do as many push-ups as you can. Maybe you only did 10. Maybe you had to start from your knees. That’s irrelevant.
Make it your goal to improve on whatever you did. Make it your goal to do 15 by the end of the week. It’s a measurable and achievable goal worth pursing. Once you’ve achieve it, and you absolutely can, build on that success. The possibilities are endless, but the key is to ensure the goal is measurable and achievable.
The point isn’t just to get better. The point is the active pursuit of better and along the way you’ll not only improve, but it’ll improve your opinion of yourself. Do this for long enough and you won’t even recognize your former self. Take your time and enjoy the process.
The second thing is service to others. Service can be as simple as teaching your son how to tie his shoes. It can be volunteering at a local food drive. It can be working with veterans or habitat for humanity. Service to others is a worthwhile pursuit that can give you purpose.
There are few things worse for a man’s mental state than a lack of purpose and many of us don’t find purpose in the pursuit of a career or money. Those are fine goals for some, but many of us need something else.
Fatherhood is a great opportunity for service, but it’s certainly not the only one nor is it for everyone. Volunteering at a boys and girls club or coaching are also great pursuits as are the others I mentioned above.
The point is to shift your focus off yourself and onto others. By doing this, you not only help someone that may not have anyone else to help them, but you also open yourself up to real connections, life-long friendships, and a purpose worthy of pursuit.
For those that read this far, thank you for stopping by and I hope this helps you. Don’t be so hard on yourself. You matter.
-Chris
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I have always liked the word ‘fulfillment’ over the word ‘happiness’.
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Saw that the other day. Not sure where a version absent of Shapiro’s commentary is. I think it comes from an interview/podcast Shia did with Jon Bernthal.
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I prefer spite. There are several graves I’m planning to dance on.
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This has definitely given me new life in this realm. My priorities are completely different now after having children.
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It’s weird how you can be a competitive person who wants to do better than others yet, when it comes to your children, you want them to outdo you.
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100%.
I want better for them in all things. I love them unconditionally completely.
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Your kids will be VERY successful. Their father is very educated and entrepreneurial. Keep being a great dad Bauber.
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Brutal.
- About 63 percent of 18 to 29-year-old men reported being alone in 2022, a 12 percent increase from 2019
- Only 34 percent of women in the same age group reported being single, a small 2 percent rise from the pre-pandemic era”
I wonder if this is unique to the US. It’s more common here for young men to be out of the house at an early age while in other countries they live at home longer. At least that gives the person a support system and a feeling of being part of something.
I also wonder what role the rise in single mothers has played in this. Not just for sons but daughters as well.
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Single mothers are awful for a child’s development. Not even an argument
I fixed it for you.
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Women chose them. And this is the problem with single mothers; they choose the worst partners, have no concept of reality or the future, have no sense of accountability, have low intelligence, poor impulse control, are uneducated, etc. You can also add in that a good number suffer from mental and emotional issues as well as, to use the current language, trauma.
I would exclude a widow or divorcée from this generalization as they didn’t set out with the intention of being single mothers.
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But how does this add up? Assuming that neither polygamy nor homosexuality nor gender demographics account for more than a small part of that discrepancy, the only way this can be true is if a similar but reverse discrepancy is present in.a different age group and that a lot of people are dating outside of their age group.
Put another way, this just means that there are a bunch of 18-29 year old women that are in relationships with older men.
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