Thanks for saying this. What I was going to say was far less nice.
1 Like
May because we are more pressured to compete by having good careers, being strong men, pick up women, assault and humiliate other men, demean each other using financial power and status, etc.
Women have more value just because they born with an vagina than us. We are always in conflict against each other. In my opinion the worst enemy of men are men. This can explain.
We’re pressured to do these things?
Right. Women are born, men are made.
4 Likes
The increase in male suicide and anti-social behavior over the past century, particularly since the 1980’s, is because of:
- social atomization (by causes that cannot be discussed here)
- deindustrialization
- breakdown of social institutions (including education, family courts, family unit, and the legal system)
- widespread misandry
3 Likes
My therapist told me that it is when people feel like they are a burden to those around them that they become suicidal.
The reason I was talking to a therapist in the first place was because I felt like a useless burden to those around me…
It really is extremely difficult to find people to talk about the difficulties one may experience. Even surrounded by people who say that they’re “there for you” , as Brand spoke of in recovery. I found a whole lot of ego protection, minimizing and invalidation, and a lot of woulda/shoulda/coulda when my chips were down and I turned to people I trusted for help.
9 Likes
…
*no one*
…
Point and case.
2 Likes
I’ll add that there is some truth here. Men have always competed with each other, but what made the West great was cooperation, fairness, and high trust in a hierarchical and meritocratic system. This cannot be underestimated. It is self evident, and if we look at places in which men actually are in constant conflict with one another, there is no reciprocity, trust, or respect, and the only way to get ahead is by way of one’s last name, we see places we don’t want to live in.
Unfortunately we are becoming a low-trust society in which men actually do appear not to give a shit about one another and some even take pleasure in others’ misfortune.
Part of this exaggerated competition is a free-for-all sexual market and gynocentric environment. Whereas in a sexually-regulated system most men, that includes ordinary men, would have stakes in the future by way of marriage (forming family and community alliances) and having children and be focused on all that entails, they are instead busy in exaggerated competition with one another to get to the top of the heap to deal with the inflated hypergamy that results from such a shit show. One can think that the sexual market is a peripheral issue in male disenfranchisement, but it is not at all.
One can also see that there are almost no exclusively-male spaces anymore and it seems that most wouldn’t even want it from this inflated fixation on women. Then people scratch their heads about what to do about the lack of social support and friends men have these days.
3 Likes
While it’s true that men are generally valued for what they can do and provide, it’s also true that most men accept this role. And when we feel like we are doing okay at it and are respected and valued for it, we are happy to keep doing it. For thousands of years, men have been expected to provide for and protect their families.
Men start to have trouble when either they feel that they aren’t doing a good job providing for and protecting their families or when they don’t feel like they are being valued for providing and protecting. And, for the most part, those are actually the same thing. Men are programmed to believe that they should provide and protect and that they will be valued for it. If they aren’t valued for it, they often assume that they aren’t doing a good job providing and protecting.
6 Likes
I be should have in a previous post linked this exhaustive article on male disenfranchisement that I read years ago and linked several times through the years, though some were not fond of it.
Covered: dissolution of social institutions, misandry, family breakdown.
Quote:
“ Suicide rates of men undergoing divorce run as high as 20%, and all of us know a man who either committed suicide, or admits seriously considering it during the dehumanization he faced even though he wanted to preserve the union.”
Quote:
“Now, they tirelessly and ruthlessly lobby for changes in legislation that are blatantly discriminatory against men (not to mention unconstitutional and downright cruel). Not satisfied with that, they continue to lobby for social programs designed to devalue the roles of husbands and fathers, replacing them with taxpayer-funded handouts.”
3 Likes
Great freaking post! Unfortunately many men are not even getting into positions for provision.
1 Like
This is what a man is.
Somebody who will take all the abuse, hard times, punishment, unappreciation, etc. to provide for others no matter what the cost to himself.
It isn’t all glory and ruling with an iron fist. It is literally putting those you love before everything - even yourself. It can be a thankless job at times, but one that is NECESSARY for society and the world to continue to function.
If I can meet the end of my road having done everything possible for my children and spouse to live a good life and for my children to be raised properly to carry on and do the same for their children and feel loved, nothing else matters.
My purpose has been completed and I will die content.
6 Likes
I view things this way as well. BUT I can almost guarentee you that 1/5th of men who are suiciding during divorces felt exactly this way. The problem is that men will fulfill this role with vigor, but women won’t stay by their man when he cannot - and often will stray for someone who gives her tingles even if he is fulfilling this role.
A lot of the issue is that men never take a moment to care for their own needs. Should your family’s needs come before yours? Probably/maybe. But airlines always say “put your mask on first, then your child’s” because you both being dead does no one any favors.
If everything you do is for your wife and children, what do you she leaves and takes your children? Sounds like about 20% of men already know the answer here.
EDIT:
This probably goes without saying, but I’m not speaking about your wife here, just hypothetical.
We need to raise stronger Husbands and better Wives.
3 Likes
This is why picking a mate is so important.
Not that even the best mate can’t turn bad or other circumstances.
Not everything I do is for them - I still take time for my hobbies and myself, BUT they come first in my priorities.
I am well established enough and have enough money that my wife could never take my kids from me even if she were to try. I know not all men are in that situation or have those resources.
My biggest fear in life is somebody harming my children / wife. I would make Ted Bundy look like a care bear in my retaliation.
Agreed.
I believe it starts with the men.
Then divorce shouldn’t matter.
A quote from one of my favorite shows of all time - Breaking Bad.
“When you have children, you always have family. They will always be your priority, your responsibility. And a man, a man provides. And he does it even when he’s not appreciated, or respected, or even loved. He simply bears out, and he does it.” – Gus Fring
2 Likes
I vividly remember that scene. It hit home with me.
2 Likes
I think this is because many Americans lack much connection to a culture, and probably also because a growing number are lacking a connection to any kind of faith. Generally, those are things have helped humans form their sense of identity.
I think this ties into my previous sentences. I see exclusively-male spaces pretty much only in places where culture and faith are big parts of people’s lives. But how many people even want those things? I feel like at least half of the men posting in this thread have either claimed to be atheists or even mocked those who have religious faith/spiritual beliefs. It’s going to be hard to want things to improve when you reject half of the factors that once made the “old ways” work in the first place.
2 Likes
When one is in a hole, he’s supposed to her out, right? Did ya ever notice when Americans are in a hole, they keep digging?
1 Like
Is the divorce causing the suicides or are the reasons behind the suicides causing the divorce?
2 Likes
Thats a good question.
Someone that is in a deep depression can be very hard to live with, and will do things to drive people away.
1 Like
Isn’t it clear from the quotes written?
Did you read the article?
I shall post this again. Only the first ten minutes are necessary for this context.
To continue, from the video, this is what the family courts can and have done to some men:
Punish them for legal things they do in private life
Acquire power to dissolve marriage without consent or grounds
Evict them from their homes
Seize control of their children
Restrict their movements
Raid their bank accounts
Confiscate houses
Extract payments for unrequested services
Garnish wages
Deny them passports and driving permits
Seize professional licenses
Incarcerate without trial and record
Hence the suicides during divorce and after discussed here. I consider seizing of children the most egregious of all, although all the above can ruin a man’s life. And if I recall correctly there have been attempts at murdering family-court judges, which is unsurprising. @Bauber you’re a lawyer, right? Do you have any insight on this stuff?
1 Like