I completely agree.
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Women have been equal to men since the civil rights movement… so 60+ years.
What more empowerment do women need that they do not already have? Furthermore, where do you think this ‘power’ comes from and from whom is it being taken from?
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Nah just feminazis because they’re negative and hate men. We can appreciate Female empowerment when it comes to inspiring women to pursue a variety of careers other than ones that seem “women-like”. I’m sure there’s other positive outcomes from female empowerment as well.
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The bigger issue is that the trans narrative is part of a larger narrative that is all about erasing Western culture, history and civilization in order to create some sort of social and cultural reset. Since Western civilization is seen as driven by men, specifically white/European men, it makes sense from those who see themselves as not only not a part of that civilization but oppressed by that civilization, to go after the drivers of that civilization. It’s the old war on old dead white men.
I don’t think it’s that simple. Financial issues are behind most divorces. Also, it’s relatively easy to get a divorce in the US so people enter marriages with the mindset that if it doesn’t work out, divorce is always an option.
Weak men? Men hold most positions of power in corporate America and in politics. Look at Bud Lite; men put a woman in charge, because they were thinking about money, not girl power or trans rights. Who stood up and pushed back hard enough to significantly affect Budweiser financially? Men. It’s about the men in power putting profits ahead of cultural values. None of the men in DC, regardless of party affiliation, care about Western culture as much as they care about capitalism. I mean, they think capitalism is another term for Western culture.
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What one author pointed out to me, and what I’ve noticed in life and on here, is that although there has always been male competition, in a sexually “liberated” scene, the competition is greatly exaggerated. Hence I’ve said some, maybe many, men treat other men like crap these days. There’s more of a scramble to get to the top of the heap versus accepting many of them are ordinary and will be ordinary, and that there’s nothing wrong with that. That’s why there are so many talking heads producing content about being multimillionaires with harems yachting in the Caribbean instead of telling men to get professions or trades that suit them (some of which earn decent or even a lot of money).
It’s also likely why some literally get angry or annoyed when reminded of the issues we discuss here.
I remember two posters dismissing my recommendation for the book The Boy Crisis: Why Our Boys are Struggling and What We Can Do About It by Dr. Warren Farrell, a political scientist who’s done some talks with Jordan Peterson. I actually bought it shortly after my son was born.
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And if a young man believes he can’t or won’t achieve that type of success, you can see why he would check out.
There is also this idea that in order to get the “top” women, you need to be a top man. I would ask what makes her this high value woman? If it’s looks, then there are plenty of “ordinary” women who are just as good looking, sometimes more so, than some Hollywood, lab and surgery created, celebrities.
I honestly think these men are not ultimately trying to impress women as much as they are trying to impress other men. And that’s a sign of having a poor father because that approach is all about trying to get the male attention and validation one didn’t get from their father. It’s about not being taught by a man what it means to be a man. I could never do what Tate does because I would be embarrassed if my father found out. I’d be embarrassed if my sister found out.
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I think perhaps a lot of the men trying to be “top” men are not so much going for quality. They are looking for decent quality but lots of quantity. Lots of attention. Validation from women, which will also gain the respect of some men.
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I think this too, this constant need for validation from women, has been greatly exaggerated from Generation X to the present day. I highly doubt our grandfathers were this hung up on what women thought of them. As I’ve said several times on these forums, I have long suspected this stems from the matriarchal lifeline so many boys have gone through for several decades. They are, naturally, cared for the most by their mommies in their single-digit years, they go to school for a minimum of thirteen years (considerably more if higher education is had) with nearly all female teachers, and they grew up in single-mother or matriarchal households. Nearly all their validation and provision for them came from women by the time they’re through puberty. But, as Dr. Glover put it in an interview with Richard Cooper, considering women’s fickleness, being dependent upon their validation to remind a man he’s an OK guy is like relying on the weather! And his thought on this over-reliance is in synch with my suspicion. Hence, I’ve said many men seem to be suffering from Stockholm syndrome.
When I was younger, I too, had a sense that if I was not liked by girls/women (I say women because I don’t consider females or males who do big-girl and big-boy things to be kids anymore), something was wrong with me, both for the aforementioned explanation and because by the Gen X era, sex had become a currency, something that brought the social proof of other men, as you’ve spoken of here. So, if a guy wasn’t constantly screwing women, he wasn’t kewl.
Granted if a man has no validation from women at all, he will likely be one angry SOB. As I’ve said, I will always remember a line my retired psychologist told me when I was much younger, “You will be one of the most miserable men on the planet if you don’t find a woman.” But to constantly rely on what women are thinking of him is a recipe for disappointment and reduced quality of life. Though I am married, I am glad as a grown man that I am ridden of the notion that such validation makes the man or that men constantly need “girlfriends”. I cannot even think of one reason I’d want to have a so-called girlfriend who I wasn’t interested in marrying and having kids with if I were a single man in the current day.
Men are supposed to make themselves and each other, I believe.
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@mnben87 do you have any thoughts on where this neediness comes from?
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I agree with some of your points and partially agree with others. I think men on average place a high amount of value on validation from women. I am not sure if placing that high value is appropriate or not. I think there are good arguments to be made on how much it should matter.
From an evolutionary perspective, producing children is a metric of how successful one is. We (along with animals) have a strong drive to have sex because of this importance. Being rejected by a woman from this perspective can be equated to her not thinking you are of enough value. Validation from women doesn’t have to be in the form of sex. Flirty behavior as an example from a woman could be seen as (and I think correctly) her giving you approval that you as a man are worthy to mate with.
I think part of the explanation of why men on average highly value validation from women is what you mentioned above about children at home and school being mostly raised by women. I don’t think that is all of it though. I think a larger part of it is just our biologic drive to mate, and how important that is on our scale of importance (right under survival as an individual).
I think our grandfathers also valued it highly, but perhaps not quite as much (which would be explained the matriarchal upbringing). I don’t think James Bond would have been such a popular movie franchise in the 60s if our grandfathers didn’t see value in validation from women.
I do think it can be overvalued and potentially harmful though. As you said in you post, it can be like the weather. Relying upon validation from women as a metric of worth is a roller coaster experience. At least for me, the feelings of worthiness I get from validation from women don’t last long. I could be feeling really good about myself if I had a really good experience with a woman (not talking about sex here, more like strong flirting), but the next day I still question if I am good enough.
This may seem silly coming from a guy in my position (married to an attractive woman), but it is tough for me to get around it. I don’t think I am a minority. I think lots of men have these feelings even while being in a committed relationship. Perhaps earlier on, the woman initiated sex fairly often, and sex when the woman wants it is better IME. After a few years, that usually doesn’t happen or not nearly as often (and I think this is more common that not), and it is the guy doing so. This can be pretty damaging to a guy’s self esteem. If it gets to the point where the guy has to beg for sex from his woman, I can’t see that guy having a healthy self image. When it gets this bad (and usually at this point the woman is more difficult on the guy in other aspects of domestic living too), we usually see guys behavior get bad. They maybe start acting infantile around their woman, they maybe get aggressive or try to be dominant over other men, they perhaps cheat or try to cheat. These are things that are being done because they have a low opinion of themselves and want to change that opinion. This is basically where placing too high of value on validation from women goes wrong IMO.
I’d say the correction for these issues is that women in relationships need to appreciate and be affectionate to their men. However, I don’t think faking it on the woman’s side will work. So then I think it falls on men to do their best to maintain their woman being attracted to them. This also won’t work all the time. Men desiring to be valued and sexually desired by their women isn’t all at the same level I don’t think. Some desire more, some less. A guy that strongly desires being valued and desired by his woman may have a tough time getting all of that from his woman even if she is doing pretty well.
IDK, just my thought ramblings on the matter.
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Also,
Recession is in full swing and joblessness is a real thing. I think that impacts ALOT of men and their mental condition.
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It is a negative, if the females also don’t assume all the responsibilities and negatives that come with empowerment.
Most females I see want the empowerment with NONE of the responsibilities / negatives.
Life doesn’t work that way.
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A problem is that women are being told what they should want by nth wave feminists, the wokeists, lesbians and transgenders, most of whom are childless.
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I agree with this.
I agree that women should not be shamed for wanting a more traditional lifestyle. I see a lot of anti-men/anti- children content on social media and it frankly disgusts me.
I also think that it shouldn’t be assumed that women who do not want children were influenced by woke/feminist culture.
For me, I observed what the women around me have experienced and see that it’s not for me as someone who values personal accomplishment, cannot tolerate sleep deprivation, is asexual and has difficulty with emotional attachment
I have friends who are not opposed to having kids, but don’t want to (for now) because they don’t feel like they can afford to devote the time and financial resources necessary to give a kid the greatest chance of success.
In a more extreme case, one of my friends is in a similar situation as @unreal24278. She has several debilitating autoimmune conditions. And recognises that even if she doesn’t end up passing one or more to a future child, she’d not be able to take care of them.
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I actually know a good hand full of people who had such shitty, dysfunctional upbringing that they refuse to have kids.
Almost a patent answer from male & females alike is “Nope. No way. If theres even a chance in hell that they will experience what I did, then I won’t do it.”.
Generational effect of drugs/alcoholism. Everybody says “The buck stops here” but there are two main ways of doing it.
Either having kids and righting the ship, making sure they’re raised well and lovingly, or simply not having any.
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That is another level of extreme
I’m very very fortunate to not have experienced any sort of abuse/addiction I the family or personally know anyone that has
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Yeah, the “extreme case” part just brought that to the forefront of my mind.
Not implying that there’s any dysfunction in your lineage.
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Generations of women have been duped into believing the “right time” myth. They spend their peak child bearing years in college, then the years following realizing they don’t want a career since it’s not fulfilling and would rather start a family. A few more years finding the right guy, getting married and settling down, ooops your 40. The right time comes and goes in the blink of an eye.
I do find it fascinating how much has changed in so little time. My one grandmother had 10, the other had 7 and 2 died as infants. I’ve got two and I can barely keep it together, lol.
And I’m not judging here, I fall into this too. We’ve been lied to about how we should find happiness. By the time most of us realize it, we’re middle aged.
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3 ingredients to happiness.
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Fast.
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Easy.
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Free!
There you go man. Happiness.
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Lol!
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